LAST EDITED ON 05-Jan-01 AT 12:55 PM (PST)

I haven't calculated everything involved in a complete rebuild vs. upgraded internals vs. replacement headgasket and so forth, but there are obvious choices to be made in each instance in light of a potentially bad headgasket in the future.

I think, however, Blkout (Joe A.) has gone via installing a thicker head gasket in order to lower his compression ratio. I have also been recently looking at an option such as this in the future, if it would be a cost-effective alternative before actually upgrading one's internals. (I don't recommend this as an equal perfromance alternative for forged pistons...etc.) However, every little bit counts and when you realize that 99% of us don't have the MLS head gasket and a cylinder #4 bolt hole not correctly bored out and also running boost.... well, there are potential problems on the horizon.

Therefore, I did just a little investigation and found this company that produces copper headgaskets for our cars. At about $60 apiece, it's not a bad alternative. I'm not sure what labor costs might be however...(That's the catch)

http://www.headgasket.com/gaskets.html

(You should see "neon" on the list of applications) Might be worth a phonecall.



Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

>pistons...etc.) However, every little
>bit counts and when you
>realize that 99% of us
>don't have the MLS head
>gasket and a cylinder #4
>bolt hole not correctly bored
>out and also running boost....
>well, there are potential problems
>on the horizon.

What do you mean by the cylinder #4 bolt hole bored out? Where's this from...? :o

there's been some talk about HG leaks in the performance section here "http://www.2gnt.com/dcforum/DCForumID13/267.html#".


Corbin
'95 ESI-T
HRC + FMIC
http://members.nbci.com/cbehnken/

if you read the new scc with the supercharged neon, they stacked i think three gaskets to lower compression. i dont know if this is a viable alternative because of problems it might create such as proper torqueing of the head and head bolt lenths may have to be changed,but it might work if someone is willing to try it. just some food for thought.

Actually thats what EIP tuning does for their VW turbo kits..
they stack 2 or 3 headgaskets together...

http://www.eiptuning.com/

later

What is this MLS head gasket? I have heard this for the 2nd time(once on teh Neon board) now hear, I was told I could get one at teh local Dodge dealer, So what is it???

Shant 98 Turbo Avenger

Stock replacement for the old 420A head gasket. MLS = multi layer steel, it's two steel layers with some sort of high-temp compond sandwiched between them, i think. It's thicker than the original gasket, and makes up for the under-tapped hole on the block reducing torque on the rear #4 corner because of that. Hope that helps.


-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

Is it worth getting?

Shant

without a doubt.

the stock head gasket is seriously flawed in that the rear head stud hole on the #4 cylinder side is not quite deep enough to allow proper torque to be applied to that corner of the head, resulting in oil leaks and compression loss, espesially in an aftermarket turbo application. If you have any intention of applying high pressure to you stock NA 420A setup, invest in this headgasket and the labor to have it installed. it is well worth it, in the long run, if not from performance (due to lower overall compression), then from the lessening of the worry of something catastrophicly failing, resulting in several thousand dollars worth of repairs to save your baby.


-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

So would my compression even be lower with the New pistons AND the new thicker head gasket or would it still be the 8:5:1 if I used the JE from HAhn??

Shant

thats interesting that it lowers the compression. Any information on how much?

If thats the case, then I'll definitely consider getting the head milled...if not for a performance bump then at least to not lose anything...


juan

so i can get the mls gaskets at the mitsu dealership???

LAST EDITED ON 10-Jan-01 AT 09:05 AM (PST)

Yes. The head gasket has been revised three times since the original design, but it is only offered as a replacement, so if you have a newer model dsm, you're still going to have the crappy HG. When i called my local dealer, i believe they told me that the replacement gasket was $34.

Juan: It would lower the comression, but i doubt it's much of a drop. Consider, the stock single layer gasket (for the sake of this discussion) is 1mm thick, now (again, for discussions sake) the MLS gasket is 3mm thick. with a 3mm thick gasket, you'd have an extra 2 mm between the block and the head, in effect increasing cylinder height by 2mm but without increasing stroke, thus lowering overall compression. It'd be nice for a safty margin or an extra 2psi, but probably not enough to noticeably lower NA performance.

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

Just to let you guy's know, I bought a replacment headgasket several months ago when I did the port and pollish / valve job. And the one they sent was the "crappy" one. I relized I had to order the "upper gasket" kit to reinstall my head, and the head gasket that came in that was the multi layered metel gasket. I called Mitsu up and told them that was the best thing they have done in regards to making a metel head gasket available for our motors like they have for the 4G63 all this time. The guy I spoke to (Saun) at Tallahassee mitsu said that the multi layer one was only available through the upper gasket kit at that time. They may have made it available now by itself, but make sure before you order it that it is the metel one.
P.S the tourqeing of the head bolts change with this new gaskets, so besure to follow the new specs.
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!MWC