im planning on doing a water injection kit on my car....of course im not going to go buy one, so i came up with this idea....it may of already been done, or it might not work...but lets hear what you think...
alright, big container, either windshield fluid tank or a larger one in the trunk... stock fuel pump from my car...a line run up to the intercooler pipe and attached to a stock fuel injector....ill wire both the pump and the injector to a boost activated switch.... set the boost switch maybe one or two psi before you actually want it to inject the water...this way it will compensate for the time to flow the water to the injector since it wont hold the pressure by itself.... what do you guys think? our stock injectors are pretty small, so it should throw a pretty nice mist.... i would install the injector right after the intercooler....let me hear some opinions because this would cost next to nothing and i feel be pretty reliable...
doug

dude, no.

my setup is like this:

one nozzle (aquamist) before the intercooler of just water on a hobbes switch and 150psi water pump (NOT a fuel pump) and another aquamist nozzle before the throttle body spraying water/denatured alcohol

you dont want to use a fuel injector, lol

hit me up on aim, im sure i can help you out settin this thang up...afterall, i just peiced my own together and it didnt even cost 200$

edit: noticeable drop in intaske air temps as well as increased timing at WOT (23!)
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons

why wont a fuel injector work? pulse on and allow the water in? i think im going to rig it up and try it off of the car to see what it looks like....this would be free though....ill let you know if i decide to actually build one....thanks...anyone else ever hear anything like this?
doug

keep going with this. I'd like to know also. I'm tired of having to back off at 110mph becuase egt is 1600.

you could get electric pressure switch on Ebay for mucho $$$ or 1/2 the ebay price at Digikey.com

you could buy aquamist nozzle of just get misting nozzle from mcmaster.com

get a good pump like the pump for the rv water supply
and use a solenoid valve on the water line and trigger that solenoid from the pressure switch 12v

the rv pumps are made to always be under pressure you feed it directly with a separate 12v line
the opening action on the solenoid valve is intantaneous and the water injection will shoot right on without any lag
the close the solenoid valve will be from the nozzle the better it is

and inject the water BEFORE the turbo for the best efficiency
that way the turbo blades will chop the mist into a real fog and that fog will turn into steam when mixed with the hot compressed air

you could use a mix of water and alcohol for a maximum efficiency and with the right alcohol mixture you could also raise your octane level

Alain

i have though about looking into this as well. keep up with more info on this so i dont have to ask so many stupid questions.

simple but effective

the pump is made for RV water system (around $70)
solenoid valve support 250 psi of pressure ($40)
several choices of nozzle at $5 and up
pressure switch is around $15 at digikey.com



Alain

Originally posted by alain95i4
and inject the water BEFORE the turbo for the best efficiency
that way the turbo blades will chop the mist into a real fog and that fog will turn into steam when mixed with the hot compressed air

i WOULD NOT ADVISE THIS

"injecting water before the turbocharger will damage the compressor wheel"

alright this thread is about to get owned


Atomized water, just like fuel , does not like to make turns thus making accurate distribution something to think about.

Multiple nozzes, equally spaced in the plenum, although it complicates things, is a superior design.

Fuel Injectors operate in the 1 Millisecond range and are not capable of long term usage for H20 as they will corrode or rust shut in a very short period of time. Unless a solenoid can open as fast as a fuel injector it should not be used to "pulse" water injection events.

fuel injection pumps cannot be used for water injection. Water is conductive. gas is not. water will corrode an efi pump shut in a very short period of time


Theoretically, water injection can happen anywhere between the air filter and the intake runners. However, injecting water before the turbocharger will damage the compressor wheel. On the other hand, injecting water after the turbocharger is made difficult by the need to increase the pressure under which the water is injected in order to overcome the additional pressure. Also needed is a check valve to inhibit compressed air from entering the water reservoir when water is not being injected, such as in low boost situations. The water should be injected as soon after the turbocharger as possible to allow time for the water to form small droplets. Often, people will inject perpendicular to the tubing to use impact with the back wall of the tubing to further break up the water drops. Alcohol also assists in creating smaller droplets.

If water injection is to be used in tandem with an intercooler, the water should be injected after the intercooler in order to maximize the temperature drop

you need to figure your water injection setup to your horsepower goals, as in...look into the size nozzles and see how many cc's they flow. just spraying water in there is a good idea and all...but you honestly might as well just duct tape a garden hose before the turbo and have at it












_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons

*taking notes*garden hose...duct tape...radiator type dealy.. gotcha

I'm not a fan of cut n paste material without citing sources like a good report must be done
I have seen this text before on the web I know that you took some of it here http://www.turbocalculator.com/water-injection.html
see I have bookmarks too

this beeing said I'm a strong beliver of pre-turbo injection
We are not using water injection as a replacement of an intercooler neither are we using it in a 30+ psi setup
we don't need to drop as much water/alcohol mixture as you could think
by shooting a few inches before the turbocharger you are shooting in a very stream of VACUUM a vacuum powerfull enought to break appart the fine mist that you inject , the result is not different as driving a cain a on highly rainy day when the air is overcharged with water if you electric pump can produce enought pressure and your nozzle is well made you are fine

up to the mid 80's turbocharged engines, either in cars, trucks or planes, were using carburators and they were placed before the turbochargers, the turbo was swallowing a mixture of air and fuel and the water injection was done even before the carburator when they were using it,

it's not different today

BTW I'm sick and tired of reading OWNED this and OWNED that every where only to see cut n paste material If you want to OWN at least back it up with your OWN materials

