ok. i know this has been discused, but i want to add something to it.

when i recently dynoed my car, i ran with and without the cold air intake on the turbo. it made no difference what so ever. i know that my earlier posts about this topic said otherwise.. maybe something was different that time.. im not sure..

anyway.. it makes no difference on the dyno, no change in spool time, hp, or tq. however, i still do believe it makes a difference when driving

there is an old video of my cold air intake on my site.. www.gsturbo.com/james/eclipse if anyone is interested in viewing it to see how i made it.

Originally posted by siueclipse
ok. i know this has been discused, but i want to add something to it. when i recently dynoed my car, i ran with and without the cold air intake on the turbo. it made no difference what so ever. i know that my earlier posts about this topic said otherwise.. maybe something was different that time.. im not sure.. anyway.. it makes no difference on the dyno, no change in spool time, hp, or tq. however, i still do believe it makes a difference when driving there is an old video of my cold air intake on my site.. www.gsturbo.com/james/eclipse if anyone is interested in viewing it to see how i made it.

Links down. Is your dyno video on that link?

Originally posted by siueclipse
..but i want to add something to it. when i recently dynoed my car, i ran with and without the cold air intake on the turbo. it made no difference what so ever...

Can you post the dyno, I've always wanted to see.

um yea, no gain in hp or tq but you can feel it on the street? talk about a placebo

you wouldnt feel it on a dyno because the ambient air isnt much cooler than when its pulling right through the neck

I'd have to think that adding the cai on would add some consistency/even the air out a little bit before it gets to turbo (same technology that makes Tornado add like 100hp!!)

Ummm... someone made a funny on your website...

http://www.gsturbo.com/james/

As if hydrolocking a nonturbo isn't bad enough. Just what you fucking need, driving along, hitting a puddle, and pulling in VAST quantities of water, pitting your compressor wheel (at best) and bending your rods into expensive pretzels. :thumbsup

Some things are just not worth it. Turn up the fuggin' boost, sallie... If you can't do that without overrevving it, get a bigger turbo.

CAI + Turbo + Street driven car = expensive mess

Originally posted by djtrickee
Ummm... someone made a funny on your website... http://www.gsturbo.com/james/

That would be yours truely. :)

The debate about CAI and Short Ram off the turbo has bee beaten with a stick...

Bill Hahn runs a CAI extension.....so I'm taking that into consideration. I plan to make an extension longer than a shortram, but shorter than a CAI so I don't have to worry about water. Anyhow...

Post your dyno James!

Originally posted by Ryan_Hes
Bill Hahn runs a CAI extension.....so I'm taking that into consideration.

Not that I doubt reputation by accomplishment but names do not substitute for actual data. Consider harder or get to the dyno. I don't see "Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior" plastered on the side of his RS so maybe it isn't gospel. Just a consideration.

isnt a turbo rediculously hot anyway... any cold air hitting it would instantly be heated up. i find it hard to believe that it actually makes a difference.

it barely makes a difference on my NA

Makes one wonder why these places stay in business...

Originally posted by Ark
Makes one wonder why these places stay in business...

the jesus stickers

Originally posted by Ark

Originally posted by Ryan_Hes Bill Hahn runs a CAI extension.....so I'm taking that into consideration.

Not that I doubt reputation by accomplishment but names do not substitute for actual data. Consider harder or get to the dyno. I don't see "Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior" plastered on the side of his RS so maybe it isn't gospel. Just a consideration.

All I am saying is...he has the FWD record. The setup he is running obviously works well. Yes proven statistics are better.

Well, I'd try it if I could get a hold of an intake pipe. My buddy with a GSR-T tried it and it made a difference. I live in the desert so rain wouldn't be an issue, the 110 degree heat is though. Some folks can't afford a massive intercooler (hence my lil starion) so adding a $20 intake pipe would be worth it. I'd would drop the air temps a few degrees and not 'heat soak' your air filter.

.

..

