Last week, I sent my block to Vtengines for a rebuild. I spoke with Nick and he is going to get me all the parts that I requested. I wanted to check if there is anything else I should replace while the engine is being swapped. Here is what I bought so far:

Engine Rebuild from (VTengines)

Paint / Clean Engine Block (Vtengines)

New Crank Sprocket (Mitsubishi Part through VTengines - Original owner of the block did not have the right tool to remove it and damaged it)

New Meling Oil Pump (Vtengines)

New Water Pump (Mitsubishi Part through VTengines)

Cometic Head Gasket (MLS) and Upper Gasket Kit (spark plug well gaskets, valve cover gasket, etc)

New Tensioner Pulley (Mitsubishi Part through VTengines)

New Idler Pulley (Mitsubishi Part through VTengines)

New Oil Pan Gasket (Mitsubishi Part through VTengines)

New Clutchmaster Stage 4 Clutch (Modular, haven't decided where to order from yet)

New 30lb Injectors


That's all I have on the list so far. Is there anything I am forgetting? I have replaced my timing belt, power steering, and altenator belt about 5,000 miles ago so they will be reused. I have about 3 weeks left until I get the engine back and would like to start ordering the last final parts so they will be ready to install once I get the engine back.


I wasn't planning to do the Stage III upgrade so soon but there was an engine block on ebay in my area for $60 bucks so I picked it up. Can't beat that deal!

Thanks,
Kurt

IMO 30# injectors are not enough for a solid "Stage 3" setup. You need 390-440cc injectors for the fuel system to be stable at 15+ psi.

>IMO 30# injectors are not enough for a solid "Stage 3" setup.
> You need 390-440cc injectors for the fuel system to be stable
>at 15+ psi.

Agree completly! I am maxing out my 30 lbers at around 13 psi..fuel pressure is well over 100 psi. I am going to assume you can run about a good 16-17 psi on some 390cc injects. Thats def enough to have some good fun :) Also, 390's should be able to be controlled with just using the SFMU and fuel pressures, so no SAFC needed. Anything larger than that, then you will prob have to use a SAFC to idle decent.

I haven't purchase the 30lb injectors yet that's why I was asking. I have heard/read some bad results of using the SAFC controller in our cars due to advancing the timing when trying to lean out the injectors. I personally have never messed with a SAFC. My ideal setup would be use larger injectors but tune them with only the sfmu. I will probably call Hahn Racecraft and see what they recommend as I will probably get the clutch and injectors from them (unless I find a better deal). They should have some knowledge on the situation based on experience. Also aren't they coming out with a new fuel system soon?


I also was going to use the 30lb setup because XtremeRS was able to run them with no SAFC with good fuel trim readings (STFT and LTFT).



Has anyone been able to run 390cc (or close to) without a SAFC?


P.S. Matt, maybe you could keep an eye on my engine block since I think you've said you live 5-10 minutes away and are good friends with Nick!! - just kidding.


Thanks,
Kurt

I ran 450cc injectors w/o an SAFC but the tuning was bad, but the car did run and tear up the track. 415 and under will be no problem w/o an SAFC... I'm now running 400cc Mustang Cobra injectors w/o one.

>
>
>I also was going to use the 30lb setup because XtremeRS was
>able to run them with no SAFC with good fuel trim readings
>(STFT and LTFT).


Yeah, I idle around 20-21 psi, and i get stock like STFT's. Very good.
>
>
>
>Has anyone been able to run 390cc (or close to) without a
>SAFC?

Yeah, should be no problem. I say you would want an idle fuel pressure of around 17-18 psi. Even if your STFT is avove 0, it can actualy be as high as -20% if you wanted to. That just means that the ECU has very little room left to lean out the duty cycle of the injectors. If the STFT isnt pegged at -25%, then you really aren't running rich.
>
>
>P.S. Matt, maybe you could keep an eye on my engine block
>since I think you've said you live 5-10 minutes away and are
>good friends with Nick!! - just kidding.

Hehe, well that was Matt_95tgs that lived by them. He has actually just moved from there to Virginia Beach, VA, so not so close anymore :( I'm about an hour or so away from VT.

i agree on the injectors

id get a factory gasket kit for 80$ from fenton dodge (better then cosmetic)

and id also swap out the Clutch Masters stage 4 for a stage 4 from Pro Clutch that i sell with the 6 month unlimited mile warranty

plus its cheap =)

Bill
p.s. good luck with the turbo setup...

dougie, u say u had a little problem with your 450cc, why? isn't 450cc enough? (asking b/c i don't know). in HRC stage 3 turbokit, it comes with 500cc. is the only reason why HRC stage 3 is running 500cc because it's controlled by the Hahn PowerFuel Module? im also going to rebuild my engine soon so i need some knowledge before i do it and i also want to buy the perfect size injectors so i don't have to keep buying new injectors because of fuel problems.

b/c injectors larger than 440s need more than just an SFMU like I was using.

Won't the Hahn PowerFuel Module handle the 500cc's?

I still haven't had a chance to talk to Hahn Racecraft yet about the injectors but I am leaning towards the 390cc injectors (as everyone recommended) as long as I could control them with the SFMU. Hahn should also be able to provide me with base/full boost pressure settings but I will keep everybody's recommendations in mind. The more knowledge I have the easier the tuning will go.

I was shocked to see that a Stage 4 Clutch Masters is almost $800 bucks. I thought I saw it for around $500 but I must have been looking at a stage III. Guess I better work a few more hours of overtime at my job (at least it is unlimited!). By the way Motofool, how much is the equivalent Pro Clutch Kit?


