while scrolling through ebay, i found this wideband meter. its not the $400 autometer setup but it might work better than my blinky light a/f gauge when i decide to tune the car (AFTER I READ THAT MAXIMUM BOOST book!!!!!!!!). it should help out alot better too cuz it displays volts too and blinky lights. whats your thoughts on it, is it junk?

thanks guys and I DID buy that book to help me out with this shit when i get going and started.

just want your comments on this wideband meter .....

link?

looks good? :shrug

links help :P

wooops, i thought i forgot something .......
heres the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33681&item=7919652484&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

nah thats a narrowband, not a wideband. If your going to spend the money get a wideband. it costs roughly 200.00 to build your own.

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Greddy header - Greddy exhaust

97 Eclipse
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - 3" custom DP/Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

check out www.wb02.com

they have do-it-yourself wideband kits that you can put together yoruself. if youd like, ill build it for you if you buy the kit. i can get the 02 sensor and cable for it for like $35 bux.

Originally posted by siueclipse
check out www.wb02.com they have do-it-yourself wideband kits that you can put together yoruself. if youd like, ill build it for you if you buy the kit. i can get the 02 sensor and cable for it for like $35 bux.

ignore this post :)

Originally posted by siueclipse
check out www.wb02.com they have do-it-yourself wideband kits that you can put together yoruself. if youd like, ill build it for you if you buy the kit. i can get the 02 sensor and cable for it for like $35 bux.

Bad link, don't click the one above. It's just a misspell. The actuall link is www.wbo2.com. You accidently used a zero instead of an "o".

I can't look at the ebay link from work but in my opinion getting a WBo2 is very important for turbo tuning. The WBo2 that people have linked to up there all use the NTK L1H1 WBo2 sensor. This is a VERY expensive sensor (like $200). There are other WBo2 options that use the Bosch LSU4 sensor. They are the Zeitronix ZT-2 and the AEM UEGO to name a few. This sensor is MUCH cheaper ($80) to replace and is just as accurate. You'll just be hard pressed to find a DIY solution for it but the current controllers using it are reasonably priced. I'm sure you could find more doing a search on google (try many variations in the search field).

would you quit acting like an idiot mattchew?

Originally posted by siueclipse
would you quit acting like an idiot mattchew?

Originally posted by siueclipse

check out www.wb02.com

they have do-it-yourself wideband kits that you can put together yoruself. if youd like, ill build it for you if you buy the kit. i can get the 02 sensor and cable for it for like $35 bux.

How am I acting like an idiot? Your link didn't work so unless it's fixed now it still wont. I was just trying to help give the correct link.

Hard pressed to find huh.....YOUR WRONG

second selection after typing DIY wideband in search......hers the link

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/

for those of you who dont liek to build it yourself then they have kits already assembled and you can build for either sensor. 200-300 depending on how elaborate you want.

Terry

im gonna be nice.....

dont worry about doing a DIY type. if you don't have any electronics experience its not worth the headache for you of getting all the extra stuff needed to put it together and then trying to do it. buying one thats already pre-done is the way to go for you. they do not cost that much more money when its all said and done, plus you know they are done right.

www.innovatemotorsports.com

see, i was nice...

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Hard pressed to find huh.....YOUR WRONG second selection after typing DIY wideband in search......hers the link http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/ for those of you who dont liek to build it yourself then they have kits already assembled and you can build for either sensor. 200-300 depending on how elaborate you want. Terry

NO, YOU'RE WRONG! YOU NEED TO REREAD MY POST!

I said he'd be hard pressed to find a DIY solution that used the Bosch LSU4 sensor since it's cheaper. The TechEdge unit uses teh NTK sensor that costs $200.

Originally posted by Avenger

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon Hard pressed to find huh.....YOUR WRONG second selection after typing DIY wideband in search......hers the link http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/ for those of you who dont liek to build it yourself then they have kits already assembled and you can build for either sensor. 200-300 depending on how elaborate you want. Terry

NO, YOU'RE WRONG! YOU NEED TO REREAD MY POST! I said he'd be hard pressed to find a DIY solution that used the Bosch LSU4 sensor since it's cheaper. The TechEdge unit uses teh NTK sensor that costs $200.