I still don't like the idea. If you are that hard up for cooling, what about an intercooler sprayer or water injection?

i asked bill about a CAI on turbo. he isn't running one from he told me.

as far as my car in the rain.. my car never sees rain so im not worried about hydrolocking. as far as running intercooler sprayers, those don't do shit for you unless you are spraying all the time. all they do is make the air cooler making you run leaner. youd have to tune for spraying which wouldn't help you much in my opinion.

*edit*

Nevermind.

Well it's a cheap mod, sorta like the ol dryer hose, every little bit counts. Sorry for the double 'nothing' posts computer f'd up

Here is Bill Hahns engine bay.... Is is a 'cold air style'. I even cheacked the end of it, and he doesn't run a filter, at least not at thet track - he simply had a screen on the end of it so a rock or something wouldnt get in there. Of couse it's not a daily driver... hence the lack of filter.



James, do you have a dyno sheet you can post?

Shit, I was going to go to bed. Now I can't, not until I reply to this wonderful piece of a post by SIUECLIPSE:

<quote>
i asked bill about a CAI on turbo. he isn't running one from he told me.

as far as my car in the rain.. my car never sees rain so im not worried about hydrolocking. as far as running intercooler sprayers, those don't do shit for you unless you are spraying all the time. all they do is make the air cooler making you run leaner. youd have to tune for spraying which wouldn't help you much in my opinion.
</quote>

Let's look at this one. The first part was alright, and actually resembled logic. If your car sees no rain, then you cannot hydrolock.

Going a step further, though, having your filter closer to the ground makes it more prone to grabbing up dust and road shit. A CAI on a naturally aspirated motor does this pretty well, which is why an open element filter needs cleaning frequently, especially if it hanging by the wheel well. Now, add a lower partial pressure, such as is seen in the intake piping before a turbo, and you have a really creative street-vacuum.

But that's alright, if you don't mind cleaning the filter weekly and replacing it more frequently then would you otherwise.


Now, for the intercooler sprayer. They don't do shit unless they are spraying. When they are spraying, however, they can make a big difference. Why is Mitsubishi bothering to put an IC sprayer on their USDM Evos, when they opted not to include an active center diff? It's not because it is useless. Mitsubishi decided that it would be worth the cost to put it in, where the ACD was not worth it.

Secondly, they make the air cooler? You don't say! HEY EVERYBODY! AN INTERCOOLER SPRAYER MAKES THE AIR COOLER! Wait, isn't that the point? Isn't that why we use intercoolers? To cool off the air going into the engine? Isn't that why you are trying to wring the last little bit of your intercrapper with a cold air intake?

Another piece of information that I did not know... cold air makes you run lean! I guess that the engineers at Chrysler neglected to install an intake temperature sensor. That's a real shame, because if the car was equipped with a intake air temperature sensor, the car would be able to compensate for things like a cold front. :squint

Speed density engine management relies on a few variables... manifold pressure being one of them, manifold volume being another (but this is constant), and manifold air temperature. For this reason, any real fuel management system will not only take into consideration the pressure in a manifold, but also the temperature of the air flowing through it. That is what determines the density of the air.

If you are using a fuel management setup that is too dumb to compensate for air temperature in any way, then it is time to rethink your management package.

So, back on topic, a CAI is a good way to get that last bit of performance out of a car that is tuned to the limit. In a perfect world, a CAI on a turbo would be a good idea. In the real world, however, there are other better alternatives. I would recommend water injection over intercooler spraying, myself, however.

that huge rant all aimed at someone with nearly 400FWHP eclipse....

inlet temperatures dont mean shit people. intake air temperatures are what really matters (i.e-intercooling) obviously when air is compressed it gains a certain temperature increase per psi compressed so i mean, a drop in 2-5 degrees with a 'CAI' to the turbone inlet isnt going to do much. adiabatic efficiency (no loss or rise in heat) MIGHT be increased but like i said, intercooling the boost is MUCH more imporant than the static inlet air temps

so basaically who gives a shit about a CAI?

i think the only reason bill hahn has that fat ass pipe is because his engine bay is hot with the hood closed so might as well get a little cooler air and not make the intercooler work as hard

i did a full write-up on this with two tests on the intake air temp as well as the inlet air temp and the difference was NOT THAT MUCH....(rise in heat when compressed in the compressor wasnt changed by slightly cooler inlet temps) and obviously the key is hp and tq gains...which there are none

edit: the whole reason cold air intake even works is because of the law that colder air is denser, but all that gets thrown out the window when that air is compressed and plumbed through 4 feet of piping and a front mount.

