i was driving around in my friends 02 wrx last night and it was decently cold out, kinda foggy on pacific coast highway but really quiet, no one out. he was takin me on a drive to show me a "goodie" so we are cruisin on low boost (about 16 pounds) and i see him flip this switch thing under the dash and here a tank int he back pressurize. im like ohhhhhh shit!!! was that a nitrous bottle? he said no....so i was like, mmkay? so he slams high boost (about 19-20 pounds) and mashes the gas in 3rd. we pull just like we normally would but at about 5500 rpm's we RIPPED, all the way to redline. OHHHHHH my gosh, i mean...granted, i was high as a mother so everything was blurry already but i mean this was like something out of star trek or something, freakin subaru warp drive at 70mph

i guess what happened is he hooked up a PROPANE tank in his trunk!!!! i could NOT believe this....it was hands down, the coolest thing ive seen in awhile! it toally worked, he has it programmed somehow to inject something like a 50 shot or something at a certain boost pressure straight into his intake (tapped like a nitrous fogger would) and as soon as it injects the boost ups to 25 pounds to make up for the 140 octane propane injection. im SOOOOOOOOOOO doing this mod on my car, it was fuckin incredible!!! his AFC was tuned perfect for it to...ive never been in such a crazy car, it ran sooo smooth across its whole powerband and just LIFTED at high rpm's, it was cool becasue most AWD cars lose power in the top end so thats why he rigged it like that, pretty frikkin ingenious imo....
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

sweet
Nick
97RS

turbo8u> shut your SUCK

whattup stoner? ^^^ hit up the chatroom if u see this
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

yeah, propane injection has been around for a long time...dynamic racing's stealth runs it..its like crack for the desiel guys, exactly like nitrous...for us turbo boys it works b/c of its high octane rating, so its like your running race gas..its fairly inexpensive b/c of the price of propane..what 20 bucks to fill up? if that...the most expensive thing about it is the solenoids

Hehe, I just watched an episode of "trucks" on Spike TV this afternoon, and the guy on there put propane injection on a Chevy turbo deisel truck..it worked sweeet.. Be very interesting to see a setup on a turbo 2gnt...

lets get some ideas together so someone (like me) can make it!!

any feedback would be sick, diagrams...ideas, anything

i dont want a fuggin huge propane tank either....
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

propane injection yummm

Bill

Pro-Pain - http://www.onlygoodstuff.com/


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
15.901 @ 88.34mph
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

let me get this right.
if you were to inject this into your system, you wouldn't have to adjust your fuel any while squeezing? would you be overly rich or would your ecu compensate?

I'm very interested in this.

what are the properties of propane? does it also have a cooling effect?
I know that it is a hydrocarbon, and is a refrigerant while compressed, but does that continue while it is injected?

sweet turbo8u!!!!!!!!! so you are still running premium or whatever, then you spray propane, with its high octane level, it will keep the premium from detonating even at 20psi or whatever?? that is just fuggin cool! i'll probably just have to keep runnin 87 octane when i go turbo and squeeze when i boost. woohoo! i'm gonna do some researching on this topic. don't let it fall into the 2gnt post abyss!!!!!1

Yeah when I get my engine rebuilt I was planning on using a bottle too, but this seems like a more interesting alternative...

ok, did soem google searching. came across this site. very informative...sorta.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread/t-4992.html

piece of shit.... (damn server) i posted something but it kicked me off.... basically, i did research on this stuff last year (for a class) and found out that propane, unless regulated (VERY CAREFULLY) will burn WAY TOO HOT for an engine. try it if you want, you just won't see me doing it

i'm a frikkin genius...

ok so check it out, run propane AND nitrous. nitrous is an oxidizer and is just another way of realeasing oxygen (its escentially...a turbo with no lag) and propane on the other hands is is higher than normal octane (around 140) so you non turbo guys basically now have a turbo with a 75 shot of this nitrous and propane setup. thatd be frikkin insane.....the internals would handle just as much as a boosted car, but with less exhaust restrcition capabilites of the non turbo guys, you will still be forced induction, but non turbo...and turbo guys...spool up shot?? FUCK yea....hahn will be in the 10's with that shit


96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

That still wouldn't be forced induction. Its just that the n2o has more oxygen and the propane is high octane. They would still be at atmospheric pressure but with a high concentration of volatile chemicals.

>That still wouldn't be forced induction. Its just that the
>n2o has more oxygen and the propane is high octane. They would
>still be at atmospheric pressure but with a high concentration
>of volatile chemicals.

nitrous is forced induction sir. you are artificially created more air than whats in the combustion chamber, it is certainly not atmospheric pressure in there.


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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

uh huh

nitrous is not considered forced induction u could call it that cause your usging pressure to force it in but we all know forced induction is boost...

like some say VTEC is forced induction because when the valve timing kicks in it forces in more air wrong!

forced induction is forcing enough air in to make above 0-1 psi of pressure in the intake...

if u boosted with propane injection moderated right is useful, deisel guys live by it...


u can also think about alcohol injection and water injection...

