Hey guys here is my latest work its only a prototype so the real one will have laser cut flanges and parts and better finishing touches...

but u get the idea...


65mm TB opening (hrm is this hinting im having 65mm tb's made wow guess you'll have to wait for those pics though =)











i can get more pics if people want...

estimated price at this point is 400$ retail 2gnt special around 375$

Bill

That looks pretty cool Bill. With a little polishing it'll have a pretty good bling factor to:thumbsup Any dyno test on it yet?

So you are keeping the stock runners? :wary

Where exactly are you desiging this manifold to make power?

Are there any plans to have to have shorter rounded runners with it instead of bolting to the stock?.. Increasing cross-sectional surface area and velocity will net the horsepower. I may be interested.





420a and ej20... both with boost

i'm sure if you included an option such as "for 4 more injector mounting points add $50" or something people would buy it. i might be tempted to buy it too. having a full sheetmetal manifold (not just the top part) would be even nicer. the INDY one is taking forever, i don't think it'll ever actually be completed.

having a 65mm throttle body would be awesome. for the N/A guys i don't think it would be that useful, but for the turbo guys it would be insane.

very very nice work bill. i'm interested in custom stuff, its all about supportin a fellow 2gnt.com member. get some dyno numbers up there, no sense in spendin money for no more power right?

p.s- how come when i click on the links in gottude.com for like parts and products and all that no page displays? the only thing on gottude.com that will load for me is the pictures of the blue eclipse at the beginning


96 talon esi-t



Uberingram> quit it turbo8u, you're turning me on
^^^^ this guy is for real

THAT THING LOOKS TIGHT! i suggest adding the extra injector ports also. it looks really proffesional for a prototype. now we can slap on corbins spacer with no fitment probs huh!

Very nice.

It looks like it would be pretty cheap, as it would just be bolting on a plenum to the stock bottom half of the runners, so no issues with injectors lining up properly.

The shorter runner length should be sufficient to help add top end power in either a non turbo or turbo setup, but as always a dyno run will let you know how sucessful your design is.

Is what you are selling just a bolt on for the top half of the manifold?

Yes if u take a look at the blackdog itnake manifolds they basically cut teh flange off the bottom ofa neon intake and weld ona box plenium and the blackdog intakes still outperform the indy intake in every dyno ive ever seen and this is basically a copy....

this intake was designed by the fabricator from phatridz he left phatridz and started his own business and i trust him to make something that is goona flow good since hes had so much time to expireiment...


dynos im working on...


8injectors are 25$ u goobers =)

sup man
well it looks pretty good but i expected more. I talked to a some guy with a neon that was running one of those manifolds but it was all sheet metal with wider and shorter runners. He said with his car being turbo he picked up 50hp which i would beleave over the neons stock manifold. Is there ne chance that he will be making new runners or is he just going to use the stock. I know that jason dude payed like 400 something and wasnt using his stock runners. Also he was running a 75mm tb with a option to go up 90mm if he wanted. I just think if he based it more on his neon design it would do better.

stage 4 clutch, aluminum flywheel, solid motor mounts, Phantom grip, phantom boost, egt, a/f, oil psi, apexi TT, Jeep TB, Star stage 2 with custom 3 inch downpipe out passenger side bumper, custom ground kit, flacon azenis, 2 inch drop, eibach camber kit, crank scrapper, AEM cam gears, AFX udp, and some other stuff

if u want to provide your lower intake manifold we can chop and do it...

if u want bigger tb say so done deal..


there are plans for a completly new intake manifold but yea can u say 700 or more for what were planning this is the cheaper option we found so far...

Bill

there are plans for a equal length reverse collector style manifold but not right now.. (extimated price expensive =)

It looks nice but I cannot see paying 400 for it. There really isn't that much invloved in its design. If it had the runners custom made then the price would be more reasonable.
Not trying to put you down Bill it looks really sweet.

the only thing blackdog does different is weld the runer to the box and he sells his at 650$ now and last i heard he raised the price again cause he doesn't have time to make them anymore...


if people wanna do a group buy i could get the price cheaper... flanges and time on the laser cnc is expensive to start...

Bill

>the only thing blackdog does different is weld the runer to
>the box and he sells his at 650$ now and last i heard he
>raised the price again cause he doesn't have time to make them
>anymore...
>
>
>if people wanna do a group buy i could get the price
>cheaper... flanges and time on the laser cnc is expensive to
>start...
>
>Bill

Yeah, that and make it for the neon. Have they ever built an intake manifold for an Eclipse and do you know anyone who is running one? Again, at what point do you feel this manifold would be necessary and where are you looking to move the power band if at all?

>Also he was running a 75mm
>tb with a option to go up 90mm if he wanted. I just think if
>he based it more on his neon design it would do better.