Originally posted by Justin99RS
that huge rant all aimed at someone with nearly 400FWHP eclipse....

Someone who claims to have close 400FWHP. He's never once shown us he has made 300FWHP. Besides there are quite a few guys on here with way more knowlege than him.

Originally posted by Mattchew

Originally posted by Justin99RS that huge rant all aimed at someone with nearly 400FWHP eclipse....

Someone who claims to have close 400FWHP. He's never once shown us he has made 300FWHP. Besides there are quite a few guys on here with way more knowlege than him.

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by Mattchew

Originally posted by Justin99RS that huge rant all aimed at someone with nearly 400FWHP eclipse....

Someone who claims to have close 400FWHP. He's never once shown us he has made 300FWHP. Besides there are quite a few guys on here with way more knowlege than him.

Wow, that's as old as the interweb :) I have a better one. I call it "crapped my pants" by I.P. Freely :)

retard.

Originally posted by siueclipse
retard.

Your right that is a better name for the picture. My bad.

BTW that picture still doesn't constitute a picture of a dyno sheet or even a pay stub. ;)

I have a better pic...

Originally posted by siueclipse
I have a better pic...

Still not a dyno or paystub now is it?

you going to start this BS in every thread?

Originally posted by siueclipse
you going to start this BS in every thread?

Your right, I'm done. I think my point has been made.

You may think it has been, but to be perfectly honest, people don't care. Nor do they care for you whoring up threads with worthless bullshit.

Originally posted by siueclipse
You may think it has been, but to be perfectly honest, people don't care. Nor do they care for you whoring up threads with worthless bullshit.

I think people care. Especially when over the last couple of days you have clearly shown how deceptive you can be. Your lack of honesty when it comes to your job and your car is jaw dropping. If only people had a chance to hear half of what I did from some of guys in your area. I personally would not take any technical advice from you considering the fact that you have never shown any evidence that you have any technical skill.

You've claimed to make almost 400hp with no dyno sheet to prove this and you claim to make 93,000 dollars a year in a town that has 50,000 people and the average computer related job pays less than 30,000 a year. Is anything you tell us true?

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
Shit, I was going to go to bed. Now I can't, not until I reply to this wonderful piece of a post by SIUECLIPSE: <quote> i asked bill about a CAI on turbo. he isn't running one from he told me. as far as my car in the rain.. my car never sees rain so im not worried about hydrolocking. as far as running intercooler sprayers, those don't do shit for you unless you are spraying all the time. all they do is make the air cooler making you run leaner. youd have to tune for spraying which wouldn't help you much in my opinion. </quote> Let's look at this one. The first part was alright, and actually resembled logic. If your car sees no rain, then you cannot hydrolock. Going a step further, though, having your filter closer to the ground makes it more prone to grabbing up dust and road shit. A CAI on a naturally aspirated motor does this pretty well, which is why an open element filter needs cleaning frequently, especially if it hanging by the wheel well. Now, add a lower partial pressure, such as is seen in the intake piping before a turbo, and you have a really creative street-vacuum. But that's alright, if you don't mind cleaning the filter weekly and replacing it more frequently then would you otherwise. Now, for the intercooler sprayer. They don't do shit unless they are spraying. When they are spraying, however, they can make a big difference. Why is Mitsubishi bothering to put an IC sprayer on their USDM Evos, when they opted not to include an active center diff? It's not because it is useless. Mitsubishi decided that it would be worth the cost to put it in, where the ACD was not worth it. Secondly, they make the air cooler? You don't say! HEY EVERYBODY! AN INTERCOOLER SPRAYER MAKES THE AIR COOLER! Wait, isn't that the point? Isn't that why we use intercoolers? To cool off the air going into the engine? Isn't that why you are trying to wring the last little bit of your intercrapper with a cold air intake? Another piece of information that I did not know... cold air makes you run lean! I guess that the engineers at Chrysler neglected to install an intake temperature sensor. That's a real shame, because if the car was equipped with a intake air temperature sensor, the car would be able to compensate for things like a cold front. :squint Speed density engine management relies on a few variables... manifold pressure being one of them, manifold volume being another (but this is constant), and manifold air temperature. For this reason, any real fuel management system will not only take into consideration the pressure in a manifold, but also the temperature of the air flowing through it. That is what determines the density of the air. If you are using a fuel management setup that is too dumb to compensate for air temperature in any way, then it is time to rethink your management package. So, back on topic, a CAI is a good way to get that last bit of performance out of a car that is tuned to the limit. In a perfect world, a CAI on a turbo would be a good idea. In the real world, however, there are other better alternatives. I would recommend water injection over intercooler spraying, myself, however.

