ok, ive done alot of reading on backed posts in the turbo forum over the past few weeks while my car is down as far as what all i want to replace at one time when i get the rebuilt motor back. and basically what it boils down to is i'm hearing one thing here and something vastly different from my tuner, which shall remain nameless. the concensus here (2gnt) seems to be that with the following setup:

rebuilt motor
2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit)
HRC FMIC
cartech FPR
OEM everything else (injectors, etc)

i should stop at 9psi. however, according to my tuner the cartech coupled with stock inj's should be able to handle up to 12 pounds.
so there's my dilemma. ideally when i get the car back i'd like to run 12-15 psi daily. im willing to buy the SFMU and 440s now if i have to, but i'd like to hold off on the SAFC and the Walbro 255 if possible. so, can 12-15 be done without adding anything to my list above?

ps - new clutch and downpipe are also on the to do list but my OEM grabber has been good to me so far so it's not getting pulled just yet. unless i come across a deal or I get 10 ppl here screaming at me that it wont last 6 months at 10+ psi.

There is no way in hell that you can run 12psi on stock injectors ... you'd be running OVER 150psi of fuel pressure assuming you keep at least a 9:1 or 10:1 rise rate. That's just nuts. And if your tuner says otherwise ... well you should find another guy. Also you rebuilt motor consists of what exactly? Stock rebuild? What compression?

VT rebuild most likely, still waiting for the final insurance payout to decide. VTs are 8.8:1
does anyone know what the deal is with HRCs new stage 3 kit. i talked to bill a few weeks ago and he said they were still in testing the new stuff, but has anyone talked to him recently? i may just buy his stage 3 kit all at once. (i think its supposed to be injectors, downpipe, and maybe the SFMU)

if you can tune it really well w/o an incident (or a couple) of knock then the extra fuel should be enough. The bad thing is this has been very difficult for many to obtain. DO NOT do it with stock injecors though, you need some bigger ones.

Another thing to take into consideration is that the stock rods fail at around 13psi, this has been shown (not proven).

IMO, unless your tuner is willing to stake his wallet on it, dont risk it.

Originally posted by Chamuko
if you can tune it really well w/o an incident (or a couple) of knock then the extra fuel should be enough. The bad thing is this has been very difficult for many to obtain. DO NOT do it with stock injecors though, you need some bigger ones. Another thing to take into consideration is that the stock rods fail at around 13psi, this has been shown (not proven). IMO, unless your tuner is willing to stake his wallet on it, dont risk it.

i wont be on stock anything below the cylinder head.

Originally posted by Chamuko
if you can tune it really well w/o an incident (or a couple) of knock then the extra fuel should be enough. The bad thing is this has been very difficult for many to obtain. DO NOT do it with stock injecors though, you need some bigger ones. Another thing to take into consideration is that the stock rods fail at around 13psi, this has been shown (not proven). IMO, unless your tuner is willing to stake his wallet on it, dont risk it.

not entirely true there is one guy on this board that ran his to like 19 psi and the rods were fine. It was posted on a private board but i can get his name for you if you want proof to ask.

Terry


96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

""2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit""

interesting.. my 3" exhaust fits.

Originally posted by siueclipse
""2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit"" interesting.. my 3" exhaust fits.

your car isnt lowered 5"

Originally posted by cyan

Originally posted by siueclipse ""2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit"" interesting.. my 3" exhaust fits.

your car isnt lowered 5"

my exhaust doesn't hang below the frame either.

Originally posted by cyan
ok, ive done alot of reading on backed posts in the turbo forum over the past few weeks while my car is down as far as what all i want to replace at one time when i get the rebuilt motor back. and basically what it boils down to is i'm hearing one thing here and something vastly different from my tuner, which shall remain nameless. the concensus here (2gnt) seems to be that with the following setup: rebuilt motor 2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit) HRC FMIC cartech FPR OEM everything else (injectors, etc) i should stop at 9psi. however, according to my tuner the cartech coupled with stock inj's should be able to handle up to 12 pounds. so there's my dilemma. ideally when i get the car back i'd like to run 12-15 psi daily. im willing to buy the SFMU and 440s now if i have to, but i'd like to hold off on the SAFC and the Walbro 255 if possible. so, can 12-15 be done without adding anything to my list above? ps - new clutch and downpipe are also on the to do list but my OEM grabber has been good to me so far so it's not getting pulled just yet. unless i come across a deal or I get 10 ppl here screaming at me that it wont last 6 months at 10+ psi.

