Since we decided to get offtopic, and since it wasn't posted as a poll anyway... i figured I'd do him a favor. Nice to know the thread merge i wrote works with polls too. Cool.

Poll question: TheOctane's HRC or STAR poll - Which do you use?

Poll result (25 votes) HRC (15 votes) Vote STAR (10 votes) Vote

Please do not get into a debate about each...i simply want to see how many people use a HRC turbo vs how many use a STAR turbo..

dude, i asked this same question 4 years ago. I said don't get in a debate, blah, blah, blah. So i can almost guarantee you that if you search you will find it.

A thread with an actual POLL section to vote on would be great....yeah....

if you wanted just a poll you probably should have just posted a poll, not an actual post. But i'm guessing its a 3:2 ratio with HRC being 3 if not greater

Originally posted by optimuspeterson
if you wanted just a poll you probably should have just posted a poll, not an actual post. But i'm guessing its a 3:2 ratio with HRC being 3 if not greater

Hmmm... maybe. or maybe like a 6:4 ratio or even a 12:8 with HRC being on top.

Do more people only like HRC cause of the spooling time? Isnt the t03/4 ballbearing almost as fast but has more power? BUMP

I think it is because there is actually a company behind HRC, that most people go with the HRC kit. I know I did.

What about a custom kit? I have the HRC manifold and turbo, but the rest is mine. Of course, as many people that have to modify the shit out of their HRC kit, I might as well call it the HRC kit. :shrug

Originally posted by jsupetran
I think it is because there is actually a company behind HRC, that most people go with the HRC kit. I know I did.

Well how bad is the STAR at customer service? I mean will i need to be calling either company that badly? I want the power of the t03/4 ball bearing, if i need the tech support then you all are gonna make my mind explode.

i only went with STAR because the customer service at HRC sucked ass. Must have been the whole girl thing calling to get info on their kits n what not. I really wanted a Hahn's, but oh well. Got a STAR stg 1 and upgraded from there, so it kinda is a custom kit imo.

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by optimuspeterson if you wanted just a poll you probably should have just posted a poll, not an actual post. But i'm guessing its a 3:2 ratio with HRC being 3 if not greater

Hmmm... maybe. or maybe like a 6:4 ratio or even a 12:8 with HRC being on top.

LOL your ratios are amusing :twitch

Originally posted by ez

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by optimuspeterson if you wanted just a poll you probably should have just posted a poll, not an actual post. But i'm guessing its a 3:2 ratio with HRC being 3 if not greater

Hmmm... maybe. or maybe like a 6:4 ratio or even a 12:8 with HRC being on top.

LOL your ratios are amusing :twitch

LOL yeah they're the same thing.

Both kits suck in their own way. Both kits come with a crappy fuel system. The portfuler is a nice improvement, but no one is developing the STAR kit anymore, so it's kind of like apples and oranges there.

The external wastegate design of the STAR kit is nice. It also has a better turbo. The 16G is nice if you drive like a normal person and never go above 4000 RPM's. I should have bought a STAR kit because all of that stuff that you bolt onto the exhaust side of the cylinder head is the stuff that you will keep for the longest when you buy a turbo kit.

I agree with ner947, but I wish you could combine both kits or build a custom one with a click of a mouse....The whole problem with our cars is the lack of engine management and the stupid PCM that is located in the engine bay..

If we could upgrade our PCM/ECU without having to custom wire everything that would be great... I'm in the process of trying to have a custom harness mass produced that would plug in from our harness to another lead into the passenger compartment that would plug into a AEM EMS box....

Long story short... Pieces from both turbo kits would build the best...

I bought the Hahn 2 and I ended up with sooo many extra parts that I could almost build another kit..

These are my negative/positive opinons on the Hahn Stage 2 with FMIC and what I have heard from others with the STAR kit

Downpipe flange is garbage , get rid of the whole thing and have a real 3" downpipe built. When I used the stupid piece from the Hahn kit, It kept blowing off, what a cheap design. I heard the downpipe from STAR doesn't have a flex section, not good but at least it is 2.5" and is one piece.

Exhaust Manifold: both seem to be the same log style

Turbo: STAR is better, unless you get a 20G/25G with your kit..?

Intercooler: IMO I think Hahn's FMIC is better, don't even think about SMIC

BOV: I ended up buying my own.. extra parts once again, STAR is better

Fuel system: Cartech is crap... All I have to say for that.