*cough*

http://wbo2.com/

Bah. They all used to use the NTK. :P ... so you proved me wrong but the TechEdge still uses the NTK. Anyway it's about time they started designing controllers for the Bosch LSU sensor.

Originally posted by Avenger
Bah. They all used to use the NTK. :P ... so you proved me wrong but the TechEdge still uses the NTK. Anyway it's about time they started designing controllers for the Bosch LSU sensor.

I have the TechEdge v2.0 with the LSU4.2 sensor... sensor cost me 28.99 plus shipping...

But I would not recommend the kit version to anyone that doesn't have good soldering skills... it was way more advanced than the Megasquirts to make...
But they do make a pre-built kit... and it's one awesome wideband setup.

Anyone that has a turbo should ge a wideband IMO... just be sure to invest in a good wideband... ;)

how long does a wideband sensor last about? i have the innovative lm-1 and its pretty damn new so im not worried about it, but just wondering

Originally posted by turbo8u
how long does a wideband sensor last about? i have the innovative lm-1 and its pretty damn new so im not worried about it, but just wondering

A wideband should last about 40,000 to 80,000 miles on average as long as you obey the following rules:

1.) Never run leaded gas, and yes this can include race gas for a long length of time
2.) Never run the car with the wideband sensor in the exhaust stream but not plugged into the wideband controller, this will lead to death for the wideband sensor!

Nice thing about my Bosch LSU4.2 sensor is that I can buy a new one for $30... so if it does it don't matter much to the wallett! ;)

Originally posted by MrSlick
A wideband should last about 40,000 to 80,000 miles on average

woot! thanks lee

Originally posted by MrSlick
...
1.) Never run leaded gas, and yes this can include race gas for a long length of time
...

If you want to run leaded gas with a wideband, or any oxygen sensor for that matter, you can make the sensor last a bit longer if you dump in the C16 after the engine is heated up. Dumping cold lead onto an oxygen sensor really kills the thing quick, but it's not quite as bad if the engine is already warmed up.

Quick question... When an oxygen sensor gets "damaged" by leaded gas, does that mean the diffusion gap gets cloged? Or does it get inside of the diffusion gap and do something nasty to the pump and nernst cell?

Originally posted by Avenger

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon Hard pressed to find huh.....YOUR WRONG second selection after typing DIY wideband in search......hers the link http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/ for those of you who dont liek to build it yourself then they have kits already assembled and you can build for either sensor. 200-300 depending on how elaborate you want. Terry

NO, YOU'RE WRONG! YOU NEED TO REREAD MY POST! I said he'd be hard pressed to find a DIY solution that used the Bosch LSU4 sensor since it's cheaper. The TechEdge unit uses teh NTK sensor that costs $200.

look at the second page it has an option for the bosch.........gotta read into it. I ON NOT WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

96 Eagle talon ESI
Greddy header - Greddy exhaust

97 Eclipse
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - 3" custom DP/Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by Avenger

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon Hard pressed to find huh.....YOUR WRONG second selection after typing DIY wideband in search......hers the link http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/ for those of you who dont liek to build it yourself then they have kits already assembled and you can build for either sensor. 200-300 depending on how elaborate you want. Terry

NO, YOU'RE WRONG! YOU NEED TO REREAD MY POST! I said he'd be hard pressed to find a DIY solution that used the Bosch LSU4 sensor since it's cheaper. The TechEdge unit uses teh NTK sensor that costs $200.

look at the second page it has an option for the bosch.........gotta read into it. I ON NOT WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 96 Eagle talon ESI Greddy header - Greddy exhaust 97 Eclipse Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - 3" custom DP/Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

Damn, Terry. You got me. :) But all the early versions of the DIY wb projects all used the NTK sensor. I'm glad they all offer the alternative of using the Bosch LSU sensor now (never understood why you would want a $250 dollar oxygen sensor that doesn't like leaded gas). BTW ... what's "I ON NOT WRONG!" mean? :P

so is that narrowband not worth the $75?
i talked to my local shop guy and he said something like that would help me when i go to tune the safc because it displays the actual voltage of the a/f.

he also told me btw, with my fuel setup, to use 30lb injectors for up to 15psi instead of messing with the 440's cuz im a dumb ass, hehe. then get the proper disk to use in the FMU and use the safc. I think he might know what he's talking about since he had a turbo integra so I guess ill try his way when i go to do it. 15psi should be enough for a summer's boosting!

anyway, should i not bid on that narrowband to help me tune the afc when i do go to tune the afc?

thanks for this info, its actually a post going good! :)

forgot to add that the narrowband on ebay also uses the stock o2 sensor so i wouldnt have to buy a $200 o2 sensor ....

