Okey, i'm quite frustrated i'm hoping you guys can help me out since im so close. Here is what i'm dealing with

my setup

50lb injectors
MSD coil
MSD dis-2 ignition
T3/T4 Innovative Turbo Systems T3/T4
FMIC
SFMU
SAFC
MSD inline fuel pump
-----------------------------------------------------------
We installed the SFMU we didn't do anything with the inside of it... we just installed it attached the lines etc. When the fuel pump is on and the engine is off *key to the on position* it's set at about 24-25psi according to the guage. we are ajusting the pressure using the screw on top. when the engine starts its set right now at 12-16psi at about idle....... how do we ajust the static... can anyone give me some guidance here as to how to get this SFMU fully setup and what the settings typically need to be set at?

I have set the SAFC up according to the SAFC tuning guide on 2gnt front page. I also have played with the settings... it got to the point i looked under the car and the cat was glowing.... i decided to call it quits for the night.... we where also running so rich at one point it was hurting my eyes....


I really don't want to have to take this thing to a tuning shop but it's starting to really look this way....

any help please???

Sounds like you're running too rich man. Adjust your S-AFC settings and/or lower via the S-FMU. You have GOT to learn every aspect of both of these units and understand how they work. Then you should be able to tune.

Tuning isn't just plugging in set numbers and everything magically works... you have to turn knobs, set screws, make calculations, make errors, and hopefully eventually make shit work!

See if you can get another local 2GNT member that's used to tuning to come help you.

>Sounds like you're running too rich man. Adjust your S-AFC
>settings and/or lower via the S-FMU. You have GOT to learn
>every aspect of both of these units and understand how they
>work. Then you should be able to tune.
>
>Tuning isn't just plugging in set numbers and everything
>magically works... you have to turn knobs, set screws, make
>calculations, make errors, and hopefully eventually make shit
>work!
>
>See if you can get another local 2GNT member that's used to
>tuning to come help you.


This sucks!!! yeah i figured tuning would be a bitch... I don't think there is many people in utah that know how to tune let alone anyone from utah with a turbo setup. Looks like i will end up having to pay the $80.00/hour shop fee to get the thing tuned... how frustrating.


thanks for your help anyhow.
- Phil

Well... we can try to help you out as much as we can on the forums. How about posting your current settings on the S-FMU and S-AFC. Search the old posts too... you can learn a lot there.

i'm pretty sure that the S-FMU comes with the largest disc installed. that would be the 3.xx" disk. don't use that one with those injectors. you will run so rich that you will see fuel coming out of your exhaust. even if you have a cat.

EDIT: this, along with setting the AFC to like +25%, is a really good way to shoot turbo flames. i did it once and got a movie. it was pretty cool, but the car ran like crap because it was just dumping fuel into the engine 24/7.

personally i have the 40lb injectors, with the 2.72" disk. my idle pressure is around 15 psi of fuel, but it's able to "idle" anywhere between 10 and 20 psi of fuel.

my fuel pressure around 15 psi of boost is about 85-90 psi of fuel, i think. it's rich, but i like it that way. until i get a wideband for tuning, i'm going to leave it like that.

with the 50lb injectors, you may have to go to the next smaller disk with the S-FMU, i think it's the 2.42" disk? i can't remember. i know you probably won't want to use the smallest disk which is the 2.22" disk. that has a really low rising rate.

idle with those injectors may be a little tricky. you will probably have to run 10-12 psi of fuel (really low, but it's the only way to do it without a standalone) to allow the least correction by the AFC as possible. personally, i use my AFC in order to eliminate fuel cut around 0 psi by pulling out about 3-5% between idle and 4000 rpm's at low throttle. i also use it to perfect my idle. my missing link never worked too well at 0 psi... don't ask.

the whole idea behind having a S-FMU and a S-AFC is to do as much as you possibly can with the S-FMU and pick up where it leaves off with the AFC. that way you will be screwing with your MAP sensor/ignition timing/ECU the least, which is a good thing.

a datalogger helps too, mainly it allows you to see part of the big picture with what your ECU is trying to do.