Wastegate: Not sure on this one, external wastegate is a better setup for higher horsepower cars, if you are serious though you would upgrade to a Tial or a HKS. Internal wastegate has less parts, cheaper, etc..

I think thats about it, I wish I could go look at my car to check but its been down for months now and is still at the dyno shop, thanks to our great computer system in the 420a..

Does the HRC Stage II have an option for an FMIC? Like an upgrade that would cost me an arm and a leg... THE MAIN QUESTION I HAVE IS WHY DO PEOPLE PAY MORE MONEY FOR LESS POWER????? HRC is like $400 more for like 20 hp less? and an SMIC i mean seriously WHY???? WHAT is it that people arent telling me WTF makes hahn so better? Are you people just obsessed with insanly fast spooling?

Originally posted by TheOctane
Does the HRC Stage II have an option for an FMIC? Like an upgrade that would cost me an arm and a leg... THE MAIN QUESTION I HAVE IS WHY DO PEOPLE PAY MORE MONEY FOR LESS POWER????? HRC is like $400 more for like 20 hp less? and an SMIC i mean seriously WHY???? WHAT is it that people arent telling me WTF makes hahn so better? Are you people just obsessed with insanly fast spooling?

if you are so smart then buy what you want. HRC requires less modifying sometimes to instal. WHERE did you get these horsepower numbers. Maybe i've just never seen a dyno with a 2gnt with one turbo installed then dyno'd and the same car with the other kit installed and dyno'd. because in my opinion that would be the real only accuarate way to compare the two on horsepower numbers. The FMIC isn't going to give you more horses right off the bat, the SMIC will be fine to around 300 horses i believe. If you just really want it to look like you have a turbo then get star so you can show off your FMIC which won't be as good as the HRC front mount you could purchase. Get what you want, it really doesn't make a differene because both kits have been tried and tested and if you have questions about an issue on either one someone here will have the answer.

the extra power from a star kit comes from the turbo...plain and simple it blows the 16g out of the water and is still bigger than a 20g...the t3/t4 50trim is just a tad smaller than a 25g, and a 57trim is VERY close in size with a 25g...IMO if you want a turbo kit from HRC that matches a star your gonna spend $1000 more...

-bigger turbo to match t3/t4
-real downpipe
-better fuel system
-FMIC
-external wastegate(not gonna happen on HRC)

with these mods
-star stage 2
-tial 35mm wastegate
-crane #12 cams
-fidanza cam gears
-bored TB
-UDP
-2.5" turbo back exhuast(testpipe, no cat)

i ran a 14.50@98.38 on 6.5psi in 93 degree heat with a 2.29 60' time...most people can barely break 14.90s at 8-9psi on an HRC...

I would have to say that I went with HRC b/c of the customer service. They have been great to me so far and when I had problems they were very helpful. I did alot of research before buying my kit and that is why I went with HRC. The only thing I wished I would of did first would of built up my bottom end. But what is done is done

Now on behave of power, my best time is 14.6 on 6 pounds of boost no cams, no bigger TB, no ported intake manifold, etc. Just the mods listed below minus Greddy Profec B-spec 2, Greddy T-Timer which just was installed yesterday. Each run I did I got better, but the main thing that I did which made me get my time down was adjusting my tire pressure to help me keep some traction in 1st gear.


http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=24657
Hahn Stage 2 with FMIC, Apexi S-AFC,Greddy Profec B-spec 2, Greddy T-Timer, Thermal Research Exhaust, High Flow Cat. Converter, Still Stock Internals

Link to my timeslip
http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=41961&password=0&sort=2&cat=500&page=1

Im sorry but i simply cant believe someone would buy a weaker product for more money based soley on customer service, it has to be the eraly spooling, thats the only thing that makes sense. But yes man the T03/04 puts out much more power then the 16g, and you dont need to put both kits on the same car to know that. but i would think the Ball Bearing t03/4 spools almost as fast as the 16G and with that upgrade puts the prices about equal depending on where you buy them. So i dunno, you guys are you HRC kits confuse the hell out of me. Im not knockin the kit, im just trying to see what everyone else sees so i can make an adequate judgment when i buy my kit. Thanks again guys for all the imput.

would you guys say the HRC is safer then? since the star turbo builds so much more power?