Well you are going to get attacked for this one buddy. Lets analyze why though.

Ok on stock Inj and a cartech your tuner says ok to go 9psi. the idea of the cartechis to raise the FP to high rates to basically get more fuel past the open injector to support the higher air comming in. The only problem with that is the stock pump wont flow enough fuel or reach the high pressure the cartech needs to produce. So you see 9psi is tough and going to the point that you are taking a risk but you will be required to have the 255 walbro.

Now you want to run 12-15psi. ok so we have established that you need the fuel pump regardless, no way to avoid that. you will most def need larger injectors and the SFMU is a plus. a few guys here have done it with the cartech, its just not quite as easy to tune with,but can be done carefully. Running 440's without a afc is possible but it will be very hard to get the A/F ratio tuned perfectly. This is all nice but the real problem will be your pistons. The ring lands have a hard time holding up to this abuse. If you manage to get the fuel tuned perfectly and have no detonation (close to impossible) then the pistons will withstand 10psi max. If you detonate at all, and we have a problem with the 4500 range the pistons will give. You can go cheap and have forged pistons put on stock rods and that will hold up to 19psi but whats another 300.00 for rods. one member has run 19psi on forged weisco's and stock rods with no problems. He changed out the rods because he went 2.4 i think.

Hope this answers your concerns. Tell you tuner this isnt a 4g63 motor.

Terry



96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Why do you say the 3" exhaust wont fit.....i have one on my car and working on the 3"dp now.

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by cyan ok, ive done alot of reading on backed posts in the turbo forum over the past few weeks while my car is down as far as what all i want to replace at one time when i get the rebuilt motor back. and basically what it boils down to is i'm hearing one thing here and something vastly different from my tuner, which shall remain nameless. the concensus here (2gnt) seems to be that with the following setup: rebuilt motor 2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit) HRC FMIC cartech FPR OEM everything else (injectors, etc) i should stop at 9psi. however, according to my tuner the cartech coupled with stock inj's should be able to handle up to 12 pounds. so there's my dilemma. ideally when i get the car back i'd like to run 12-15 psi daily. im willing to buy the SFMU and 440s now if i have to, but i'd like to hold off on the SAFC and the Walbro 255 if possible. so, can 12-15 be done without adding anything to my list above? ps - new clutch and downpipe are also on the to do list but my OEM grabber has been good to me so far so it's not getting pulled just yet. unless i come across a deal or I get 10 ppl here screaming at me that it wont last 6 months at 10+ psi.

Well you are going to get attacked for this one buddy. Lets analyze why though. Ok on stock Inj and a cartech your tuner says ok to go 9psi. the idea of the cartechis to raise the FP to high rates to basically get more fuel past the open injector to support the higher air comming in. The only problem with that is the stock pump wont flow enough fuel or reach the high pressure the cartech needs to produce. So you see 9psi is tough and going to the point that you are taking a risk but you will be required to have the 255 walbro. Now you want to run 12-15psi. ok so we have established that you need the fuel pump regardless, no way to avoid that. you will most def need larger injectors and the SFMU is a plus. a few guys here have done it with the cartech, its just not quite as easy to tune with,but can be done carefully. Running 440's without a afc is possible but it will be very hard to get the A/F ratio tuned perfectly. This is all nice but the real problem will be your pistons. The ring lands have a hard time holding up to this abuse. If you manage to get the fuel tuned perfectly and have no detonation (close to impossible) then the pistons will withstand 10psi max. If you detonate at all, and we have a problem with the 4500 range the pistons will give. You can go cheap and have forged pistons put on stock rods and that will hold up to 19psi but whats another 300.00 for rods. one member has run 19psi on forged weisco's and stock rods with no problems. He changed out the rods because he went 2.4 i think. Hope this answers your concerns. Tell you tuner this isnt a 4g63 motor. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges 97 Eclipse Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

apprently no one is seeing the very first item on my list of modifications...it says "rebuild." rebuilt motors aren't bothered with the problems of stock pistons and rods...so that won't be a problem for me. but thanks for all the fuel system info. and concerning the 3" exhaust...bill hahn climbed under his RS for me and measured how much ground clearance the RS's Thermal R&D 3" pipe had under the crossmember...it was 6" and his RS is barely lowered. meaning i would have roughly 1" of clearance between the pipe and the asphalt...not exactly a gamble i want to throw $500 at.

last time i check hahns site their rs was lowered 1.5 inchs. the back of the car is stock height. I would woudnt gauge the world onhahn. 1 year agot they told me my Stock ECU could run 550cc inj onits own....yes we all know that is crap. i called a month ago and then they tell me i would need to use the sfmu....i ask about an afc and then he tells me yes you would need that too. the point is i had to figure it out whil on the phone we wasnt just giving out the answers and telling me what would be needed to use his injectors. 1 year ago i called about the SAFC and if it would be needed if i bought his injectors. I have no confidence in what bill hahn says.

I have a 2.5 DP with my star kit and about 6 inchs clearance with a 1.75 drop (prokit) 3 inch is only .5 larger so if i make it tightenough you are talking 5.5 inch clearance. I dont blame you being cautious.

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

wow , 19 pounds is impressive. I apologise If I was/am wrong. From personal knoledge that is the "safety" margin. I know tommyboy has done a couple of builds with stock rods.

You learn something new everyday. Mind if I ask for how long and with what supporting mods? In another thread pls so I wont hijack this one anymore.

let me look it up tonight see if the guy will post here. or i will email you the details with his permission of course..:)

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

here ya go it was on this board i read it.

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=66082&mesg_id=66082&listing_type=search

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Originally posted by cyan

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by cyan ok, ive done alot of reading on backed posts in the turbo forum over the past few weeks while my car is down as far as what all i want to replace at one time when i get the rebuilt motor back. and basically what it boils down to is i'm hearing one thing here and something vastly different from my tuner, which shall remain nameless. the concensus here (2gnt) seems to be that with the following setup: rebuilt motor 2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit) HRC FMIC cartech FPR OEM everything else (injectors, etc) i should stop at 9psi. however, according to my tuner the cartech coupled with stock inj's should be able to handle up to 12 pounds. so there's my dilemma. ideally when i get the car back i'd like to run 12-15 psi daily. im willing to buy the SFMU and 440s now if i have to, but i'd like to hold off on the SAFC and the Walbro 255 if possible. so, can 12-15 be done without adding anything to my list above? ps - new clutch and downpipe are also on the to do list but my OEM grabber has been good to me so far so it's not getting pulled just yet. unless i come across a deal or I get 10 ppl here screaming at me that it wont last 6 months at 10+ psi.

Well you are going to get attacked for this one buddy. Lets analyze why though. Ok on stock Inj and a cartech your tuner says ok to go 9psi. the idea of the cartechis to raise the FP to high rates to basically get more fuel past the open injector to support the higher air comming in. The only problem with that is the stock pump wont flow enough fuel or reach the high pressure the cartech needs to produce. So you see 9psi is tough and going to the point that you are taking a risk but you will be required to have the 255 walbro. Now you want to run 12-15psi. ok so we have established that you need the fuel pump regardless, no way to avoid that. you will most def need larger injectors and the SFMU is a plus. a few guys here have done it with the cartech, its just not quite as easy to tune with,but can be done carefully. Running 440's without a afc is possible but it will be very hard to get the A/F ratio tuned perfectly. This is all nice but the real problem will be your pistons. The ring lands have a hard time holding up to this abuse. If you manage to get the fuel tuned perfectly and have no detonation (close to impossible) then the pistons will withstand 10psi max. If you detonate at all, and we have a problem with the 4500 range the pistons will give. You can go cheap and have forged pistons put on stock rods and that will hold up to 19psi but whats another 300.00 for rods. one member has run 19psi on forged weisco's and stock rods with no problems. He changed out the rods because he went 2.4 i think. Hope this answers your concerns. Tell you tuner this isnt a 4g63 motor. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges 97 Eclipse Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

apprently no one is seeing the very first item on my list of modifications...it says "rebuild." rebuilt motors aren't bothered with the problems of stock pistons and rods...so that won't be a problem for me. but thanks for all the fuel system info. and concerning the 3" exhaust...bill hahn climbed under his RS for me and measured how much ground clearance the RS's Thermal R&D 3" pipe had under the crossmember...it was 6" and his RS is barely lowered. meaning i would have roughly 1" of clearance between the pipe and the asphalt...not exactly a gamble i want to throw $500 at.

a rebuild is a motor with stock rods....if you "built" the bottom end then state it. Dont assume people know what you did to your motor. Nice arrogant comment for someone trying to explain things to you that you should be searching noob. As far as i am concerned you can just figure it out on your own.

