ok, whilst waiting for the NER kit ive had so much time to think about everything that its driving me crazy, hopefully all this will cause me to get everything right the first time. so anyway, i was talking to stan the other day and he made an interesting suggestion about compressor choice. he said i should seriously consider getting the T3 rather than the hybrid. i am just wondering about all of your opinions on the pros and cons of each. the T3 spooling faster, the hybrid holding more power. what aesthetic and audible differences are there, and of course the $200 price difference i already know about. for comparison purposes, my two choices are the stage one t3 and the stage one t4 etrim. if youre wondering i will have this setup running 8psi at MOST, daily, probably more like 6 daily and 8 or 9 at the track. so long term power goals arent really an issue yet, i can always upgrade to the ball bearing t4 in 2 years or so. the thing that stan said that made me think was that the T4 cant compare to the T3 for just plain fun. stan and anyone else, your thoughts? i dont wanna get the wrong one for me and end up wanting to switch to an E or BB compressor as soon as i get it.


WIDE AWAKE
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt

LAST EDITED ON 09-Jul-01 AT 07:13 AM (PST)

You know, I'm really with Stan on this one. Here's my thinking: The T3 might be a tad smaller than my own S-16g (not sure) and I know the T03/T04 turbo is bigger. That means that spool up time with both will also be shorter(or close to my S-16g) and longer depending on turbo size.

After driving in my brother's GS-T (with the T-25) and I know that turbo is a LOT smaller than any we've been talking about here, BUT it's HELLA fun to drive. I would argue around town, it's funner (albeit NOT faster) than my own in some ways. Granted, when I jump on the rpm's, downshift, or whatever, to make the car growl a bit, my own turbo car jumps out of the whole like a rocket. BUT, the GS-T requires just a slight tap of the gas for instant power. That means off-the-line torque at around 2000-2500 rpm's. You don't even need to downshift to blow past a honduh owner, or even grandma in her Buick.

Even us turbo owners gotta admit, we need to give a lil' gas to have the turbo power. However, there's some argument to be made fun-wise for a smallish turbo that barely needs half throttle at 3000 rpm's for power that's unequalled in a 2gnt.

This may not even apply at all to a T03 turbo, which I'm guessing is still an adequately sized turbo, but if it rivals even a 14b (1st gen turbo)in size, it would provide hella fun for you and should strongly be considered. Especially if going to the track and getting the best time on the world is NOT your goal in life. I also guarantee you, from the power even a T-25 provides up top, you would be satisfied with a T03 turbo's top end (as compared to what you had b4), while at the same time be possibly more happy with a fast spooling turbo.

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

Took the words right outta my mouth. I'm with Stan and Jason here. If serious power isn't your immediate goal, go for a smaller turbo. You'll spool faster, and definately hop up a coupla pucker-points on the buttometer. I sometimes wish i could slap a small garret on my STAR manifold just for some around town zip, as compared to flooring it an getting slammed back into the seat at around 4500 when i hit full boost.



______________________________________
-Dino Yancey
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.


Get the Mitsubishi Technical Information manual for the 95-99 Eclipse HERE!
http://www.heavenz-not-0verflowing.com/files/dsmmanual.pdf

well, i can't really help you decide on what to get. but i'm getting the hybrid because it might require a little more time but you can beat a lot more high powered cars with it also, and i also wanted to say... I CAN'T WAIT TO HAVE BOOST!!!!!!! whenever that'll be.



Matt
95 Eclipse GS
my babys stock right now, few months and i should be boostin' with NER!

So the ball-bearing option just makes the turbo spool faster and quicker, not earlier (on the lower RPM range)??? DarkOne said that he gets full boost around 4500 RPM, that's too long. I have an AT and I need more power around the low to mid range. I guess the smaller turbo gives you more low end grunt. I don't want to build the fastest car on the street or track, just wanted to have some zip around the town and occasionaly smoke Type R's, Rustang's, and Gaymaros.