see the reason i chose STAR 'cause i researched and see that it puts out more power for less money...screw customer service. i never needed customer because of knowledge. i read about turbochargers and how they worked and what to expect boosting a NA car from friends who have done it. i learned on my own and here on this site reading trial and error from other people. like any kit, eventually you're gonna upgrade it in the future. no one that i've heard stays at 7-8psi. now for all this knowledge over the years i would just consider making my own kit, and buy everything i would that i wouldn't have to regret buying the 1st time. pretty much all that's not worth buying from these kits. but they're both good kits, just i felt STAR was the better buy. i did not regret not buying it, i totally liked it, and i still have some of the parts left over: manifold, IC pipes, still got the Walbro FP, oil feed line, some IC couplings, the deltgate 7psi(still holding high boost). the rest is history. so there's my opinion.

It's not just the earlier spool and the support, it's the quality of engineering. The HRC kit is simply built better than the STAR kit. I am a STAR guy and i'll be the first to admit that.

That saying "you get what you pay for" always holds true.

I went with star because it is slightly more flexible as well when it comes to changing it up to fit your needs.

T3 style flange vs a mitsu. Many more turbo's to choose from.

External waste gate. Always better, unless you are a basic daily driver.

Mildly better fuel set up (fmu vs cartech)

slightly better manifold

the star FMIC is better then the hahn SMIC, which is what you get if you're comparing stage 2 kits at the same price. FMIC is HRC stage 2 + 800 dollars.

That said, I still tossed the FMU, BOV, and wastegate from the star kit.

And if your are a beginner do-it-yourself'er, then HRC might be the way to go, since star customer service simply does not exist. Do not expect to recieve any support. They will *NOT* provide you with lost misc. parts (i.e. clamps, hoses, etc.), and the directions suck balls.

Um I went with star because like Mike said, a little for flexible with upgrades and what not.

VERY true about the customer service though, there is none from star!
As for the directions, I dont think they could have been easier. Bolt this to that and what not, although I will admit I had the i/c pipes on backwards for a day but they still fit right, lol.
You can tell the company you buy it from too what flange you want it on the i/c pipes for what bov your gonna use.

And for Mike aka cereal5, you need to list your shit parts on the board to sell to get me my fucking money you owe me, $785 to be exact sucka! Pay my ass up!

Originally posted by Cereal5
I went with star because it is slightly more flexible as well when it comes to changing it up to fit your needs. T3 style flange vs a mitsu. Many more turbo's to choose from. External waste gate. Always better, unless you are a basic daily driver. Mildly better fuel set up (fmu vs cartech) slightly better manifold the star FMIC is better then the hahn SMIC, which is what you get if you're comparing stage 2 kits at the same price. FMIC is HRC stage 2 + 800 dollars. That said, I still tossed the FMU, BOV, and wastegate from the star kit. And if your are a beginner do-it-yourself'er, then HRC might be the way to go, since star customer service simply does not exist. Do not expect to recieve any support. They will *NOT* provide you with lost misc. parts (i.e. clamps, hoses, etc.), and the directions suck balls.

Ah, will the abundance of bad information never end. Don't take any offense I just need to point out whats wrong with this.

The HRC turbo manifold uses a T3 bolt pattern because the Mitsu 10cm^2 exhaust housing uses a t3 flange. Go figure.

External wastegate so much better than the internal gate. Like 99% of you can outflow the standard internal gate ... ohh 5psi ... ohh 15psi ... ohh 46 trim t3/t4 hybrid. Gimme a break. You should tell that to peolpe running internally gated FP Greens that double your power output. Ohh lets swap out the deltagate ... actually have a reason for doing it other than I got a nifty Tial out of it instead.

The star FMIC is pretty shitty. Aside from the core it's pretty crappy in construction.

Here's the bottom line ... both kits are fine if you are going to run 5psi or even 10psi. Lets take each one apart piece by piece (even though I KNOW I've written this before).

Manifold - Star has an externally gated log-style cast iron manifold with a t3 flange. Being a cast peice it has its casting imprefections that can affect flow. Everyone loves the external gate but remember you're still limited 2 wastegates ... tial 38mm and the deltagate. You can't run those big honking racing wastegates wrong bolt pattern. Worst part about it it just plain sucks to bolt up! A monkey could've designed something a little better than that. The jury is still out on how well it flows when you start pushing some serious air through the motor.