Alain

I was thinking about a water injection system for my truck.. diesel's really like it from what i've been told.. I've heard it raises fuel mileage on diesels with is a HUGE goal of mine because of how much I drive it, the more fuel i gotta buy.. the smaller my profits.
I'll ask about this stuff on a diesel forum though, if they got anything interesting to say I'll post it back here.

on a side note.. I could put a 50 gallon tank for the water under my truck :D atleast i won't need to fill it up often..

heres one of those stupid question i was talking about:

so, if your injecting water or water-alcohol into the IC piping, has the water evaporated before entering the cylinder and mixing with the gas? if not, isn't it a bad thing to have water in the cylinder?

Originally posted by tim97rs
heres one of those stupid question i was talking about: so, if your injecting water or water-alcohol into the IC piping, has the water evaporated before entering the cylinder and mixing with the gas? if not, isn't it a bad thing to have water in the cylinder?

the water doesn't really evaporate but turns into a fine fog
the whole point when spraying before the turbo is to use the cutting effect of a turbo turbing 50k + rpm to help turn the fog into steam

of course way too much water is bad

Alain

moochus grassy ass!

dude who really gives a shit, i didnt post the link? i took the valuable info from it and placed an argument towards your 'spray before the turbo ' show me something that says spray it before the turbo with any resonable logic and i'll set mine up like that. even einstein once said "the secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."

besides im not hiding the fact that i use fuckin google, sheesh. lol. it works fuckin good for anything i wanna know :thumbsup

edit:

"the whole point when spraying before the turbo is to use the cutting effect of a turbo turbing 50k + rpm to help turn the fog into steam"

may i ask how you know this? dude...because it sounds retarded to me. have you ever SEEN an aquamist nozzle spray?!?! IT DOES NOT need to be "cut up" anymore, thats not even the point! you want the mist fine yes, but alcohol also helps to make the mist finer

trust me, it works very good after the intercooler and im speaking from experience




_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons

I would think that one reason you may want it before the turbo is then it would help cool the turbo down it's self.. increasing the efficency of the turbo..?

I am sure Turby just forget to cite hs findings when he posted that. When he does he can cite this one too...

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

On a side note i got a chance to see a local 4g63 guys water injection setup. It was relly simple and under $100. It was for track only use. He used his factory windshiled resevoir with an aquarium pump that connected to a mister tapped right into the intake mani. Worked really well for him, and got me interested in a water injection system for my car now that the temps in AZ are breaking 100+

i will not do the mister before the turbo..ive heard some horror stories from that....did you ever stick your hand out the window while its raining and youre going fast? it hurts...not the turbo is spinning pretty damn fast so the water can actually file the blades down.... i was planning on doing it right after the intercooler....now the fact that about the injectors only like to "pulse" might be true...but just add an on off switch in the drivers compartment and only use the water injection when you know you'll need it.... im going to experiment out of the car and see how it works and ill let you know...thanks for the input
doug

check this out: not taking sides on the before or after turbo injection but this is a good read:

http://waterinjection.info/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=80

my idea is better

lickscissors and myself were talking about this water injection thing. would there be a point in doing water injection while i'm non turbo? i have a few pieces of a custom turbo set up... a t3 super 60, 1g bov, and 2g side mount for now. i am going to be running that on stock internals for a while before i can come up with more cash for a rebuild. does the use of water injection mean i can run more boost, or does it just mean i can run a lower amount of boost more efficiently. i was thinking about 6-7psi without a bottom end, then lickscissors and i were thinking that i might be able to run like 9-10psi with water injection. now 9-10psi scares me on a stock bottom end. does 9-10psi with water injection sound realistic on a stock bottom end or what? thanks.

I thought the thing to worry about was detonation with the stock pistons.

Yeah, but detonation is gasoline igniting prematurely due to heat. Cooling the intake charge would theoretically allow someone to run higher boost on stock internals, provided they don't tune like a complete idiot (I'd still use a built block though, just in case of detonation...because if it does happen, boy are you fucked...)

-Corey

same difference ;)......nevermind I hate when ppl say same difference

you could boost 13psi on the stock bottom end with water injection and like 100 octane gas
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons

lmao, 13psi and 100octane gas, that's no problem! haha, now realistically if you were running water injection on a stock bottom end on your car, what boost level would you feel comfortable with?

I wouldn't go over 9, period.
Nick
97RS

turbo8u> shut your SUCK
ZAO684: NIPPLE warning...maybe>?
turbo8u> yea i was a window licker on the short bus in junior high

Originally posted by Collente
I am a woman

where you been CHOAD?!



_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons

ive heard of someone whos ran 13psi for a year, i myself ran 10psi for 30K miles on a high mileage motor, it took it like a bitch

i dont recommend runing that much if you dont know how to tune for shit though
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons

cool, well thanks for your input:thumbsup