Can anyone tell me if there is any point to making a cold air intake for the turbo. Will the heat of the turbo automatically warm the air back up until it hits the intercooler, or will colder air in = colder air out? Has anyone tried this with positive results?

Thanks in advance.

why do you think they sell CAI for say....a wrx?

colder air = denser air = more hp per psi of boost
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

im about to put a cold air on my turbo setup, ill let you know how it goes :)

James

>why do you think they sell CAI for say....a wrx?
>
>colder air = denser air = more hp per psi of boost

It's funny you mention the WRX, because this has been a long time debate with the WRX as far as any intake being of any hp advantage. The general idea is it doesn't help till you are heavily modded. And in some cases loss of HP but gain of torque has been seen.

I'd like to say, " It can't hurt..." but without a dyno run before a CAI and just the regular intake, even I can't say...:wary



http://www.cardomain.com/id/jasvbts2k2
"The ONLY Honda I'd mod would be ASIMO"

once that air goes through the compressor, the intercooler, all of the pipes inbetween, and the intake manifold the extra 5-10 degrees of intake cooling that you pick up by moving the air filter won't matter at all. keep it simple.

yea, there is no way you could make a cold air setup that would justify itself. The compressed air would be way too hot to adjust the temperature by anything noticeable. And you'd get laughed at for having cold air setup with your turbo. The cold air will just turn hot once it is compressed with the turbo.

the cold air intake wont help. turbo people have intercoolers. an intercooler is a lot better than a cold air intake. get a short ram air intake and get a nice front mount intercooler.

edit: also cold airintakes you can get hydrolock if you dont have a bypass valve or whatever..and hydrolock is gay and you dont want your engine to seize up. short ram air intakes you dont have to worry about that hydrolock bullshit.. i blow through inches of water with no problem.. my intake filter is close to my hood..not a couple of inches off of the ground.

how about if you make a custom sheet metal box around the filter area like what Corbin did to his car, are they any benefits being that the compressor side is not intaking the hot air from the exhaust manifold. i think that has to help some what with intake take temps.

Hate to rain on your parade, but a CAI does help out with turbos. Jamesman has a 3" set up plumbed to his S16g. You can't ignore the fact that the air closer to the ground is sometime 10*-15* colder, especially with a moving vehicle (when you factor in wind chill, and moisture).

Maybe that is why Mike W. at RRE runs a modified CAI on his 1g as well. Can not argue with thermodynamics.

And it's gotta help keep the turbo a little cooler too, which inturn helps keep the air temp down. But what was said before, I think the risks out weigh the benfits as far as hydrolock is concerned. A few degrees colder air Vs. a f'ed up engine....I think know what I'm going with.;)

Yeah but -- turbos create substantially more sucking force than a naturally aspirated car -- that whole thing about not having a problem with your car unless the filter is completely submerged -- I would really hate to see how a turbo pulling in air would do with a CAI in the rain -- hell but don't trust me I know nothing about hydrolocking a car that looked good and was running really nicely :thumbsup

Thanks for the info, just wanted to get some opinions. The hydrostatic lock up arguement is a very good one. I think I'll stick with what I have.

lol u dont have to worry about hydrolock unless your hittin a 5 inch deep puddle or something

cold air intake works on turbos i dont know what u guys are talking about. if this wasnt true why not strap a filter right to the turbo itself? or have no filter at all just put some cheese cloth over the turbine lol
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

u know whats funny about ur comment franklin, lol in FnF part 1, brians setup is a CAI with a T3/4 turbo....lol

And a NOS fogger with direct port injection:wary

last time I checked that's the same thing...kinda like a cheese burger with cheese.

But that's hollywood for ya:thumbsup

ok lets look at this logically

lets say the intake temp on a non cold air set up is 85 degrees

and the cold air is drwing in lets say 50 degrees ...

the air goes into the piping system and is heated up lets say 40 degrees

so thats ... 125 degrees for the non cold air and 90 degrees on the cold air ...


so i say it will help ... but will probably only show minor hp differences ... cause being turbo ... isnt about air temps .... its about air velocity ..

>isnt about air temps

yea um...whats the point of an intercooler then? air temp matters a TON. colder air charge = denser air (more oxygen in denser air), more 02 = more horsepower per pound of boost. colder boost is safer anyway
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Time for some math, kiddies!

If the air being taken into the turbo is at, say, 80 degrees farenheit (this is actually pretty reasonable for the underhood temperature of a moving car). This is 27 degrees celcius. That's 300 degrees kelvin.

Next scenario: you have air being taken into the turbo at 40 degrees farenheit, which is 4 degrees celcius. This is pretty reasonable for a cold air intake on a cold day, and it works out to 278 degrees kelvin.

Now, we can calculate the adiabatic heating, due to compression. going with the formula P1/T1 = P2/T2. We know that the starting pressure in the first engine is 14.7 PSI, and the starting temperature is 300 degrees kelvin. Say we boost to "15 psi," which is really 29.7 psi absolute. to best make this equation usable, let's use T2 = (P2 * T1) / P1. T2 = (29.7 * 300) / 14.7, so T2 = 606 degrees kelvin. Now, substitute the motor with the CAI's intake temperature, and the equation looks like (29.7 * 278) / 14.7 = T2. T2 is now equal to 561.67 degrees kelvin. This is a 7.3% difference in pre-intercooled intake temperature. Now, given it being 40 degrees outside (278 K), and having a decent FMIC with 80% efficiency, the after intercooler temperature for the first motor would be 343.6 degrees kelvin, and for the motor with the CAI 335 degrees kelvin. This is a 2.5% difference in after-intercooled intake temperature.

Hardly worth the effort to do a CAI, and less worthy of the math I just did. Plus, the reduction of partial pressure before the inducer would hurt power. This is a bit simplified, and one would need a compressor map and a lot more information to do the exact math, but I don't think that it would be worth the effort.

-=B-=

im my opinion, just concentrate on getting the most air to the turbos as possible.