I am building a engine for my car and i'm in need of some assitance. I am very confidently aiming for 450hp and I'm sure i can get it. I need to know how to get 660cc/min denso injectors to work with my setup.

My original plan was to weld the intake off a 4g to my flange, but I'm now under the impression that the injectors will fit i just need a resistor pack.

If someone knows how to make this work i would greatly apperciate any help they can give.

Thank you

Moved to Turbo. This isn't advanced, it's misguided.

First off what the f is a 4g, i thought eclipses were only into the 3rd gen right now. I think i misunderstand you.

For a 450hp goal your probably going to be safer w/ 720's. The only way your going to be able to make that would be on race gas anyhow. What kind of ecu will you be running and will you have total control over timing? You run into issues on a stock ecu w/ having to dial back airflow on that big of injector to get the right a/f mixture. with a standalone you'll be able to have control of these things. what kind of turbo? what type of engine control?

On a turbo like a 50 trim you'll need to run at least 26 psi to hit that goal and you'll need lots of fuel to get there. Maybe you should lay out a mod list of what you intend to run to get some more accurate advice.

im assuming he means 4g63 :)

yes, I meant a 4G63, but i believe i just answered my own question as it's as simple as adding 10 ohm resistors.
2-3 for low impedance + 10 resistor = 12-13

Not quite. Consider the wattage before you go burning up resistors from Radioshack.

You know that, without some real fuel control, you're not going to be able to idle on injectors that large, correct? An SFMU and an SAFC isn't going to cut it.

That's right bro you are going to need something to control those injectors. Do you have a DFI or some other means of total control?

I was going to use a vortech FPR and an APex AFC. I can't seem to find any usuable information on this. I thought that would be enough

How can a 2g car with a 4g63 get away with using 800 or even 950's with only using afc and a fpr? I'm not trying to be smart, I really just don't know. Every post i read on the subject goes good for one or two replies and then goes into something totally away from the orginial topic, like what turbo and stuff like that.

If you have advice to help me with my fuel system i will greatly apperciate it.

what hp are 440's good for?
and what are the highest level i can go without a controller?

*edit* i know about that watt's, i'm getting 25watt resistors, they dont have them at radio shack, i'm getting them off the internet. Thanks though.

i dont know a guy w/ a 4g63 running anything bigger than stock w/o at least an afc. 440's got suieclipse to 349 whp, i'd say thats pushing the limits of those injectors. i'd feel much more comfortable telling you to stick w/ 550's in that scenario but he was dialed in pretty perfect w/ a wideband o2 datalogger at his side. again, you want to run the smallest injector for your goal so you have less negative correction to do. 650's will easily support your goal.

^^^^350whp with 50lb injectors not 440's.

Originally posted by Geelo
I was going to use a vortech FPR and an APex AFC. I can't seem to find any usuable information on this. I thought that would be enough How can a 2g car with a 4g63 get away with using 800 or even 950's with only using afc and a fpr? I'm not trying to be smart, I really just don't know. Every post i read on the subject goes good for one or two replies and then goes into something totally away from the orginial topic, like what turbo and stuff like that. If you have advice to help me with my fuel system i will greatly apperciate it. what hp are 440's good for? and what are the highest level i can go without a controller? *edit* i know about that watt's, i'm getting 25watt resistors, they dont have them at radio shack, i'm getting them off the internet. Thanks though.

The 4G63 is a totally different beast...
And people get away with larger injectors on the 4G63 because they can run the SAFC to really pull out fuel... but if you do the same thing on an 2GNT and really pull fuel with the SAFC you'll run a LOT of ignition advance... which is not good.

Plus the 2GNT has 235cc stock... the 4G63 has 450cc stoc... so you see the difference in the two when you go to 660 or somerhing that size.

I'm going to use a Crane ignition to take care of my timing.