Manifold - HRC manifold is a welded steel manifold. Construction is pretty good but as a welded manifold it can crack. T3 pattern for the super series HRC turbos. Not that you can't bolt up anything with a t3 flange. Still a log-style manifold. Not the greatest in bolting up but I like it better than the Star manifold. Seems to be able to flow a decent amount.

Turbo - Star has a t3/t4 hybrid. Multiple variations. Can't complain about it except that 90% of Star users just never come close to pushing their turbos past 15psi. Boo!

Turbo - HRC has the super series turbos. The s16g is defintely a street turbo. Won't flow great when you start uping the boost. s20g ans s25g are pretty nice but still don't flow as much as well matched Garett turbo.

Downpipe - Star ... sorry its just sucks. I don't know who they sourced their flanges from but they don't come close to matching up to the turbo side. No flex section, no support. The only good thing is it's 2.5".

Downpipe - HRC ... sorry its just sucks too. Not even a full downpipe and the whole clamp thing ... BLEH!!!!

Fuel system - Star .... it's ok.

Fuel system - HRC .... craptech sucks ... nuff said.

BOV - Star ... HKS Standard. I wouldn't run it past 1 bar.

BOV - HRC ... 3kGT BOV. It's alright for 5 psi car.

Other than that I rate the kits the same. Yeah they both suck and they are both ok. Depending on how far you go you'll end up replacing the turbo, the downpipe, the manifold, BOV, and fuel system regardless of the kit. If you have a star you'll end up eventually replacing the FMIC, if you have a HRC and don't have the HRC FMIC you'll replace the SMIC.

There you have it. This is a plain fact but 90% of those people that buy the kits will never get past 10-15psi. Everything that either kit comes with you can use at those levels. Even those people that build their own custom kits still don't make it those boost and power levels either.

Originally posted by Cereal5
the star FMIC is better then the hahn SMIC,

Absofuckinglutely not. You've never seen an HRC sidemount, have you? The STAR fmic flat sucks. it's tiny, the core is alright, and the endtanks fucking suck. I'd take an HRC sidemount over a STAR FMIC any day of the week. There is easily half again the core in the HRC's SMIC than in Star's FMIC.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by Cereal5 the star FMIC is better then the hahn SMIC,

Absofuckinglutely not. You've never seen an HRC sidemount, have you? The STAR fmic flat sucks. it's tiny, the core is alright, and the endtanks fucking suck. I'd take an HRC sidemount over a STAR FMIC any day of the week. There is easily half again the core in the HRC's SMIC than in Star's FMIC.

Seriously? Just by looking at the two you'd have to give it to the FMIC, because in sheer size it looks like it would be a better choice. I'm sorry if I am mistaken.

but the HRC one is THICKER.

Originally posted by Cereal5
because in sheer size it looks like it would be a better choice.

Seriously. The STAR FMIC is about 24" long tank-to-tank, and maybe 2" thick. The HRC SMIC is about 4" thick and 12" square. That's a lot of core. With intercoolers, core size is measured in three dimensions, not just two. The third dimension (thickness) matters a lot more than people realize.

I understand that thickness matters, but to me it would seem that surface area is the most important factor, other then flow through the intercooler, since the more surface area that sees cooler air, the better it's going to cool the air inside it. As far as logic goes, it's what makes the most sense to me...

since you have a much much larger surface seeing cooler air, it seems like it would cool better with the fmic. How am I wrong?

I don't know where my flaw in logic is haha, so shed some light!

The only thing I could think of that would make the hahn smic a better unit is if it's THAT much better in terms of flow through it, and maybe that's where the significance of thickness comes into play :shrug

But I'm just kind of speculating now

Well since all this new knowledge of ICs and manifolds and down pipes have been shed, im starting to like the HRC a lil bit more. But i still hate how small the turbo is and how high the price is.

Is it easy to upgrade from a s16g? and if so....how many amrs would that cost me??

Originally posted by TheOctane
Well since all this new knowledge of ICs and manifolds and down pipes have been shed, im starting to like the HRC a lil bit more. But i still hate how small the turbo is and how high the price is. Is it easy to upgrade from a s16g? and if so....how many amrs would that cost me??

You can always buy used. I think thedawg (Dan) is selling his. I think it is an smic though but hrc kits, used with an fmic usually go around 2000. Plus most people have usually upgraded the fuel system so you can negate that area. Just make sure you use ESCROW!