1. have you ever run a sprayer on your car? interesting.. I have and Ive seen the AFR results from it. It makes you run lean. At least my car does. You tune your car for a certain AFR at a certain air temperature.. etc. Now if you go bringing in another variable that you haven't tuned for, whats going to happen? Your tuning will change because of it.

2. When I spoke with Bill on the phone he stated that he didn't have a cold air. Apparently he does. Good for him.

3. The filter doesn't get as dirty as you would expect. Do you really think that you pick up as much dirt as you are suggesting? Fact of the matter is, you don't. Again here is something you have never tried.

I really think that before you start claiming you know the answers, that you at least have first hand experience with the issues. You can spout off everything you know about temperatures and sensors for the car. Fact of the matter is, before you say you know whats up, it would be nice if you would actually try it out.

lol just post a dyno and shut everyone up.... until then numbers are just numbers... It's not even about proving yourself, it's just ediquette to post a dyno sheet when you make note of your extreme hp numbers on every single post via your sig.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but not posting a dyno is just rediculous, and fishy.

posting a dyno sheet does nothing.

I thought your car never saw rain. J/K man. BTW, thanks for the info the the neon tranny.

It's called putting your money where your mouth is.

And yes, I am very familiar with water injection and intercooler spraying. I'm not doubting that with a shit-ass fuel management system (fuel pressure tuning *doesn't* count), you could lean out by adjusting the temperature.

My point, however, is that any fuel management worth it's salt, such as a standalone, a megasquirt, a DFI, or anything similar, would have no problem compensating for a slight difference in temperature. As my post said before (were you too stupid to fucking understand it?), intake temperature tuning is integral and intrinsic to speed density. If you really want to subvert that, use mass air. Good luck finding an aftermarket fuel management tuning system that uses mass air, however.

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
It's called putting your money where your mouth is. And yes, I am very familiar with water injection and intercooler spraying. I'm not doubting that with a shit-ass fuel management system (fuel pressure tuning *doesn't* count), you could lean out by adjusting the temperature. My point, however, is that any fuel management worth it's salt, such as a standalone, a megasquirt, a DFI, or anything similar, would have no problem compensating for a slight difference in temperature. As my post said before (were you too stupid to fucking understand it?), intake temperature tuning is integral and intrinsic to speed density. If you really want to subvert that, use mass air. Good luck finding an aftermarket fuel management tuning system that uses mass air, however.

Saying that tuning for a sprayer is bad is pretty dumb. I agree with Ducking_Fumbass on this. I mean that's like saying that tuning for race gas is dumb because you're not always running it.