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
thanks for this info, its actually a post going good! :)

Heres where it goes bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE no one help with anymore of this guys questions untill he answers these questions:

1. what does a narrowband o2 meter read?
2. what does a wideband o2 meter read?
3. what is the difference between the two?
4. which one requires a seperate sensor?
5. what are you "tuning" with the SAFC?

when you can answer these questions ON YOUR OWN, then you can ask about the stuff you are trying to get answers to.
You are SO putting th cart before the horse its not even funny. You are jumping way to far ahead in the tuning realm of knowledge when you havent even mastered the basics yet. you have GOT to do this before you take on anything with your car, your gonna blow it up dude. I promise you that!! you are way to eager for this!!!! you need to slow down and learn some things first...

by the way, just out of curiosity...how old are you?

from my knowledge, here are my answers, lol :

1. the narrowband displays/reads voltage generated by the factory o2 sensor.
2. the wideband provides data on exactly how rich or lean an engine is running at any load. widebands read stable output over a larger range than factory 1-4 wire oxygen sensors.
3. the diffrence is that the narrowband only reads 0-1 volts on factory sensors and the wideband reads 0-5 volts on special o2 sensors. the widebands are A LOT more accurate from what i have heard obviously.
4. the wideband uses a special sensor.
5. for tuning with the afc, i guess i will be leaning out at different rpm's and pulls.

how did i score!?!
:)

also, i forgot .....

i am the lucky age of 18!

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
also, i forgot ..... i am the lucky age of 18!

SnapTastic!! suprisingly, i have to say, you got those pretty much right. BUT!!!

regurgitating info learned on google is good, you need to learn how those answers correlate to your car and your situation.












**Hint (buy a fucking wideband!! and learn how to tune against it)
I would suggest the zeitronic, cuz its cool, and if you can pronounce the name it gives you a +10whp bonus!

Here is a cost effective tip for you........

narrowband on ebay.....75.00
Datalogger (laptop based).......100.00 (reads narrowband)
Datalogger (palm based).........175.00 (reads narrowband also)
wideband......200.-1000.

All this equals.....wasted 75.00.....datalogger reads factory narrow band. put the 75.00 towards a nice datalogger and start saving for a wideband o2 setup.

Terry
96 Eagle talon ESI
Greddy header - Greddy exhaust

97 Eclipse
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - 3" custom DP/Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

i have an OBDII logger that pulls all the codes from the ecu but I will look into a nice datalogger and sometime before I start boosting next spring, a wideband since I will be running high boost. there are a couple on ebay for like 350 bucks. I also seen in the Summit Racing website that autometer sells a wideband kit. I am not doing all this until winter so I have A LOT more time to read up and search on these things more than I have already. The wideband will deffinately help though when I go to tune the afc. I am going to tune least as possible that I need to, then have teh closest dyno which is liek 4 hours away, tune the rest for me obviously because they will know what do more than I would. But I guess I am sticking with the 42lb injectors, 4:1 disk (i bought it from summit for $21) for teh fmu, and the afc to help me out. Will I need an actual adjustable FPR though to help out or no?


Thanks!

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
i have an OBDII logger that pulls all the codes from the ecu but I will look into a nice datalogger and sometime before I start boosting next spring, a wideband since I will be running high boost. there are a couple on ebay for like 350 bucks. I also seen in the Summit Racing website that autometer sells a wideband kit. I am not doing all this until winter so I have A LOT more time to read up and search on these things more than I have already. The wideband will deffinately help though when I go to tune the afc. I am going to tune least as possible that I need to, then have teh closest dyno which is liek 4 hours away, tune the rest for me obviously because they will know what do more than I would. But I guess I am sticking with the 42lb injectors, 4:1 disk (i bought it from summit for $21) for teh fmu, and the afc to help me out. Will I need an actual adjustable FPR though to help out or no? Thanks!