Bill

ive always considered major power adders forced induction

nitrous, turbo, blower, they all do same thing, just different methods

so n2o gives you positive intake manifold pressures? :wary

stfu turbo8u. n2o is not FI, it never will be. :P

i guess it is and it isnt...yes its making more power by getting more o2 into the cylinders hence more powa but there isnt anything forcing the compression of the air like a turbo or supercharger does, which raises intake pressure..yeah its makes a shit load more power very simply but its kind of a different ball park...your bottle will run out before my turbo will so happy spraying!;-)

Nitrous is NOT forced induction. Forced induction is typically a turbochager, or supercharger, ones that actually "forces" the air/fuel mixture into the cylinders. N2o does not "force" the air into the cylinders. A little explanation here. The normal air we breathe, and the air our motors breathe, is not pure oxygen. There is many other elements comprised of the air we breathe. I can't go into specific deatail on what they are and how much(haha I breezed through chemistry class), but this is a general idea. Oxygen in its pure form, is full of potential energy(its very explosive per say). Nitrous uses pure oxygen with nitrogen buffers added to the mix, to keep it stable when ignited(nitrogen is kind of like octane for oxygen). When n2o is sprayed into the motor, it adds that pure oxygen and nitrogen to the normal air entering the engine's intake. But, it is NOT being "forced " into the motor, it's still being "sucked" in. We get that great extra power from nitrous, because we are burning a much more volatile mix of air and fuel, versus normal air and fuel coming in from the outside. Since pure oxygen is much more "explosive" than normal air, we get a much more powerful explosion in the cylinder, thus giving us that boost in power output. Propane injection looks very interesting. I dont know much about it, so I really dont have anything to add that would be useful on that subject.

way to clear it up man. whatever. so, who is gonna make the first diy kit?

you guys are right about the forced induction thing, all i meant was...even if the use of the words "forced induction" are not technically correct, they are based on the same principles.

A property of nitrous oxide is that at about 565 degrees F., it breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen. When it is introduced into the intake tract of an internal combustion engine, it is sucked into the combustion chamber and, on the compression stroke, when the charge air temperature reachs 565 deg., a very oxygen-rich mixture results. If we add extra fuel during nitrous oxide injection, the effect is like a super charger or increasing the compression ratio of the engine.

on the other hand "forced induction" cars compress the air in PSI, using atmospheric pressure as a means of supplying more oxygen. nitrous on the other hand explodes to release oxygen, same concepts. more oxygen + more fuel = more power, thats all i meant by nitrous being forced induction, because in my mind...it is in a small sense.


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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

Propane injection has been around a LONG time. you wont see me trying it though. i dont like the idea of driving around with a bottle of HIGHLY flammable liquid/vapor in my hatch. propane leak+ a friend that smokes=KABOOM! that stuff stinks too.

1999 Black C5
1997 Silver RS
Wiseco 8.8:1 Pistons(back to low compression!)
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
390's
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.3@90mph 2.015 60'(Nitto Drag radials, i suck)

hahaha...highly flammable...yea and its not like you are sitting on 13 gallons of 91-93 octane at any given time either :rolleyes

its safe. people use it all the time
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

heh. yeah, but i think the only thing people bitch about with prop. is that it is in your back seat riding with you. gasoline is where people can't really see it. and gas tanks have been safe, as in people have been using them forever. if you had propane on a car forever people would trust it just as much. they are just too scared or don't have cars that boost that high, or don't think the "risk" is worth it. someone go get a hummer and duck tape the propane tank to the bottom of the car and let it blow up. who cares, hummers are mine proof.:P

^^

wghat about motor homes with huge fuggin propane tanks.... its a safe gas to use if you arent dumb with it.

coleman makes small propane canisters, im thinkin about using one of those on my setup
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

im in the process of makin a water injection at 8psi

its pretty sweet ;) u guys should look into it. im sure bill knows what im talkin about :P
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

Yes im sure he does. Most guys that know their shit do. It was even used in the OG rally cars to push out above 300HP. IT also has the added benefits of cleaning out your engine. A lot of ppl beleive it to be a thing of the past and quoting corky bell " a band aid fix whos time has past". I myself find it interesting and a good alternative for us on a budget...hope your taking nots and documenting everything. For some reason we have less write ups then some of the sites ive visited;)

yea i would beg to differ on corky's deal about it being a cheap fix. i think water injection is one of the BEST ideas for a turboed 2gnt. water injection is not only CHEAP if you get the parts from other than a kit, it also is free....water anyway, at 8psi it will essentially fog my intake charged air in my intercooler pipes and cool my egt's enough to run more boost, not to mention yes...it steam cleans the internals.

u guys should look into this...seriously, another idea is to have it as a backup in case you ARE running lean or to high of egt's say at WOT on the freeway pullin 140mph, egty's will get pretty hot so just give your intake a little spritz and wam, lowers it by 100. also you could have it setup to a knock sensor from pocketlogger.com and have it spray if it detects knock

pretty simple way to have some engine assurance imo
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

just don't let it over fog. then you by hydro locked!

jeez haha you guys are gonna roast your pistons.

>jeez haha you guys are gonna roast your pistons.

haha dude, we arent gunna hydrolock....water injection has been around for a long time and is proven to be a way to lower the intake charge significantly. its not actual 'water' thats being sprayed into the intake. like hook it up to a garden hose and i'll just laugh at ur ass. its water mist that instantly vaporizes adding more oxygen and cooling the intake air. aquamist makes perfect nozzles for this, all you need is a boost activated switch and a high pressure (above 60psi) water pump. easy enough, aquamist even sells badass kits but theyre WAY to overrated, we can make one that worked on a more 'low key' level...home depot is for the dsm rangers

i'm makin it...so yea, hit me up if ur interested

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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

why not just buy a factory made kit on ebay... they're only like ~100. The turbo'd hondas use this like air.
Nick
97RS

turbo8u> shut your SUCK