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
It's called putting your money where your mouth is. And yes, I am very familiar with water injection and intercooler spraying. I'm not doubting that with a shit-ass fuel management system (fuel pressure tuning *doesn't* count), you could lean out by adjusting the temperature. My point, however, is that any fuel management worth it's salt, such as a standalone, a megasquirt, a DFI, or anything similar, would have no problem compensating for a slight difference in temperature. As my post said before (were you too stupid to fucking understand it?), intake temperature tuning is integral and intrinsic to speed density. If you really want to subvert that, use mass air. Good luck finding an aftermarket fuel management tuning system that uses mass air, however.

Damn straight... you saved me having to type it buddy. ;)

If you spray and you lean out, then your fuel system fucking sucks.
It's as simple as that...
"Oh no, I better not get that big intercooler, it might make my intake temps too cool, then I'll run lean" HAHA yeah right... come on, learn the fuck up and study physics people! And study how a good fuel injection control system works...

OK, back on topic...

Sorry to say it people but a cold air intake for a turbo WILL make a small difference... so long as it's placed in a safe place... ;)
Think about it... the temperature rise of the air for a certain turbo is governed by the turbo... but the temperature rise is all relative to the air temp that entered the turbo...
If Turbo X has a temp rise or 150 degrees over the ambient... then with ambient air at 100 degrees you'll have 250 degree air coming out the turbo... and if you have 50 degree air going in you'll get 200 degree air coming out of the turbo...
Now by the time it gets to your intake manifold the temps will be a lot closer together... all you'll basically achieve is giving the intercooler less work to do...

Think about it people, think about it.

Originally posted by siueclipse
posting a dyno sheet does nothing.

Posting a dyno sheet shows your not full of crap. It backs up your claims. I've got guys from your area telling me that your not putting anywhere near 400hp down. In fact one guy says your lucky if your putting down 300hp. When asked about all the claims you have made on here all the guys from your area said you were full of crap and a liar at best. One guy actually just laughed at me when I said you were making 93K a year.

The dude has a point, as invalid as you may think it is. I'm not coming down on you but I think its time you finally posted a dyno sheet and settled this once and for all. If you have a video that would be even more concrete.

i'm surprised any of you even believed him. c,mon, just by his fuel system, clutch and no data. sorry but i cannot believe you did that amount of HP. just be straight out with everyone James. there's no need to make things up. what you're doing is making guys here consider taking your setup and believe can make this power. you'll end up having guys blow up at the end. you know how much fuel you need for that 380whp? you need about a fuel volume of 700cc's to handle that much HP. i'm sorry but you definitely need to post a video or a pic on that dyno sheet. everyone on here is skeptical on this claim. yeah we don't have to believe you, but i guess you'll never get the respect. when i reach my whp goal, i'll be proud to post my dyno sheet and discuss the tuning process and the whole nine yards. if you say you like helping people like you say, don't post false info. be honest here.

Yeah right. He is making 380fwhp with ebay hoses and the HRC 2.25" clamp on downpipe attached to his stock exhaust. And a SFMU, LOL! You should be maimed and beaten you fucking liar.

Originally posted by Mattchew

Originally posted by siueclipse posting a dyno sheet does nothing.

Posting a dyno sheet shows your not full of crap. It backs up your claims. I've got guys from your area telling me that your not putting anywhere near 400hp down. In fact one guy says your lucky if your putting down 300hp. When asked about all the claims you have made on here all the guys from your area said you were full of crap and a liar at best. One guy actually just laughed at me when I said you were making 93K a year.

he says he clears 3500 somehthing every 2 weeks, which only equats to 86k anywho, what a choad!

DWAYNE H
1996 eclipse
under construction widebody eclipse, targa top, 19inch rollers, big brakes, 10 point custom cage, frank 2.4 hrc s20g turbo, custom marble paint job

2000 Yamaha R-1, 165rwhp 117 ftlbs tq

ALMOST THERE...... MUWHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally posted by Thunderous_Talon
a man could build a thousand bridges, and suck one cock. he'll forever be known as a cocksucker.

We've got a few good cold air opinions and too many opinions on the guy's car and personal life. Thats about all we need.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
Now with more power and fewer leaks



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire