I think this might have been a little tricky for the search, as I got all kinds of results, but nothing I was really looking for. :shrug

Should be a simple question though. If you run an 8 injector setup with the 034EFI, and you've got 24lb'ers for primaries, couldn't you still make use of an SAFC to adjust the primaries until boost? Or would the SAFC's modifying the signal to the ECU interfere with the 034 and result in things going kaBOOM? :P

Just thinking down the road some day actually. I'm looking at needing a SAFC to lean out the idle because of low vacuum levels caused by Crower 2s, but I think I would need to keep it if I went turbo since the 034 only controls the secondaries.

See what I mean?

Thanks

like i ask everyone who has the 8 injector setup...what the fuck do you need 8 injectors for? :wary :shrug

4 has been proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN, its all about the fuel management

<cough>

i.e- megasquirt

Originally posted by DR1665
I think this might have been a little tricky for the search, as I got all kinds of results, but nothing I was really looking for. :shrug Should be a simple question though. If you run an 8 injector setup with the 034EFI, and you've got 24lb'ers for primaries, couldn't you still make use of an SAFC to adjust the primaries until boost? Or would the SAFC's modifying the signal to the ECU interfere with the 034 and result in things going kaBOOM? :P Just thinking down the road some day actually. I'm looking at needing a SAFC to lean out the idle because of low vacuum levels caused by Crower 2s, but I think I would need to keep it if I went turbo since the 034 only controls the secondaries. See what I mean? Thanks

What you thinking man? Why bother with the 8 injector setup?
For the same money or less you can have the Megasquirt running the show...
Once I get done with all my car work that I got going on right now with the new motor and stuff then I'll get back to work on my Megasquirt writeup... Gotta get the impending childbirth out the way too! LOL

Wait till you see all the shit that my Megasquirt is gonna controlling soon... you'll shit.

Hit me up on AIM or email if ya have any questions...

Originally posted by DR1665
If you run an 8 injector setup with the 034EFI, and you've got 24lb'ers for primaries, couldn't you still make use of an SAFC to adjust the primaries until boost? Or would the SAFC's modifying the signal to the ECU interfere with the 034 and result in things going kaBOOM? :P Just thinking down the road some day actually. I'm looking at needing a SAFC to lean out the idle because of low vacuum levels caused by Crower 2s, but I think I would need to keep it if I went turbo since the 034 only controls the secondaries. See what I mean? Thanks

Hey Doc, there would really be no point to using an SAFC just to control your primaries. the stock ECU runs that show, as you know. Yea, we may run a bit rich from the factory but its certainly not anything worth wiring up an SAFC for...
however, if you so chose... the SAFC would only "tweak" with the stock MAP siganl. the 034EFI uses its own MAP sensor and a tach signal as its tools for adjusting fuel. about the only way i could see the SAFC being of ANY real use is if you did a lot of partial throttle boosting, but then again that wouldn't be all that advisible on stock injectors, so...

No, theres no use for the SAFC with the 034EFI. someone feel free to correct me if im wrong.

Originally posted by DR1665
If you run an 8 injector setup with the 034EFI, and you've got 24lb'ers for primaries, couldn't you still make use of an SAFC to adjust the primaries until boost?

yes

Originally posted by DR1665
Or would the SAFC's modifying the signal to the ECU interfere with the 034 and result in things going kaBOOM?

yes, but.....

Originally posted by DR1665
I'm looking at needing a SAFC to lean out the idle because of low vacuum levels caused by Crower 2s, but I think I would need to keep it if I went turbo since the 034 only controls the secondaries.

....if you ONLY use it to control the idle then you don't have to worry about exploding because of it. Both the 8-injector and "rising rate type" systems use the stock ignition, so with either one you have to be carefull not to lean the MAP signal under boost. So the answer to the kaboom question is yes IF you lean the MAP to the point where the ECU pushes too much timing under too much boost. But its fine to use one to tune from idle to low rpm.

Originally posted by DR1665
See what I mean?

yes


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
15.7 @ 87.9mph
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

Thanks for the input fellas. I guess boom was the wrong way to word it. :P I'm looking to go big when I do go turbo and won't be seeing much boost before about 3500rpm. }( With my Crower 2s, I'd like to keep a sleepy stock idle and not run all shitty because of the lower vac provided by the more aggressive cam profiles. If the Megasquirt will do the 8 injectors, maybe I should do some more research into it. I'm just not big on installing anything with a name like that on my car. Sorry, but Megasquirt just sounds super fucking gay to me. I know it is a quality product, I just have issues with the name. :shrug

Originally posted by DR1665
Thanks for the input fellas. I guess boom was the wrong way to word it. :P I'm looking to go big when I do go turbo and won't be seeing much boost before about 3500rpm. }( With my Crower 2s, I'd like to keep a sleepy stock idle and not run all shitty because of the lower vac provided by the more aggressive cam profiles. If the Megasquirt will do the 8 injectors, maybe I should do some more research into it. I'm just not big on installing anything with a name like that on my car. Sorry, but Megasquirt just sounds super fucking gay to me. I know it is a quality product, I just have issues with the name. :shrug

8 Injectors on the Megasquirt? ARRRGGGG.
Your missing the point... the point of the Megasquirt is to use it to control the 4 main injectors... swap in some big injectors, have the Megasquirt running them and your good to go...

And your held up on name? Come on now... would you still use the SAFC if it was the Apexi SHAFT?
:rolleyes

word, megasquirt is the route i went. its sitting right here in front of me, all assembled and ready for me to make a harness for the sensors and shit. i def. think its the best bang for the buck.

Just thought I'd mention...Len's neon ran a best of 10.2 (forgot the speed) just over the weekend. I'll ask him if I can post a timeslip.

oh BTW, fuel is being handled only by the use of a Chill Factory FMU. No other electronics or extra injectors.

Why use 8 when 4 is enough?

I think its all about reliability. At first I didn't think the 98-injector setup was worth the trouble, but for the same price as bigger injectors and an s-fmu you can have an 8 or 6 injectors setup. You don't ever have to worry about the temprature, you don't have to worry about and fluctuation, you don't have to worry about upgrading, it's a one time fuel system that drives great off boost, and even better in boost, or atleast thats what I hope it does because I'm not done with mine yet. Not only that but many of the big guns use this system and I'm not talking eclipses or 4-cyl.

the 8-inj is GOOD! all my issues were because of the "PROGRAMMER" (me) and not the unit or the install. over all the 034efi was super easy to install and once i got help (thanks metaljim) figuring out my alien car needs with it, its awesome!
Plus, with the growing "tech support" from the users on this board, 034efi all the way!

Originally posted by tim97rs
the 8-inj is GOOD! all my issues were because of the "PROGRAMMER" (me) and not the unit or the install. over all the 034efi was super easy to install and once i got help (thanks metaljim) figuring out my alien car needs with it, its awesome! Plus, with the growing "tech support" from the users on this board, 034efi all the way!

The 8 injector setup using the 034efi is indeed good... but it's not the best.
The Megasquirt is way ahead of it when it comes to tuning and functionality... If you don't see why the Megasquirt is better then I'll just have to start making a list I guess!

Also to the guy who posted about Len's 10 second run... indeed you can rubn with just an FMU if you know what your doing... but again you still don't have anywhere near the fine control over the setup and AFR that either the 8 injector or Megasquirt setups have...

FMU > OK
034efi > Good
Megasquirt > Better than good.

It's that simple... depends how good you want to be able to control the setup I guess... when my new motor drops into my car I'll have the following control all from me Megasquirt:

Total Fuel control
Total Ignition control
Nitrous Control
Water Injection control
2 Step Launch Control
Wideband O2 Sensor

That's just a sample of what the Megasquirt can do if you know how... I do need to get my Megasquirt writeup done... once that's up then I think a lot more of you guys will see how easy the Megasquirt is and the benefits of it...

I ran 19psi daily with the Cartech FMU... did it work? Yes... did i want better? Yes... that's why I went with the Megasquirt.

If anyone wants any more info ont eh Megasquirt there is now an active forum online:

http:\\www.msefi.com

Originally posted by babybeclipse
Just thought I'd mention...Len's neon ran a best of 10.2 (forgot the speed) just over the weekend. I'll ask him if I can post a timeslip. oh BTW, fuel is being handled only by the use of a Chill Factory FMU. No other electronics or extra injectors. Why use 8 when 4 is enough?

If I remember right, when Len was with his Neon at the Chi-town meet, he said he ran something like 800-1000 CC injectors..he has to be, to put down the power he is. I'm telling you right now, there is NO WAY he is not running a "secret" type of electronic gadget on those injectors. Your're telling me that you can run that large injector on the stock ECU injector pulsewidth with JUST a rising rate FPR?? I don't think so :) I'm willing to bet money that he is using this "secret" electronic part that HRC has kept hush hush..I saw and heard that Neon run at the meet, and I sure didnt see any mass puffs of black smoke or anything. Just like said, there is very little tunability with a rising rate FPR. If you want to blast down the track at WOT, then thats fine, but for a street car, that needs to be fined tuned for all kinds of conditions and boost pressures, then you need more tunability.

Well, like I said, I will look into Megasquirtimus Maximus more as I have yet to make my decision, but like Xtreme said above, the idea of running massive injectors and having them weened to almost nil to compete with a lumpy idle makes me nervous. Would 700+ injectors respond well to be leaned beyond what the OEM injectors are? Obviously they would handle massive boost just fine, but just as you don't want to be taxing them at their upper limits, I'm thinking it's not the best idea to do the same at the lower limit either. Thus, my interest in the 8 injector setup. Oh and there's no way in hell I would buy anything called "SHAFT" for my car either. :P

don't you have to put the MS togehter yourself?
looks like there is a lot of other stuff needed to do all the extra things.


isnt the attraction of the 034EFI that you can have a "normal stock" car for non-boost times, but still have a Boost monster when needed without sacrificing the non-boost drivability?

Well i dont own a labtop and im not a tuning god, hence the reason for going 034EFI for now. I plan on running 400cc's in primary, and 450cc in secondary, and was told previously by many, that 850cc on a street car would result in annoying idle issues, in addition to the 0018 cxams im running, even with a stand alone. Big injectors for a trailer queen- fine, but for a street driven car - very tricky. Perhaps later, when I learn more and have a little more $ to play around with , I'll check it out.

You can get real basic laptops on ebay for under 100 bucks and you can borrow someone elses 'code' (if I understand ms correctly). Seems like another easy alternative to me. :shrug

Originally posted by Initial DSM
Well i dont own a labtop and im not a tuning god, hence the reason for going 034EFI for now. I plan on running 400cc's in primary, and 450cc in secondary, and was told previously by many, that 850cc on a street car would result in annoying idle issues, in addition to the 0018 cxams im running, even with a stand alone. Big injectors for a trailer queen- fine, but for a street driven car - very tricky. Perhaps later, when I learn more and have a little more $ to play around with , I'll check it out.

Ok, first of all, how do you plan on tuning the 034 efi without a laptop?
Secondly, how do you plan on running 400cc injector as primarys? To do so you would have to lower the fuel pressure way day under idle so that the stock ECU could control the 400CC injectors... this would then cut down the ammount of fuel that you would be getting from the 450's also... unless you used a RRFPR as well... shich would make tuning the 034efi even harder!

If you notice most people that use the 034efi either keep stock size injectors as the primarys, or they go a little bigger... not almost double the size like you want to do...

Originally posted by tim97rs
don't you have to put the MS togehter yourself? looks like there is a lot of other stuff needed to do all the extra things. isnt the attraction of the 034EFI that you can have a "normal stock" car for non-boost times, but still have a Boost monster when needed without sacrificing the non-boost drivability?

OK... if you buy a Megasquirt in kit form, then yes you do have to assemble it. But you can buy them already built from a few people. I build them for people if they need them.
And you do not need most of that stuff shown on the diagram.
The stimulator is only needed for testing the unit on the bench, and the relay box is NOT needed for the 2gnt install.
All you need is the Megasquirt, coolant temp sensor, intake temp sensor and a fuel system using a 1:1 FPR...
A laptop is needed to tune, just as you need a laptop to tune the 034efi. You can also use another product called the MegaView to tune also... pretty much it looks a lot like a SAFC but its hooked to the Megasquirt and is used to tune and show real time data. I'll post some pics of mine later...

And as for saying you want to drive a car normally when off boost and have a boost monster when on boost... well thats one way of looking at it... but with the Megasquirt or any other standalone system such as the DFI yuo have complete, and smooth control over the fuel both on and off of boost... you get a perfect smooth transition of fuel control and perfect fuel control. It actually smoothes out the impression of on boost/off boost... it's just total perfect fuel control...

If everything works out right and our baby is born before it's due date then I'll be bringing the car to the Shootout... then everyone can see how it performs... ;)

The baby is due on August 10th though... so it could be close... lol

Originally posted by XtremeRS

Originally posted by babybeclipse Just thought I'd mention...Len's neon ran a best of 10.2 (forgot the speed) just over the weekend. I'll ask him if I can post a timeslip. oh BTW, fuel is being handled only by the use of a Chill Factory FMU. No other electronics or extra injectors. Why use 8 when 4 is enough?