>i'm pretty sure that the S-FMU comes with the largest disc
>installed. that would be the 3.xx" disk. don't use that one
>with those injectors. you will run so rich that you will see
>fuel coming out of your exhaust. even if you have a cat.
>
>EDIT: this, along with setting the AFC to like +25%, is a
>really good way to shoot turbo flames. i did it once and got a
>movie. it was pretty cool, but the car ran like crap because
>it was just dumping fuel into the engine 24/7.
>
>personally i have the 40lb injectors, with the 2.72" disk. my
>idle pressure is around 15 psi of fuel, but it's able to
>"idle" anywhere between 10 and 20 psi of fuel.
>
>my fuel pressure around 15 psi of boost is about 85-90 psi of
>fuel, i think. it's rich, but i like it that way. until i get
>a wideband for tuning, i'm going to leave it like that.
>
>with the 50lb injectors, you may have to go to the next
>smaller disk with the S-FMU, i think it's the 2.42" disk? i
>can't remember. i know you probably won't want to use the
>smallest disk which is the 2.22" disk. that has a really low
>rising rate.
>
>idle with those injectors may be a little tricky. you will
>probably have to run 10-12 psi of fuel (really low, but it's
>the only way to do it without a standalone) to allow the least
>correction by the AFC as possible. personally, i use my AFC in
>order to eliminate fuel cut around 0 psi by pulling out about
>3-5% between idle and 4000 rpm's at low throttle. i also use
>it to perfect my idle. my missing link never worked too well
>at 0 psi... don't ask.
>
>the whole idea behind having a S-FMU and a S-AFC is to do as
>much as you possibly can with the S-FMU and pick up where it
>leaves off with the AFC. that way you will be screwing with
>your MAP sensor/ignition timing/ECU the least, which is a good
>thing.
>
>a datalogger helps too, mainly it allows you to see part of
>the big picture with what your ECU is trying to do.



:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

THANK you so much for explaining that to me!!!! damn i spent all day on the phone with the tune shop they told me they wanted $135.00 an hour to put in on the dyno and tune it and said it could take up to 20hours... holy crap i'm not bill gates.... I talked to an other buddy of mine that owns a tune shop and he said to go back to the stalk injectors... uhm wrong.... I think the disc thing explains it all we haven't changed any of the discs out.... this makes sense now i bet it will run so much better....

We got it to the point where it would idle ok... but when you would press the gass it would bog down or die ... and when we leaned it out on the safc it would idle at like 2000rpm but really lean.... we also have the down stream o2 sensor not put into the exhaust but it is hooked up this could be causing us some problems too... i purchased a Air/Fuel gadge a digital one that shows voltage.. but it's not wide band.


I just bought my first home... it has a oversized garage so i can have all sorts of fun... i can move my car into my own garage instead of it being at my friends.

thanks again for your help!! It's nice to have someone give you a little guidance...

I love this place.

do you have a built motor etc? #50 injectors are super big to use with a afc. #50 injectors only has worked on murix/chris car with super low fuel pressure. im still a little confused on why #50 injectors?
Michael
99gs
HRC Stage IV 8-Injector Setup
2GNT Member #32

I think your absolutly right.... we have been doing research.. and come to find out we probably are running way to big of injectors thus the reason why we are running so rich and it's very difficult to get big injectors tuned.


We are also going to try and put the areomotive back in with the big injectors to see if perhaps this helps anything... it could solve a lot of our problems.... not having the downstream o2 into the pipes might be causing us some problems as well... at this point it's process of elimination :)


Thank you for your help!
:thumbsup

I don't mean to be rude. Ah, fuck it. Sure I do. You built a motor, rigged up a helluva turbo setup, and neglected to do any research whatsoever on how to make it all work?
Wow. There is a button at the top, says "search." Give that a shot.
-=B-=

There is formula you can use to figure out what size of injectors you need. But you need to make sure you have everything hooked up before trying to diagnose. I mean sure the O2 (rear) isnt in but it needs to be unless youve hooked up an O2 simulator. As for your A/F gauge (DO NOT TUNE WITH THIS GUAGE UNLESS YOU HAVE A WIDE BAND O2 HOOKED UP)Im not even kidding trust me I have a wide band O2 and digital read out and almost all guages are wrong by alot.
Start off with getting the correct injectors stock will get you going so Id put those back at least until you get all the bugs worked out. Put the 12:1 disc back into the FMU until you up the injectors. When all seems to be running ok. Then you can up your injectors, lower your disc (FMU) and increase boost. Then fine tune with the S-AFC using a wide band O2 with a digital read out. Most turbo cars should run around 12.7 to a 13.5 Anywho thats my $0.02

dude. if you got a stock motor or whatever or if you dont know much about how to tune a fuel setup put your stock injectors back in and call it a day till you read everything about our fuel system.
cool
Michael
99gs
HRC Stage IV 8-Injector Setup
2GNT Member #32

>I don't mean to be rude. Ah, fuck it. Sure I do. You built a
>motor, rigged up a helluva turbo setup, and neglected to do
>any research whatsoever on how to make it all work?
>Wow. There is a button at the top, says "search." Give that a
>shot.
>-=B-=


We did our research and we do use the search tool. I came to this forum to seek that knowledge and bought what i thought was best. I do understand how the fuel setup works we are just working out the kinks. I thought this was a tech forum to ask questions to help solve problems... That is exactly what i have been doing.

My setup is unique to others on this bored and that is why i ask questions to gather information and make this work properly.
I bought too big of injectors and had the wrong disc in the SFMU.

I know this now because of KIND users on this message forum whom have helped along the way.

For your information your statement about not doing research is false. By no means consider myself a car tech. I am a Internet Security and Intrusion Detection specialist for the state of Utah.