Terry


96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

You'd be maxing out duty cycle and running obscene fuel pressures that will fry your injectors. I'd like to see the fuel calcs your tuner is using.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
So. All that's left, is... everything - Jesse James

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by cyan

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by cyan ok, ive done alot of reading on backed posts in the turbo forum over the past few weeks while my car is down as far as what all i want to replace at one time when i get the rebuilt motor back. and basically what it boils down to is i'm hearing one thing here and something vastly different from my tuner, which shall remain nameless. the concensus here (2gnt) seems to be that with the following setup: rebuilt motor 2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit) HRC FMIC cartech FPR OEM everything else (injectors, etc) i should stop at 9psi. however, according to my tuner the cartech coupled with stock inj's should be able to handle up to 12 pounds. so there's my dilemma. ideally when i get the car back i'd like to run 12-15 psi daily. im willing to buy the SFMU and 440s now if i have to, but i'd like to hold off on the SAFC and the Walbro 255 if possible. so, can 12-15 be done without adding anything to my list above? ps - new clutch and downpipe are also on the to do list but my OEM grabber has been good to me so far so it's not getting pulled just yet. unless i come across a deal or I get 10 ppl here screaming at me that it wont last 6 months at 10+ psi.

Well you are going to get attacked for this one buddy. Lets analyze why though. Ok on stock Inj and a cartech your tuner says ok to go 9psi. the idea of the cartechis to raise the FP to high rates to basically get more fuel past the open injector to support the higher air comming in. The only problem with that is the stock pump wont flow enough fuel or reach the high pressure the cartech needs to produce. So you see 9psi is tough and going to the point that you are taking a risk but you will be required to have the 255 walbro. Now you want to run 12-15psi. ok so we have established that you need the fuel pump regardless, no way to avoid that. you will most def need larger injectors and the SFMU is a plus. a few guys here have done it with the cartech, its just not quite as easy to tune with,but can be done carefully. Running 440's without a afc is possible but it will be very hard to get the A/F ratio tuned perfectly. This is all nice but the real problem will be your pistons. The ring lands have a hard time holding up to this abuse. If you manage to get the fuel tuned perfectly and have no detonation (close to impossible) then the pistons will withstand 10psi max. If you detonate at all, and we have a problem with the 4500 range the pistons will give. You can go cheap and have forged pistons put on stock rods and that will hold up to 19psi but whats another 300.00 for rods. one member has run 19psi on forged weisco's and stock rods with no problems. He changed out the rods because he went 2.4 i think. Hope this answers your concerns. Tell you tuner this isnt a 4g63 motor. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges 97 Eclipse Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

apprently no one is seeing the very first item on my list of modifications...it says "rebuild." rebuilt motors aren't bothered with the problems of stock pistons and rods...so that won't be a problem for me. but thanks for all the fuel system info. and concerning the 3" exhaust...bill hahn climbed under his RS for me and measured how much ground clearance the RS's Thermal R&D 3" pipe had under the crossmember...it was 6" and his RS is barely lowered. meaning i would have roughly 1" of clearance between the pipe and the asphalt...not exactly a gamble i want to throw $500 at.

a rebuild is a motor with stock rods....if you "built" the bottom end then state it. Dont assume people know what you did to your motor. Nice arrogant comment for someone trying to explain things to you that you should be searching noob. As far as i am concerned you can just figure it out on your own. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges 97 Eclipse Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

I get a kick out of you. Your calling someone a n00b that has been here a helluva lot longer than me. He doesn't even want any of your stupid comments. He's decided what he wants. And if your going to be all anal about the "rebuild" then shut up. He obviously "built" his motor if he's going turbo. You sound like the person that would turn me into the vocabulary police if i said i 'rebuilt my motor with forged internals'. Rebuilt is more than a sufficient word. i thought you didn't care. he said it was a vt rebuild before you even posted in this thead.