Why in God's name would you want a tb that big? A 60mm will flow enough for 600 whp. I mean dayam, that's just waaay overkill ;).

insane i am yes =)

over kill maybe...

the phatridz race car runs 90mm


anyone in for a group buy on these im gonna have 5 sets of laser cut flanges made im working on dyno numbers...

Bill

yea how many ponies do we expect to see out of a mod like this bill?

turbo8u, well, since its 700 bucks i'd expect 700 ponies. }( }( :thumbsup heh. gl bill, its looking good. and i think it is awesome you are so readily available to work with us. thats like when game programmers will work with the users. the programmers will just add shit sometimes if the end users want it. neato huh? keep it up.

the guy with the 75 is fully built so he needs that much probably but at first it had a adapter plate to where he was running his stock tb. Ok sence the neons have the same head just reversed wouldnt he already have the blue prints and all that stuff for the runners would it basically be the same. I mean he said he payed like 400 something and its all sheet metal. If u guys r wondering about quality and power increases that guy told me it made a world of difference in top and bottom end and the manifold it self was realy nice he said it lined up perfect and was a real quality job.

stage 4 clutch, aluminum flywheel, solid motor mounts, Phantom grip, phantom boost, egt, a/f, oil psi, apexi TT, Jeep TB, Star stage 2 with custom 3 inch downpipe out passenger side bumper, custom ground kit, falcon azenis, 2inch drop, eibach camber kit, crank scrapper, aem cam gears, afx udp and some other stuff

These manifolds were originally desinged for turbo because there is a large hp gain i wont have exact numbers till i spend the 200$ and get dyno numbers. and in turbo u really dont have much resonace tuning... but with utilizing the stock runners it shortens the runner length which in this case would be good cause our manifold is the alrgest restriction after exhaust is upgraded.

with the larger plenium there is more volume and air can get into the runners faster with less restiction..

however the design has proved in a nearly exact replica on the neons to have good gains about 20whp give or take a few ponies..


right now we are talking witha cnc shop about machining in velocity stacks at the runners (IE rounding the runner entrance so it flows really good...


Bill

keeps sounding better and better. once you get all the kinks worked out, maybe we can work you down on the price. :thumbsup you really dont know how much the 2gnt community appreciates your help. in fact, i'd be willing to sell the manifolds for you locally, i'll try to get with you on that later. :)

Lookin good man....keep us updated and get us some dyno numbers. If there is gonna be a group buy, I'm interested!

i feel that this is an awesome gain for us right here. i agree with this weather or not, it uses stock plenums and all. but are you going to be making different plenums for 'em, or could we send you our lower plenums and you just modify it to lower costs. i will just be happy with just the top portion of the manfold, and ship that and make it bolt on with the lower plenum. and i guess port match and polish the lower runner and that'll be enough for more airflow.

something that could be improved upon is making the runners larger by porting them out and then matching the opening on the intake manifold


these manifolds will be available with mustang tb's 65-90mm and they will work with the stock tps, with some modification...

the new flanges are going to be 3/8" thick so its a stronger flange for the bolt hoels too..

Bill

its a possibility that i can get dyno numbers in 2-3 weeks i have to work outa deal witha guy though so ill keep u guys updated..

sounds like u got some business there bill :) im still wantin to buy those suspension parts! i'll take a intake mani too, im all about helpin ya out
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

suspension will be done before spring i ahvent had much time to work on it lately turbo kits and motor had me swamped for a while..

Bill

Questions:

I'm Stage2 HRC @ 5-7psi, 2.5" downpipe, no cat, 2.5" cat-back

My friend has a GST with intake, 3" dp, no cat, and 2.5" cat-back. I'd guess I have about 230ish hp... since my car is as strong as his, if not a tad stronger in 3rd gear. Anyhow, I have stock internals....at ~6psi I am not concerned about them -- my question is, can I add as many 'other' mods as I want and leave the boost the same without have to worry about an increased chance of blowing my engine....or does adding other horsepower mods aside from turning up the boost increase my chances of blowing since I am adding horsepower, and that's what it all comes down to.

Lets say after this intake manifold I have 250hp and I'm at 6psi; is that the same effect on the engine as being at 10psi and making 250hp?

p.s. (All hp figures are just guesses...they may be off)

by putting on the intake manifold u are improving flow but not adding more air so it should not have a effect on reliability...

Bill

Those look awesome. Being N/A for now though do you think I would see any gains at all? My car is on the bottle, so I bet I would see my nitrous times improve with this manifold.

Also, are you going to make any that are 60mm to use with the MP throttle body? I think you should.. hehe

I want one.