Does anybody also know if Vtengines does head work (port and polishing) or a company that does good head work? I've been trying to secure a stock head with less than 50,000 miles on it (that hasn't had any work done) from either someone on this forum or through ebay. I sent emails to a couple of guys but no one has taken my offers. I've also been debating if porting and polishing a head really makes a whole lot of difference with forced induction motors (the air has to go in the motor - it has no choice - I could be wrong). Opinions?


Thanks guys,
Kurt

From what i understand, the HRC powerfuel module will only support boost up to 15 psi, then from there, they continue to use the Accel DFI. I'm going to use the Greddy E-manage coming up here for the downtime this winter. And I had my head ported and polished out really good. Its hard to say weather it made any good power gains, but i'd say a little bit at the least. I never dynoed from stock head to that, so no hard proof of what the outcome was. Needless to say, it wasnt a magical increase in power..def didnt feel like it anyway. I'm sure it did help, how much, well i'd estimate maybe 10-15 HP. Hell i dont know..

i have stage 4 clutches for 450$ 6month unlimited mile warranty
and we can upp the presure plate to whatever u like as far as clamp load 6 puck or 4 puck....

Bill

ported head only help if u have everything in the line opened up ported to match intake manifold 60mm tb and port work by somone who knows what they are doign and a good set of ferrea valves will definatly help...

while your in the head have the cams coated in moly to decrease friction and put a thermal barrier on the combustion chambers to keep heat out of the cylider head...

i am working with a well know porter from the neon world to get it setup so he builds 2gnt heads...
(he used to port for blackdog and now has his own business)

Bill

Yeah, the guy who ported my head, had over 50 hours into it. It was done very, very well IMO. But, i sure dont have the intake mani, or TB larger either sooo... But the head was ported/polished, intake and exaust, and also both were gasket matched for size. The ports looked fuggin sweeettt.
He also used a flow bench to verify even and proper flow through all the ports..

so wtf?? i still don't get this... has anyone ever push 500cc or even higher? and what kind of AFC or fuel system they used? and if they do use the APEXi AFC with the 500cc, the timing advance would be bad? sorry for all the questions, i'm just new into this stage and im really trying to get as much info before i rebuild. thanks

>so wtf?? i still don't get this... has anyone ever push 500cc
>or even higher? and what kind of AFC or fuel system they used?
>and if they do use the APEXi AFC with the 500cc, the timing
>advance would be bad? sorry for all the questions, i'm just
>new into this stage and im really trying to get as much info
>before i rebuild. thanks


There were a few guys running over 440's on here, but thats all I know about it. You CAN use the SAFC to correct for fuel, but only in small amounts. Most have proven that any corections at +/- 10%, will NOT effect igniton timing at all. You can correct even more, providing you use an MSD igniton to retard the timing a degree or two. Too much timing under heavy boost will cause detonation, and thats bad. Basically you want to use fuel pressure as much as you can, then use the SAFC to fine tune that. Its amazing how much fuel pressure tuning can make the injectors spray more or less fuel. It does have its limits though, and thats where the SAFC comes into play if you go larger than 415's. There also are a few guys using the Accel DFI, which some will use when pushing lots of power. Using larger than 440's without a DFI or standalone, is still fairly new territory...

yeah, I was looking into the ACCEL DFI. but HRC won't sell the kits seperately. b/c if i do get the ACCEL DFI, it has to be from them b/c its just a plug and go thing. no mapping, no nothing. but they won't sell it seperately. i'm just kind of piss because i feel like i'm limited. i want to know if its worth rebuilding my engine, you know what i mean. how much the accel DFI go for anyways?

I called Hahn Racecraft this morning but they couldn't help me very much. The did know about you guys running the 30lb injectors without the SAFC and did say it works pretty well :thumbsup. However, he wasn't able to give me any advice with the 390 cc except for possibly using a SAFC and a ignition with timing retard (to lean them out).

So I return with some more questions. Should I go middle of the road and buy the 335cc injectors that Hahn sells or go straight 390cc? I also know that someone said that Hahn rates their injectors a little different than others (@ 45 psi of fuel pressure). If I specify I want 390cc, will they actually be 390cc (according to other manufacturers ratings)?


For those using around 390 injectors, could you post what your idle and boost pressures are (@ what boost pressure also)?


Thanks alot. This thread has really cleared up alot of issues for me.
Kurt

Cool. Maybe I might go that path, using the SAFC. Only reason why I didnt want to get it b/c I heard it advanced timing, but I see alot of people has it and made amazing power out of it. So I guess its pretty good.

Go with 390cc or 415cc injectors and use just an S-FMU. You'll be just fine and if you want you can use the S-AFC for minor adjustments only.

Alright, you guys have convinced me that 390cc is the way to go for 15 psi daily :). I would like someone who is using just the 390cc injectors (or close to) and a SFMU as their setup to post their fuel pressures.

Please include injector size, idle fuel pressure, max boost fuel pressure, and max boost so that I have a baseline to start at when tuning my new motor.

Thanks alot,
Kurt

Well I cant recall anyone who is running those injects, but start out with around 17-18 psi of fuel at full idle, and use the 2.72" disk. See what that does. If you have the bleed valve, then use the largest disk, then open up the bleed valve a good 2 turns to lower the rise rate of that disk a bit. I really like using the largest disk, and then opening up the bleed valve to fine tune. This way, I know i have plenty of fuel pressure to work with. This is how i'm doing it now with the 310's.