Cyan, my advice still remains, i wouldn't push more than what you've heard on your block. If its from vt, i don't think we even need to talk about the block. as far as using the cartech, im not sure. i've heard its just a pain in the ass, hence the name craptech. try a vortec, and there were some 30lb injects in the forsale forum for 70 shipped, and there was a walbro 255 for sale for 55 also. just splurge a little bit of money and get'er done ;)

A new walbro is about a 100 bucks, and injects shouldn't be much either. anyways. dont listen to the real 2gnt.com board noobies. we need a mute button for them sometimes. And as far as someone pushing 19 psi, i say you back that up by showing us. ill sit back and watch you toast your motor before you could even get it tuned....NOOB.

damn.

EDIT:
"Nice arrogant comment for someone trying to explain things to you that you should be searching noob"

your not explaining a damn thing to him, cept for the fact that YOU are the noob. did you not even read that he was, "searching back posts in the forums" ????? SHUT UP you asshat. your not helping. your a fucking dick. and im "STATING IT"... :rolleyes


"1 year agot they told me my Stock ECU could run 550cc inj onits own....yes we all know that is crap."

HAHAHAHHAHA. NOW, you do......LOL!

wow, guess I skipped over that post. I noticed that most of the OG guys noted tommyboy lol. Im keeping in mind that this is MrSlick, who IMO can tune his car and knows what he is doing. Nice to now that someone has done it, I just dont think everyone can play with fire like that. Especially if cyan's tuner is telling him that the stick injectors can handle what he will be asking of them.

Tommyboy lives 80mi from here, about an hour. I talk to him once in a while.So till I see other wise (more then one time or one person) that most people can push 19psi on their block for an extended period of time reliably, I will continue to "suggest" that 13psi is a safe bet IMO.

I would assume that the reason for the stock rods is a financial decision. If that is the case, then this indivodual would not want to destroy a rod ( possibly damaging the rest of the block) and have to buy a new bottom end and/or rebuild again. Now on the other hand if he is proving a point or is just buying time then by all means, so it. That is just cool...

Cyan, You may remember me or you may not but here goes... You can get a 3 inch exhaust that goes over the cross member so you won't have to worry about your clerence, and can still get the benefits of the 3". As for the fuel, the pump is a must not an option. You can run 10 psi on your stock injects with a craptech, but I wouldn't. It's not a reliable enough platform for my investment to ride on. I have the star kit with a 3" exhaust that goes over the cross member, and I use the 8 inj setup. You will need some larger injectors for the PSI you plan to run IMO. You could try to run those pressures on stock injects but I wouldn't...

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by cyan

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by cyan ok, ive done alot of reading on backed posts in the turbo forum over the past few weeks while my car is down as far as what all i want to replace at one time when i get the rebuilt motor back. and basically what it boils down to is i'm hearing one thing here and something vastly different from my tuner, which shall remain nameless. the concensus here (2gnt) seems to be that with the following setup: rebuilt motor 2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit) HRC FMIC cartech FPR OEM everything else (injectors, etc) i should stop at 9psi. however, according to my tuner the cartech coupled with stock inj's should be able to handle up to 12 pounds. so there's my dilemma. ideally when i get the car back i'd like to run 12-15 psi daily. im willing to buy the SFMU and 440s now if i have to, but i'd like to hold off on the SAFC and the Walbro 255 if possible. so, can 12-15 be done without adding anything to my list above? ps - new clutch and downpipe are also on the to do list but my OEM grabber has been good to me so far so it's not getting pulled just yet. unless i come across a deal or I get 10 ppl here screaming at me that it wont last 6 months at 10+ psi.