At 6psi I got full boost around 3500rpm but at 10psi I dont get full boost to past 4000rpm. Its like VTEC once the boost finally decides to shoot up. The REAL fun doesn't begin until the tach sweeps past 4000rpms. I thought about slapping on a T3/T4 with a smaller AR ratio (as soon as I find out what mine is) or even a T3 but will get cousel from experts (and some money) to see if I can do it without really hurting top end too much.

Since I cant use photopoint IMAGINE THIS:
Star turbo with E-trim and HKS BOV
Starion FMIC/2.5" piping
Joe P MBC
Apexi SuperAFC
Ross Pistons/total seal rings
Ported and matched intake manifold
AFX 55mm TB, FMM and UDP
2.5" downpipe back exh/Hayame muffler
Crane wires/Denso Iridium plugs
Centerforce DF clutch
KYB AGX struts/ST springs, UPR FSB, F&R camber kits
17" ADR lightnings/toyo FZ4 215/45/17
97' eclipse front end/projectors
Autometer gauges
Panasonic head unit/ Sony X-over
MB Quarts all around/JL stealth sub
Hifonics/MTX Thunder amps
XX brand alarm/Varad hyper green led

Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon 420A-Turbo
Former and future nitrous user

I have the 16g and it spools up very quickly. I have to agree with everyone else and say that a smaller turbo is more fun. But if you plan on building a major monster that runs 11's -12's get the bigger turbo. But if you only plan on running about 13's -14's the smaller turbo is more than enough and faster spooling too.

DAVE_FL
97 T-GS
HRC stage 1
Orlando DSM

well lets say you have a t3 and a hybrid both running identical everything except the turbo both boosting 8psi, which one wold be faster in say 0-60 or 1/4 mile tests?
WIDE AWAKE
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt

Assuming everything's the same, the larger turbo would of course perform better in either test. Just throwing out straight line performance tests will not show where a smaller turbo shines.

It's that day-to-day driving, wanting power while hardly touching the gas, where a small turbo will show its colors. It's sort of the same deal with all that VTEC crap. Sure, it's going to do well when you wind out the engine and drop the hammer, but if you want immediate power without even "trying," it's somewhat labouring to achieve it with a small displacement Vtec engine. (especially when you see its highest torque output at 5000-7000 rpms)

That's why when you look at a T-25's max torque on a 2g DSM, it's at 3000 rpm's with 210 lbs of torque. Not too bad for a 2.0 liter.

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

the t3 and t3/t4 share the same exhaust turbine side, right? ...it's just the hybrid has a larger compressor, correct? if that's true, let me quote a paragraph from 'maximum boost':

"Larger or smaller compressors do not have a huge effect on turbo lag or boost threshold. The compressor wheel is the lightest rotating part of the turbo; hence, it's contribution to the total inertia of the rotating assembly is fairly low. Boost threshold is mostly a function of the turbo's speed, which is controlled by the turbine." - Corky Bell.

to me that means that if the exhaust turbine is properly matched to the displacement of the engine, then lag won't be a factor with either choice. and of course more power being available from the hybrid turbo.

yeah thats the whole purpose of T3/T4 hybrid thats why I say looking into something with a smller turbine AR ratio. maybe there's a better T3/T4 combo.

Since I cant use photopoint IMAGINE THIS:
Star turbo with E-trim and HKS BOV
Starion FMIC/2.5" piping
Joe P MBC
Apexi SuperAFC
Ross Pistons/total seal rings
Ported and matched intake manifold
AFX 55mm TB, FMM and UDP
2.5" downpipe back exh/Hayame muffler
Crane wires/Denso Iridium plugs
Centerforce DF clutch
KYB AGX struts/ST springs, UPR FSB, F&R camber kits
17" ADR lightnings/toyo FZ4 215/45/17
97' eclipse front end/projectors
Autometer gauges
Panasonic head unit/ Sony X-over
MB Quarts all around/JL stealth sub
Hifonics/MTX Thunder amps
XX brand alarm/Varad hyper green led

Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon 420A-Turbo
Former and future nitrous user