Alright, I have a question dealing with high boost and the traction of the car. Andrew and I went out into the country and raced against our friends '95 BMW M3.

I was the passenger with Andrew each race. In a nutshell, the M3 got the jump each race due to his RWD traction and launches. So, each race it was a catch up game - at 65mph we started catching up, but the first race at ~14psi didn't quite make it. At 110mph he was about 4 - 5 car lengths on us. After the first race, the power steering belt had 'come off'. It didn't snap, but it slid off and was just hanging (Ill get to that later)....so we pulled it out and continued...

While under the hood, I tweaked the boost to about 17psi. So now we lined them up again, this time with about 3 more pounds of boost and a missing PS belt....so roughly 40 more hp.

We line then up, the M3 takes off and grabs the first 2 - 3 car lengths. Andrew's tires get semi-good traction, but spin at the top of first and then in second they spin between 4k and 6k.....rediculous traction issues. He goes into third and reels him strong, and then passes him at about 90mph...pulled him hard too.

And for the last run we went ahead and did it one more time....this time the M3 launched excellent and Andrew's tires went buck wild - no traction...went into third and desperately tried to gain on him but it was no use at this point...then he notices his battery light is on....yep the alternator belt was a goner.

After all of this, the questions I have are:

Is it normal to have traction issues THAT bad when boosting that high? First gear, ok yes -- but even in second gear, as the RPMs rose up the tires would break loose, forcing him to shift at 6kish, not even being able to run it to redline... The clutch was not slipping, you could literally hear the tires. Does everyone running high boost have these issues with second gear traction? The road was completely dry, and it was about 55 degrees outside - nothing too extreme. I've driven the car when it had fresh tires about a year ago, and I don't remember it slipping like that in second gear...could it be tires alone? One of his tires is decent, the other not so great. Keep in mind he is running the NewSkool LSD...

Secondly, after the third race his alternator belt had snapped or fallen off. Leaving him with no alternator belt and no PS belt... he never missed any gears - I know that isn't normal for belts to come off. Did we do something wrong installing them? Too tight, too loose? They felt damn tight to the touch, I used my best judgement.

Traction issues and belt issues....any input?

ditto.

need a bigger turbo. i can boost in first gear, and second w.out burning out.

its normal from a stop, even on an auto trans :o once boost hits and rises real fast, the wheels just spin. go from a 20-30 mph roll and see how that goes.

Originally posted by grain
need a bigger turbo. i can boost in first gear, and second w.out burning out.

Yeah your turbo is too small. ;) With the Apexi AVCR you can adjust boost for each gear to help keep traction. Or pickup a good set of tires, I got the BFG Geforce Drags on the front and they are great. I've beat GSX's at the track with those things.

lol i have both these problems, both my belts pop off, first second and third i will spin the tires at WOT

I have shitty tires and no lsd

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"Oh yea, well...My manifold does cool twisty things"

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Originally posted by xtrickedeclipsex
lol i have both these problems, both my belts pop off, first second and third i will spin the tires at WOT I have shitty tires and no lsd --------------------------------------- "Oh yea, well...My manifold does cool twisty things" www.EnhancedMotorSports.com

I told you your pulley is out of alignment ;)
Not sure why it is, but it is. Needs to go on another 2 or 3mm.

I have NO problems with belts either shredding or flying off. And I have more power than you have ;) so power doesn't have anything to do with it. :)

i dont have problems with belts flying off.

traction problems can be solved by getting a good set of slicks. ;)

Your belts shouldn't be popping off like that. My guess is that they were either old, or the pulley was slightly mis-aligned. Getting that thing on there and having it be lined up with both pulleys can be tricky.

Now that the car is actually making some good power (probably around the 250 ish WHP range with that boost level) 1st and 2nd gear will be a complete joke with the 16G, unless you have some fatties or something.

boost controllers are your traction friends

6psi in first usually works out nicely with my suspension and fatty tires. borders the line of burnout and traction with the quick spoolin 16g

Man I have heard about smaller wheels being better for performance, but never really paid attention to it because I liked the way my GSX wheels looked so much. Well about 2 days ago, I swapped my GSX wheels for some 97 GS 5 star wheels......and man, I have never had traction problems until now. Those GSX wheels are HEAVY. I can light these GS 16" wheels up on command!!!! Hell once on boost, especially in third where wheelspin is not as much of a concern, the car seems to REALLY get on it's ass and GOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

I love it!!

But ya, AWD would rule!!

You could do three things to solve your problem or do all of them if you got the money and time.

Bigger turbo: You can send in your 16g to Hahn and they will upgrade to a 20g or just get a bigger turbo and have your 16g as a backup

Tires: Get the Gforce like what etx said or other brands of drag radials... You could do slicks too..

Electronic boost controller: Greddy's profecB has a Hi/Lo feature that you can switch between gears. For example, for first/second gear you can run Lo@10-12psi and then switch to Hi@16+psi for third/fourth gear.. Like what others have said, Apexi's AVC will allow you with more options than Greddy's and more $$

The 20G still has a low boost onset and will probably only make the traction issue worse. I can smoke 'em in first through third and spin some in forth.

The answer is in boost CONTROL and drivetrain MODS. Suspension, LSD, and rubber.

Doug, are you running 20g too.?.. I was thinking about getting a bigger turbo, but what would you suggest?

QUAIFE + sticky tires

Originally posted by Super20G
QUAIFE + sticky tires

comming from a veteran. a rich one at that ;)

Yeah I had those traction issues even on my ATX tranny. The AVCR or Emanage have per-gear boost control capability.

I just learned throttle control to get over it. It was still scary to drive the car in the rain... You'd think you were going to make a gentle turn through an intersection and end up sliding sideways staring at the curb.

The belts are falling off because your UDP isn't on tight enough. Find someone with a 300ftlb+ impact wrench and tighten it until the bolt won't turn anymore. You don't even need to take off the wheel, just stick the gun in there and hit it.

I would agree with Brad, get a Quaife and some stickier tires. Even with the Quaife I could spin street tires at will in 3rd gear. I also had a 2-stage MBC for launching at the track, but I never used it there (I only used it to keep myself from boosting 23psi ALL the time). Adjustable shocks will help some too, by making the rears full stiff, and the fronts full soft the weight transfer will happen sooner and won't be quite as much as on stock suspension.

Your best friend for traction is skill. Learn to feather the throttle when needed.

mechanical solutions:
- Bigger stickier tires
- Good LSD
- Sway Bars
- Suspension (pretty much done)
- 3.55 trans



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