Well you are going to get attacked for this one buddy. Lets analyze why though. Ok on stock Inj and a cartech your tuner says ok to go 9psi. the idea of the cartechis to raise the FP to high rates to basically get more fuel past the open injector to support the higher air comming in. The only problem with that is the stock pump wont flow enough fuel or reach the high pressure the cartech needs to produce. So you see 9psi is tough and going to the point that you are taking a risk but you will be required to have the 255 walbro. Now you want to run 12-15psi. ok so we have established that you need the fuel pump regardless, no way to avoid that. you will most def need larger injectors and the SFMU is a plus. a few guys here have done it with the cartech, its just not quite as easy to tune with,but can be done carefully. Running 440's without a afc is possible but it will be very hard to get the A/F ratio tuned perfectly. This is all nice but the real problem will be your pistons. The ring lands have a hard time holding up to this abuse. If you manage to get the fuel tuned perfectly and have no detonation (close to impossible) then the pistons will withstand 10psi max. If you detonate at all, and we have a problem with the 4500 range the pistons will give. You can go cheap and have forged pistons put on stock rods and that will hold up to 19psi but whats another 300.00 for rods. one member has run 19psi on forged weisco's and stock rods with no problems. He changed out the rods because he went 2.4 i think. Hope this answers your concerns. Tell you tuner this isnt a 4g63 motor. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges 97 Eclipse Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

apprently no one is seeing the very first item on my list of modifications...it says "rebuild." rebuilt motors aren't bothered with the problems of stock pistons and rods...so that won't be a problem for me. but thanks for all the fuel system info. and concerning the 3" exhaust...bill hahn climbed under his RS for me and measured how much ground clearance the RS's Thermal R&D 3" pipe had under the crossmember...it was 6" and his RS is barely lowered. meaning i would have roughly 1" of clearance between the pipe and the asphalt...not exactly a gamble i want to throw $500 at.

a rebuild is a motor with stock rods....if you "built" the bottom end then state it. Dont assume people know what you did to your motor. Nice arrogant comment for someone trying to explain things to you that you should be searching noob. As far as i am concerned you can just figure it out on your own. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges 97 Eclipse Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

you're a fucking retard dude...i have been on this board for SIX YEARS. i was here before you even thought of buying a 2g, and i know full well how to search the archives. the entire point of this thread was that i DID search the archives, and the results i was seeing were contradictory to what i am hearing from the man who produced the damn turbo kit that's on my car. if i'm a noob you are a fucking fetus. next time i ask for help you can safely assume your input is not wanted. and since you don't seem to know it already, VT does NOT use stock rods (or pistons for that matter) on their rebuilds...i dont know where you heard that from NOOB

about the exhaust...the one i was looking at was the thermal R&D which goes under the crossmember. a few of the other 3" exhausts that go over the member arent truly 3", for example i think the metric conversion of the Apex'i makes it 2.8" or so.

thanks to everyone who made a legitimate effort at answering this question for me. kirby, i remember you dude, i need to check into that exhaust you have. if its a full 3" and above the crossmember without rattling i may get it. the problem is i need 3" exhaust piping, i dont need a muffler because i need 2 of them for my rear bumper. i dont want to pay all that cash for an apex'i just to cut off the muffler and toss it.

Originally posted by cyan

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by cyan

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by cyan ok, ive done alot of reading on backed posts in the turbo forum over the past few weeks while my car is down as far as what all i want to replace at one time when i get the rebuilt motor back. and basically what it boils down to is i'm hearing one thing here and something vastly different from my tuner, which shall remain nameless. the concensus here (2gnt) seems to be that with the following setup: rebuilt motor 2.5" exhaust (don't bother recommending a 3" it wont fit) HRC FMIC cartech FPR OEM everything else (injectors, etc) i should stop at 9psi. however, according to my tuner the cartech coupled with stock inj's should be able to handle up to 12 pounds. so there's my dilemma. ideally when i get the car back i'd like to run 12-15 psi daily. im willing to buy the SFMU and 440s now if i have to, but i'd like to hold off on the SAFC and the Walbro 255 if possible. so, can 12-15 be done without adding anything to my list above? ps - new clutch and downpipe are also on the to do list but my OEM grabber has been good to me so far so it's not getting pulled just yet. unless i come across a deal or I get 10 ppl here screaming at me that it wont last 6 months at 10+ psi.