If I remember right, when Len was with his Neon at the Chi-town meet, he said he ran something like 800-1000 CC injectors..he has to be, to put down the power he is. I'm telling you right now, there is NO WAY he is not running a "secret" type of electronic gadget on those injectors. Your're telling me that you can run that large injector on the stock ECU injector pulsewidth with JUST a rising rate FPR?? I don't think so :) I'm willing to bet money that he is using this "secret" electronic part that HRC has kept hush hush..I saw and heard that Neon run at the meet, and I sure didnt see any mass puffs of black smoke or anything. Just like said, there is very little tunability with a rising rate FPR. If you want to blast down the track at WOT, then thats fine, but for a street car, that needs to be fined tuned for all kinds of conditions and boost pressures, then you need more tunability.

I work with the guy. I think I know his car more than anyone else on this forum and I'm telling you there is no other fuel management.

I highly doubt he told ANYONE what size injectors he runs. Thats a CF secret. You heard the car idling on the stock ECU with CF spec injectors and CF fuel system.

Here is a link to Len's post on his new record run- http://neons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=175827

I don't see why you have such a hard time accepting this. You saw the car yourself and talk to Len yourself and when his back is turned you say we lie about our set-up?

I posted a few weeks ago about a Matt Trip running mid 11's with a Chill Factory kit (meaning just a regulator for fuel management) and everyone called BS.

The ECU's and the motors are almost exactly the same. Why do you doubt this being possible in an eclipse/talon vs. a neon?

Originally posted by babybeclipse

Originally posted by XtremeRS

Originally posted by babybeclipse Just thought I'd mention...Len's neon ran a best of 10.2 (forgot the speed) just over the weekend. I'll ask him if I can post a timeslip. oh BTW, fuel is being handled only by the use of a Chill Factory FMU. No other electronics or extra injectors. Why use 8 when 4 is enough?

If I remember right, when Len was with his Neon at the Chi-town meet, he said he ran something like 800-1000 CC injectors..he has to be, to put down the power he is. I'm telling you right now, there is NO WAY he is not running a "secret" type of electronic gadget on those injectors. Your're telling me that you can run that large injector on the stock ECU injector pulsewidth with JUST a rising rate FPR?? I don't think so :) I'm willing to bet money that he is using this "secret" electronic part that HRC has kept hush hush..I saw and heard that Neon run at the meet, and I sure didnt see any mass puffs of black smoke or anything. Just like said, there is very little tunability with a rising rate FPR. If you want to blast down the track at WOT, then thats fine, but for a street car, that needs to be fined tuned for all kinds of conditions and boost pressures, then you need more tunability.

I work with the guy. I think I know his car more than anyone else on this forum and I'm telling you there is no other fuel management. I highly doubt he told ANYONE what size injectors he runs. Thats a CF secret. You heard the car idling on the stock ECU with CF spec injectors and CF fuel system. Here is a link to Len's post on his new record run- http://neons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=175827 I don't see why you have such a hard time accepting this. You saw the car yourself and talk to Len yourself and when his back is turned you say we lie about our set-up? I posted a few weeks ago about a Matt Trip running mid 11's with a Chill Factory kit (meaning just a regulator for fuel management) and everyone called BS. The ECU's and the motors are almost exactly the same. Why do you doubt this being possible in an eclipse/talon vs. a neon?

Exactly. You try putting in those large of injectors on our car and see how it runs!!! I mean hell, we have to run like 10-15 psi of fuel pressure on 440's alone, and even still its rich as hell just using a FPR..I and also a few others heard Len say what size injectors he was using, its no huge secret. I don't care what anyone says, you put in some big ass injectors and try to make the car run with just a FPR. It's not going to happen, which is why i say he is not telling *anyone* about his *secret* part he is using. I will bet a very good amount of money it's the same *FICU* or whatever part HRC is trying to use on their kits. Its basically a pulse width converter of sorts..stock injector pulse width into the unit, and modified lower pulse width out. Its pretty simple and can be hidden very easily. I swear, I have no clue why people are keeping this stuip shit a big secret.

If you *highly doubt* that Len told anyone about something as simple as the size of injectors he uses, then what makes you think he is telling the truth saying he uses just a FPR and larger injectors? If you know anything about tuning with much larger than stock injectors on these cars, then you might understand what i'm saying here..I'll tell you what, he may be fooling others, but I have personal experience of what works and what doesnt, and have dealt with a rising rate FPR for a long time using large injectors. An 600+cc injector wont run the car very well with *just* a FPR and low fuel pressure. Think about it. You say CF doesnt lie about the setup, yet you say injector size is a secret? :scratch Sorry not buying it :) I just think keeping things a secret is stupid. So what if other people know the details of a setup. What, he afraid of some competition? :P Ehh i'm done, enough of this wild tangent..

give me his engine setup, turbo size and estimated ponies and i'll give you his injector size. its not rocket science. but yes, he has to have some kind of resistors or something to run those huge ass injectors.