-Chris b.

small mods such as a less restrictive exhaust, better plugs....ignition upgrade, ground wire kit, udp, p&p intake manifold, stuff like that...they just encourage horsepower. at 5-7 pounds and other little mods you will squeeze horsepower out and produce it more efficiently, (i.e- making you faster without adding horsies)

thats what its all about.


_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

The advantage of this would be a shorter runner, and maintaining the injector placement that Mitsu and Chrysler put so much effort into. I expect this manifold to flow much better at high RPMs, and not kill low RPM velocity too badly, especially once we have velocity stacks on the ports. The Neon intake manifold is am embarassment to the engineering community. Ours isn't as bad, but it is still suboptimal. This should eliminate most of the issues involved with the stock manifold, though. Also, to be noticed, is that the runners are small in the top part of the intake manifold, coming off of the plenum. They widen, as they enter the bottom half of the manifold, and then narrow down to create velocity. We are simply starting this manifold at the point where the runners are fat. And if you are still a disbeliever, then just hold out for the dyno numbers. I will have some N/A dyno numbers soon enough, and maybe a good comparison (stock vs. GotTude) on my 2.4 turbo shortly thereafter.
-=B-=

BTW: The reverse collecter manifold was my idea... ;) If you like that, just wait for the fuel rail that will go with it!

>something that could be improved upon
>is making the runners larger by porting
>them out and then matching the opening
>on the intake manifold

BINGO! That is all that really needs to be done to the lower part.

I have been running Ray's (PureRage) intake for about 6 months. It is basically the same thing Bill is designing except it is 4" tube welded to the lower part of the stock intake and it also takes a 70mm Mustang TB. Being Turbo the gains are VERY worth it. The top end is better, spool is 1000rpm quicker, and throttle response is improved by at least 50%.

If you have a turbo your next two mods should be larger intake manifold and 3" turbo to tip exhaust. (If you don’t have them already)

I don’t care what anyone says, ANYTHING is better than the stock intake.

Brian

damn i can't even imagine a 70mm TB, airflow would flow SOOO fast and responsive, i think that's a tremendous gain right there. do you know of a website with a Mustang 70mm TB for a good price?

do u have any pics of the bottom of it. Just wondering what it looks like. Thanks

if u need more pics email me...


all manifolds that are setup at 65mm will work just fine for 60mm tb's

mustang tb's will be available soon working ona price of billet ones under 175$

Bill

Would you be willing to add 4 extra injector port on the runner if we requested it?

yes email me about it

so what is the update. I am not seeing how my CAI would fit with this setup. The TB will be lower and closer to firewall, can the CAI fit any closer to the batter tie down thing??

>so what is the update.

Well, you asked, so here's the update. I was asked if I would mind fitting it on my car and seeing how it works out on the dyno.

I agreed, because I was curious to see if it would add power to a naturally aspirated car (and for selfish reasons of course: I want to go faster, so if it worked on the dyno, that'd be good for me, because I could keep it on the car for the 1/4 mile)

>I am not seeing how my CAI would fit
>with this setup.

You're not seeing it because it doesn't.

>The TB will be lower and closer to firewall,

yes, but taht wasn't the problem (explained below)

>can the CAI fit any closer to the batter tie down thing??

no, it can not.



Here were the problems. DISCLAIMER: (Now it IS a prototype, I'll say that much, so a number of things wern't exactly the way they should have been but wern't a hinderance and were easily corrected, but OTHER things were seriously overlooked and a serious problem, even for a prototype. I should have paid closer attention to the TB placement too, but I didn't, my bad, but the whole endeavor will remind me to pay attention more in the future.)

Of the three fittings holes on the top for vacuum ports and the temp sensor, only one was the correct size. This was NOT a big deal, as drilling and tapping holes in aluminum is easy (well for me it is, again it was a prototype so this in NOT what I would consider a major problem for a prototype). The problem was easily and quickly corrected.

There is no provision for a port in the front of the manifold for the PCV valve (it's pressed into the stock manifold). Again, no big deal, I bought a $2 piece from home depot, drilled and tapped another hole, screwed it in. Again, the problem was easily solved, no big deal.

The manifold has no provision for EGR (well, that's not important at all! I just thought I'd mention it) I did not put a hole in it for EGR (I'm dumb, but not that dumb)

The manifold, WITH THE TEMP SENSOR AND VACUUM PORTS ATTACHED, just BARELY fit in the car. While placing them on the back side of the top is fine for the stock manifold, this piece sits right next to the firewall. On this manifold, once the temp sensor is in place, it is a tight squeeze (and that's being generous!). The ports shoul have been placed directly on top of the manifold. I think this should have been though of before hand, but it did fit.