4:1 disk is too high for the42lb imjectors... plus your gonna need either an SFMU or a way to lower your base fuel pressure.
The normal FMU does not let you control base fuel pressure, only raises it with boost... but with 42lbers you need about 20 psi idle fuel pressure... not the stock 43.5psi... :)

when i go to buy one, i think i would be getting this one ...

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/lm1.php

this may be another super noob question coming from me, but hell, in that picture of that wideband meter and sensor, it looks as if the sensor plugs into the meter, obviously so it can get the voltage and readings from it. well, you know how the factory sensor, when you remove it up from the upstream downpipe, to completely remove it, you have to unplug it, well when i unplug then one i have in there now, do i just keep the plug out of the way unplugged for good or does the wideband kit comehow come into play with that?

i didnt see anything on any site about that.

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
when i go to buy one, i think i would be getting this one ... http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/lm1.php this may be another super noob question coming from me, but hell, in that picture of that wideband meter and sensor, it looks as if the sensor plugs into the meter, obviously so it can get the voltage and readings from it. well, you know how the factory sensor, when you remove it up from the upstream downpipe, to completely remove it, you have to unplug it, well when i unplug then one i have in there now, do i just keep the plug out of the way unplugged for good or does the wideband kit comehow come into play with that? i didnt see anything on any site about that.

I didn't see it saying anything about having a NBo2 simulated output (at least not on the base package) so you would have to keep your nbo2 for the stock ECU and add an additional o2 bung to your downpipe for the wbo2 sensor.

for the disc ....

it says to use the 4:1 disc on the vortech website for use with 42lb injectors.
for adjusting, instead of buying an sfmu, i will just get an aeromotive fuel pressure regulator to adjust the fuel pressure. i really dont wanna buy the sfmu for 250 bucks when i can probbaly get away with that 42lb jects, 4:1 disk since thats what vortech rec's, afc and an actual fpr to adjust the fp.



for use with the wideband, before i buy one of those, i will have the dyno adjust the afc where it needs to be to run high boost with my setup and then sometime later down the road when i rack up some extra cash, switch to a wideband.


the setup above (42lb jects, 4:1 fmu, fpr, and afc) is what the local shop told me to use. not saying they are right though, just listing their 2 cents. as far as i know, it should work okay, but i could be wrong, lol.

Are you sure your obdII logger doesnt log o2 counts.....

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Greddy header - Greddy exhaust

97 Eclipse
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - 3" custom DP/Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

I would just like to mention what all i logging with the wbo2.com widebande unit.

AFR's
Fuel Pressure
Oil Pressure
Boost w/ a GM Map sensor
EGT Temps
Air Intake Temps
RPM

ya im sure my OBDII doesnt pull voltage or anything from the o2's ... it just pulls codes from the ecu.

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
ya im sure my OBDII doesnt pull voltage or anything from the o2's ... it just pulls codes from the ecu.

thats cause it's just a scantool, let me guess, on sale $100 at Kragens. As far as your situation, I can see all your problems going away with one thing, MegaSquirt. It will datalog everything, you have no need for the rising rate fuel pressure units like the Vortech, and it'll work with either the stock narrowband or an aftermarket wideband unit. Another reason I say this is because the S-AFC that you are planning on using is very effective at trimming fuel in small quantities, but for any large change in fuel flow you will alo get the unexpected timing change because you are tricking your computer into thinking it has a different volume of air going into the engine. Now having said all that I have said, before you buy/install anything, READ AS MUCH AS YOU CAN ABOUT IT!!! Just cause I said buy it doesn't mean that you aren't responsible for any damage caused to your car in the end, protect yourself with information. Enough of my GI Joe, the more you know rant. Anyone that disagrees with me (Im sure there's plenty) feel free to throw out your $.02 as I've done mine.

Good...lord.

Originally posted by siueclipse
I would just like to mention what all i logging with the wbo2.com widebande unit. AFR's Fuel Pressure Oil Pressure Boost w/ a GM Map sensor EGT Temps Air Intake Temps RPM

Yeah the Techedge unit is awesome... I have the same thing.
I don't use it fordatalogging though cause I can do all that and more with the MS... :)

It's funny, you can actually see the point at which his brain fails. There is a definate post that indicates a condition of "Brain full: Ignoring new input."