Originally posted by jsupetran

Originally posted by TheOctane Well since all this new knowledge of ICs and manifolds and down pipes have been shed, im starting to like the HRC a lil bit more. But i still hate how small the turbo is and how high the price is. Is it easy to upgrade from a s16g? and if so....how many amrs would that cost me??

You can always buy used. I think thedawg (Dan) is selling his. I think it is an smic though but hrc kits, used with an fmic usually go around 2000. Plus most people have usually upgraded the fuel system so you can negate that area. Just make sure you use ESCROW!

i refuse to buy used under any circumstances unless i personally know the previous owner. I have seen way too many people treat there turbos badly and i would rather start fresh. My car has treated me well so i would like to treat her well also.
But how much would a HRC Stage II with a fmic upgrade cost me?

Originally posted by TheOctane

Originally posted by jsupetran

Originally posted by TheOctane Well since all this new knowledge of ICs and manifolds and down pipes have been shed, im starting to like the HRC a lil bit more. But i still hate how small the turbo is and how high the price is. Is it easy to upgrade from a s16g? and if so....how many amrs would that cost me??

You can always buy used. I think thedawg (Dan) is selling his. I think it is an smic though but hrc kits, used with an fmic usually go around 2000. Plus most people have usually upgraded the fuel system so you can negate that area. Just make sure you use ESCROW!

i refuse to buy used under any circumstances unless i personally know the previous owner. I have seen way too many people treat there turbos badly and i would rather start fresh. My car has treated me well so i would like to treat her well also. But how much would a HRC Stage II with a fmic upgrade cost me?

Not sure but I think an extra 400 from the 3000 price. Go to there website and under prices. But yeah, what I did just buy a stage one setup, and upgrade later by buying a used fmic and pipes for 800 :), down from 1200. Greatest score I've made on here.

Originally posted by Cereal5
it would seem that surface area is the most important factor

It is. Surface area is more than just what you see - it's the sum of the entire surface of the IC in all three dimensions - air going through the IC is carrying heat away with it, the inner faces of the bars are surface too. You're on the right track, i think you're just missing some of the visualization.

OH BTW STAR kit here.
I think Im one of those un noticed side line peeps. I dont even think Dino knows who I am.

On the surface are bit. Why would the "face" matter? You want FLOW around and through the intercooler. Not just wind hitting the flat face.

Put it this way, You burn your hand. Do you want water splashing on your palm or water flowing through your fingers?

Thats why I went with the NER (sorry for mentioning the name guys) FMIC. Dino KNOWS what that is .
:evilgrin

havent heard that name in a while. im one of the few that bought one of those kits. didnt get it all but i pieced it together. i have the t3/4 all looks well on it cant wait to drive, as soon as the interior is done. anyone else wanna step up to the plate that has this kit? how is it doin? i like the t3t4 look and size. everything is built so hopefully i will be able to put it thru its paces.

Originally posted by Chamuko
OH BTW STAR kit here. I think Im one of those un noticed side line peeps. I dont even think Dino knows who I am. On the surface are bit. Why would the "face" matter? You want FLOW around and through the intercooler. Not just wind hitting the flat face. Put it this way, You burn your hand. Do you want water splashing on your palm or water flowing through your fingers?

And i know who you are, too, jackass. Remember insidetheweb? ;-)

Originally posted by Chamuko
Thats why I went with the NER (sorry for mentioning the name guys) FMIC. Dino KNOWS what that is . :evilgrin

Really?



Ya think? :evilgrin

HA! that's funny you guys bring up NER. I was one of the ones that got screwed in that deal.

I had a different SN back then... 98evoltalon. Didn't post much back then, just enough to get in on it, and then get fucked. It was super let me tell you.

And you know what, I was just thinking. I was also one of the last customers of wyatt at raceprep. That bastard took off with about 500 dollars of mine. I swear I have the worst luck haha.

yeah i got screwed out of some little shit that was supposed to go with the kit and a fmic. fucker, talk about customer support :) oh well se la vi. anyone have an up and running ner kit??

HAHA Thats the one This FMIC is huge.

Nah not the whole kit, Did anyone ever get a whole kit?

I just have the fmic. An upgrade to the Star.

Oh and that was a joke mang, No way Im gonna stop bugging Dino and the OG's around here.

guys try to stay on topic please

Originally posted by TheOctane
guys try to stay on topic please

I made it a poll, so now the info you're looking for will be at the top.

Thank you....If Everyone could please vote on the poll for me that would be great...Thanks guys...