Now here's the real problem. I put the TB on the manifold. (notice how far over to the side teh TB will be? I didn't x( )There was NO room between the TB and the washer fluid reservoir for the intake pipe/CAI. Even if I removed the washer fluid reservoir, the CAI could not possibly not fit, because the TB was so far over to the driver's side of the car, that it would have to exist in the same point in time and space as the battery. You would have to remove the washer fluid reservoir, and remove the battery entirely and relocate it in orer to get an intake tube on the TB in that location.

And don't think a smaller battery would work! I have a very small battery in my car, and there was STILL no chance of the intake tube fitting.

Now, the incorrect placement of the TB is a major, inexcusable oversight, even for a prototype. How can you test it if everything attached to it won't fit properly? While the manifold did fit in the car (sort of), it is obvious whomever welded it up (and I have to give credit where it is due, it is BEAUTIFULLY welded!) did not measure things out properly and did not consider how it would actually fit in the engine bay of a 2GNT.


I was told the manifold would be modified so the TB would be at least closer to the proper condition, but I can only imagine the manifold would be so hacked up it would be worse for a naturally aspirated car. (Maybe a turbo car won't care)

Either way, it's not going back on my car. I recommended starting from scratch and measuring things out properly the first time, instead of trying to hack up that intake so it will fit.

Not trying to be mean, but I could look at that and tell it wasnt going to work. I have taken my upper half off two times and I know space is tight in there. But my ERG and washer bottle have been removed. I have the corbin spacer and JeepTB and that doesnt work either.

The IAC on the jeepTB is big and sits on top, with the spacer on, it scratches the underside of my hood.

I have contacted several companies about making a custom intake manifold for us. All have failed or arent doing it. So the only option we have is extrude hone for about $375-$400.

Our manifolds aren't that bad, like the neon's. The only thing that really hurts performance is the fact that the runners are long and ruff inside and probably full of carbon which kills velocity.

how about just using that original idea pictures on top without that sheet metal idea, using just the stock upper section, cut the runners from the upper plenum, and weld it to the bottom plenum then port and polish. that would all fit and give you better airflow.

Well, I guess that Bill was told that it had no chance of fitting with a battery. I wasn't told that, though. Ah well, live and learn. He wasn't, however, told that it wouldn't fit with a firewall or a washer fluid reservoir.
-=B-=

I'm droping my car off at fast fabrications tuesday to test a header fitment and the intake manifold fitment. When i talked to him on the phone though he thinks he may have found a solution for theses problems. Hopefully with my car there he will beable to to figure out what works and doesnt so we can finally have a good aftermarket intake manifold for our cars
stage 4 clutch, aluminum flywheel, solid motor mounts, Phantom grip, phantom boost, egt, a/f, oil psi, apexi TT, Jeep TB, Star stage 2 with custom 3 inch downpipe out passenger side bumper, custom ground kit, falcon azenis, 2 inch drop, eibach camber kit, crank scrapper,AEM cam gear, short shifter, and some other stuff

Todd, did you run with it installed - or did you just fit it in there? I'm dying to know how it performed. Did you take it to the dyno?


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
15.901 @ 88.34mph
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

jim todd couldn't get it in operatiuonal form with his battery there and the washer fluid resivor...

hopefully jason comes up with something much better on round #2

if not this will probably be put off till i can design one to relocate the throttle body..

Bill

On what basis are you designing this manifold? You really are using the crap shoot method and have no idea do you? Did you seriously just design a part for a car with absolutely no measurements? I guess when you copy something you like to hope the part you are copying worked too, even if it never was for our car in the first place. :rolleyes

Honestly, you can look at the design and tell it wouldn't fit. The runners on the upper plenum bend bringing the top portion in towards the VC. There isn't all that much room between the stock manifold and the fire wall as it is.

Murix: i didn't lay a hand on desiging the manifold Jason at fast fabs is the one who did all the work on it.

Jasons back ground was built at phat ridz building all of their intakes and exhausts for the race cars and shop cars he has an extensive knowledge that surpasses mine on intakes.

Jason built the manifold blindly because we couldn't find a car for him to test fit that is why i got the manifold was for test fitting..

he designed the manifold to increase the plenium volume by 20% is the number that i remember.. the manifold was designed to remove the restictive pemium and long upper runners...

The design is for a turbo car and that for the most part doesn't have a big part in runner tuning, as long as velocity and flow is not hurt by going tooo big.

from the past we know that somewhere around 7" of runer length is awesome for a na car (neons u can find enough dyno charts for other neon manifold to see the resonance tuning fora na car) the bottom half of our manifold is damn close to that.

I Hope I Took care of your questions Murix, didn't mean to overlook yours earlier in the thread

Bill

>>>here is my latest work<<<

>>>i didn't lay a hand on desiging the manifold Jason at fast fabs is the one who did all the work on it.<<<


:wary