What is the deal with a Megasquirt? I found it mentioned in the forum acouple times. I looked it up on the internet and I can get it for the same price as the APex. Will it control timing or just fuel? How well does it interact with our computers?

Originally posted by Geelo
I'm going to use a Crane ignition to take care of my timing. What is the deal with a Megasquirt? I found it mentioned in the forum acouple times. I looked it up on the internet and I can get it for the same price as the APex. Will it control timing or just fuel? How well does it interact with our computers?

um...megasquirt...ya... I hear it's the shit

As far as using larger injectors well what hasn't been explained is that the AF will control 50% larger injectorsthen the ECU messes with stock, hwhic is why the largest we can run with control is 440 (because stock we're 235) and why 4G-63T motors run 720+ with control

If your going to make 450hp don't mess with piggybacks. Just buy a standalone ems and a BFT! (Big F'in turbo)

Thats not entirly true. An AFC will lie to the stock ECU about what the MAP sees. The computer inturn holds the injector open longer or closes it earlier. The computer doesn't know a 100 cc/min injector from a 1600 cc/min injector. All it knows is a duration of time to hold it open. When you lean it out with the AFC it closes the injector early so you get the same amount of fuel from a 660 as you do a 235 staying open longer.

Originally posted by Geelo
Thats not entirly true. An AFC will lie to the stock ECU about what the MAP sees. The computer inturn holds the injector open longer or closes it earlier. The computer doesn't know a 100 cc/min injector from a 1600 cc/min injector. All it knows is a duration of time to hold it open. When you lean it out with the AFC it closes the injector early so you get the same amount of fuel from a 660 as you do a 235 staying open longer.

That's all well and true... but on the 2GNT the ECU uses the MAP to determine ignition advance amoung other things.

When you are driving your car... the lower the MAP reading in general the lower the load on the engine. And at lower loads you can run higher ignition advance.

So if you lower the MAP on the 2GNT any more than say 10% you can raise the ignition advance quite a lot... which can be dangerous if your already on the edge as far as detonation and ignition timing goes.

So it's much better to control larger injectors on a 2GNT with fuel pressure rather than an SAFC.
When I ran my 450cc injectors on the stock ECU I only had the SAFC taking out around 6-8%.

Again, i am using a crane ignition for my timing retard. That is no problem.

the main topic was how to run low impedance injectors in my 2gnt. I'm not to worried about timing or anything else. I can control the fuel, i can control the timing. I need to not over amp my ECU with a low impedance injector.

Originally posted by Geelo
Again, i am using a crane ignition for my timing retard. That is no problem. the main topic was how to run low impedance injectors in my 2gnt. I'm not to worried about timing or anything else. I can control the fuel, i can control the timing. I need to not over amp my ECU with a low impedance injector.

With a crane you should be ok... but it's still bertter to control with fuel pressure as much as possible.

450CC DSM injectors are low impedence. That's what I was running on the stock ECU for the last 9 months before I switched to Megasquirt.

You need to wire up some resistors in the injector wiring harness. The average low-impedence injectors are between 1.5 and 3 Ohm. The stock 2GNT are around 13-14 I think. So you need to add around 11 Ohms to each injector.

I used 2 x 20 Ohm 50 Watt resistors in series for each injector. This gives me 10 Ohms and 100 Watts of resistance for each injector. This works perfect with the stock ECU.

100 watt is a little overkill aint it? Each injector should only pull like 12 watts. There is formulas to figure it all out. But thats not the point i guess. I'm thinking about a Megasquirt anyway.

Originally posted by Geelo
100 watt is a little overkill aint it? Each injector should only pull like 12 watts. There is formulas to figure it all out. But thats not the point i guess. I'm thinking about a Megasquirt anyway.

Actually I think they wre 25 watts each now I think about it. So its 50 watts per injector. We had the resistors at work, but didnt have 10 ohm, only 20 ohm. So with the resistors in parallel to get 10 Ohms they then have a rating of 50 watts. But yeah 25 watts will work fine.