We seem to have put the engine in and fabricated the exhaust system, we have done research on the rods, pistons, cams, turbo, transmission and interior and body work. I have also consulted with several different performance shops:

Phantom Motorsports
ModernGarage.com
Addit2yourtoy.com
rpmrons.com

I have put well over $10,000 into this car so far and we are new at a few things yes, we are going into the fuel system a little blind but a simple "use the search method" would suffice.

Your statement once again about not doing any research is false and I do not appericiate your rude comments. Everyone else on this forum that has helped has bent over backwords that help means more than words can explain.

Yesterday i was thinking about throwing a 2gnt sticker on my car because this forum rocks... It's people like you that hurt it's image.

Thanks to everyone who has helped.

Well dont let a few bad apples ruin your thoughts of this site. I have only been here a short while but there are alot of helpful folks. If you have any other questions feel free to contact myself anytime. I am also with a group called DSM Central. I live in Normal Il. home for the DSM. I know they would be happy to help you also in anyways possible. www.dsmcentral.com Good luck with your ride as I will also need some good luck.

I guess you're right. I am an asshole. I wish I had known that when I let myself live this morning. Seriously, though, if it were my car, I would not be tuning my fuel by adjusting the pressure. I would go with a standalone, at the very least for fuel. This way, the car would be tunable by pulsewidth, rather then pressure. This buys adjustability, but is a somewhat more expensive and difficult option. It would be much easier, however, to accurately tune the car. Fuel pressure isn't bad, for a few pounds of boost. However, if you want to run high boost and eliminate knock (rather then minimize knock), then something else is needed. Try looking into the SMT-6, the Greddy E-manage, Megasquirt, or DFI. If you really want to do the best possible for the car, look into the Haltech, AEM, DTA, or another full standalone computer. Your motor will thank you with extended longevity, better power, and faster times on the track.

As for my comment before, I was surprised to see someone who had done so much for their car, but did not have much knowledge on the sFMU. But to re-iterate, I am not a huge fan of using a rising rate regulator to make up for the inadequicies of not having a good management setup in place. That is just my .02, though, and you are free to take it with a grain of salt, a pound of pepper, or whatever. There isn't a whole lot of information out there on adapting standalones to 2GNTs, Avengers, Sebrings, or even Neons. It is somewhat uncharted territory, but it would be worthwhile to have a fuel management setup that is meant to see boost. Everything else, in my opinion, is a hack.

-=B-=

>I guess you're right. I am an asshole. I wish I had known
>that when I let myself live this morning. Seriously, though,
>if it were my car, I would not be tuning my fuel by adjusting
>the pressure. I would go with a standalone, at the very least
>for fuel. This way, the car would be tunable by pulsewidth,
>rather then pressure. This buys adjustability, but is a
>somewhat more expensive and difficult option. It would be much
>easier, however, to accurately tune the car. Fuel pressure
>isn't bad, for a few pounds of boost. However, if you want to
>run high boost and eliminate knock (rather then minimize
>knock), then something else is needed. Try looking into the
>SMT-6, the Greddy E-manage, Megasquirt, or DFI. If you really
>want to do the best possible for the car, look into the
>Haltech, AEM, DTA, or another full standalone computer. Your
>motor will thank you with extended longevity, better power,
>and faster times on the track.
>
>As for my comment before, I was surprised to see someone who
>had done so much for their car, but did not have much
>knowledge on the sFMU. But to re-iterate, I am not a huge fan
>of using a rising rate regulator to make up for the
>inadequicies of not having a good management setup in place.
>That is just my .02, though, and you are free to take it with
>a grain of salt, a pound of pepper, or whatever. There isn't a
>whole lot of information out there on adapting standalones to
>2GNTs, Avengers, Sebrings, or even Neons. It is somewhat
>uncharted territory, but it would be worthwhile to have a fuel
>management setup that is meant to see boost. Everything else,
>in my opinion, is a hack.
>
>-=B-=



I agree with you on this. I have been looking into e-manage... is it any good? what stand-alone do you suggest? what are your recommendations?

I have seen evil things done with the DTA. I don't know what the best way to get it on this side of the puddle would be. It is European made, and has a lot of neat features. Give google a shot.
-=B-=

I here alot of good things with AEM not alot of people like but its because they havent really dived into it deep enough. A buddy of mine was trained by an AEM rep on how to use it for tunig Honda's (I know we dont drive Hondas)but it was easy to use and he was able to really get the race car tuned very well.

> I here alot of good things with AEM not alot of people like
>but its because they havent really dived into it deep enough.
>A buddy of mine was trained by an AEM rep on how to use it
>for tunig Honda's (I know we dont drive Hondas)but it was easy
>to use and he was able to really get the race car tuned very
>well.
>
I didn't think AEM actually made an engine management for our car?

They don't make one that is harnessed for a 420a Eclipse. However, they have a race computer that can be spliced in. The AEM is nice and all, but it lacks some of the really cool features of the DTA.
-=B-=

I am working on setting up an 8 inj. setup with Aeromotive 1:1 FPR. I was also thinking about going to a Haltech. Has anyone hooked up a Haltech and know how well it works?