Well you are going to get attacked for this one buddy. Lets analyze why though. Ok on stock Inj and a cartech your tuner says ok to go 9psi. the idea of the cartechis to raise the FP to high rates to basically get more fuel past the open injector to support the higher air comming in. The only problem with that is the stock pump wont flow enough fuel or reach the high pressure the cartech needs to produce. So you see 9psi is tough and going to the point that you are taking a risk but you will be required to have the 255 walbro. Now you want to run 12-15psi. ok so we have established that you need the fuel pump regardless, no way to avoid that. you will most def need larger injectors and the SFMU is a plus. a few guys here have done it with the cartech, its just not quite as easy to tune with,but can be done carefully. Running 440's without a afc is possible but it will be very hard to get the A/F ratio tuned perfectly. This is all nice but the real problem will be your pistons. The ring lands have a hard time holding up to this abuse. If you manage to get the fuel tuned perfectly and have no detonation (close to impossible) then the pistons will withstand 10psi max. If you detonate at all, and we have a problem with the 4500 range the pistons will give. You can go cheap and have forged pistons put on stock rods and that will hold up to 19psi but whats another 300.00 for rods. one member has run 19psi on forged weisco's and stock rods with no problems. He changed out the rods because he went 2.4 i think. Hope this answers your concerns. Tell you tuner this isnt a 4g63 motor. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges 97 Eclipse Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

apprently no one is seeing the very first item on my list of modifications...it says "rebuild." rebuilt motors aren't bothered with the problems of stock pistons and rods...so that won't be a problem for me. but thanks for all the fuel system info. and concerning the 3" exhaust...bill hahn climbed under his RS for me and measured how much ground clearance the RS's Thermal R&D 3" pipe had under the crossmember...it was 6" and his RS is barely lowered. meaning i would have roughly 1" of clearance between the pipe and the asphalt...not exactly a gamble i want to throw $500 at.

a rebuild is a motor with stock rods....if you "built" the bottom end then state it. Dont assume people know what you did to your motor. Nice arrogant comment for someone trying to explain things to you that you should be searching noob. As far as i am concerned you can just figure it out on your own. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges 97 Eclipse Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

you're a fucking retard dude...i have been on this board for SIX YEARS. i was here before you even thought of buying a 2g, and i know full well how to search the archives. the entire point of this thread was that i DID search the archives, and the results i was seeing were contradictory to what i am hearing from the man who produced the damn turbo kit that's on my car. if i'm a noob you are a fucking fetus. next time i ask for help you can safely assume your input is not wanted. and since you don't seem to know it already, VT does NOT use stock rods (or pistons for that matter) on their rebuilds...i dont know where you heard that from NOOB about the exhaust...the one i was looking at was the thermal R&D which goes under the crossmember. a few of the other 3" exhausts that go over the member arent truly 3", for example i think the metric conversion of the Apex'i makes it 2.8" or so. thanks to everyone who made a legitimate effort at answering this question for me. kirby, i remember you dude, i need to check into that exhaust you have. if its a full 3" and above the crossmember without rattling i may get it. the problem is i need 3" exhaust piping, i dont need a muffler because i need 2 of them for my rear bumper. i dont want to pay all that cash for an apex'i just to cut off the muffler and toss it.

I'm pretty sure the greddy goes over the crossmember. But if you are using duals, then you wouldn't really need 3" all the way back, would you? 3" to your "Y" to be sure, but I would say 2.5" to the muffler from there would be fine. Or am I missing something?

As for using stock injectors... well you've had your answer.

I'm still on my stock clutch, and been boosting 11psi for a while. 15K miles at least. Still grabs like a champ. I'm going to switch eventually, but I want to see how this sucker will last.

if you are running 3" most of the way and then crimp the size down to 2.5" to weld in the mufflers you are pretty much taking away the reason for getting a 3" exhaust, as flow is going to get restricted right at then creating the back pressure you are tying to aliviate.

Originally posted by whodatt1
if you are running 3" most of the way and then crimp the size down to 2.5" to weld in the mufflers you are pretty much taking away the reason for getting a 3" exhaust, as flow is going to get restricted right at then creating the back pressure you are tying to aliviate.

Not if it's two 2.5" pipes. As in a 3" split to two 2.5" pipes.

yes it would still create a barrier. when you have air flowing through 3" of pipe and its suddenly hitting a bottleneck, it could have 100 exhaust pipes coming out of the adapter, but theres still a barrier that disrupts the exhaust flow

2.5" is big enough anyhow....imo

Acctualy Cyan 2.5 would prolly be fine for you. You will loose a little spool up time (depending on the turbo) And your higher boost setting would be a little lower to compensate, but at the boost levels you are planning on running, I think it would be ok...

EDIT: There are a few different companys who make a 3" catback that goes over the member, but It doesn't sound like that will really let you keep the dual exhaust setup unless you wanted to make it non functional...