So I am seriously thinking it might be smart to go ahead and do the rebuild. For the short term or even long run. Acording to Howell this is thier list. $1100
Kit Includes:
Clevite 77 or Federal Mogul Rod Bearing Set
Clevite 77 or Federal Mogul Main Bearing Set
Total Seal Piston Rings
Mopar Oil Pan Gasket Set (includes rear main seal)
Melling Oil Pump
Eagle Specialty Forged Rods
JE Pistons

What else would be recommend at this stage? My car is going on 60k miles. Timing belt, maybe new 30lb injectors at this time. Also what about machine shop? What cost should I be expecting here? And if I pay a shop to do all the work what are we talking about? Is the only way to get the stroker kit buy getting the 2.2 Howell block, what would a shop charge to do such work instead? Lots of questions but I want to get this done right the first time....TIA


http://www.cardomain.com/id/jasvbts2k2
"The ONLY Honda I'd mod would be ASIMO"

I'm in the same boat so I want to keep this bumped.

I would also suggest getting the following:
- water pump
- all new belts
- new pulleys, or at least new tensioner pulley
- new timing belt tensioner
- top end gasket set (includes MLS head gasket)
- ARP head studs

The total cost from the machine shop I went to was $1300, but I ended up needing a few unexpected parts as well as the labor costs.

VT Comp engines, they charge $1600 parts and labor and do great work.

http://www.vtengines.com/ShortMitsu.htm

Nick has been talking about stroking the 420a. I bet if you have the time to wait he will do it for you. give them a call, they can get you all the other parts you want for the rebuild also.

I'll tell you right now. You ought to talk to Motofool (Bill).
He owns www.GOTTUDE.com and has the same stuff for less money. Also, he's always been helpful to me. I ordered my bottom end kit from him almost 2 months ago and just started to rebuild this past weekend (see sig). I called him up 3 different times out of the blue on Sunday and he never once got bugged by it. He answered all my questions and yesterday went out at the last minute when I called to get the bearings I needed. I changed motors and ordered the wrong bearings.
For just a bit less than Howell's price, I got:
Wiseco 10.5:1 pistons, Eagle ESP rods, Clevite 77 bearings, the oil pump, etc.

The point: get in touch with Bill before you order. Even if the price is exactly the same. I think you get more personalized service from Bill. I would highly reccommend him. :thumbsup

I will also agree that Bill is a great guy to work with. Im getting my turbo kit from him and I had a lot of questions and I emailed him a bunch of times asking different things. He answered my emails fast and did not seem bothered by all the emails. He is definitley a great guy to go through. when i get around to building my bottom end ill most likely go to him again. very helpful

As far as I know Howell only offers the 2.2L stroker as an assembled bottom end package. If you are thinking about it I say go for it. I like mine very much!

>So I am seriously thinking it might be smart to go ahead and
>do the rebuild. For the short term or even long run. Acording
>to Howell this is thier list. $1100
>Kit Includes:
>Clevite 77 or Federal Mogul Rod Bearing Set
>Clevite 77 or Federal Mogul Main Bearing Set
>Total Seal Piston Rings
>Mopar Oil Pan Gasket Set (includes rear main seal)
>Melling Oil Pump
>Eagle Specialty Forged Rods
>JE Pistons
>
>What else would be recommend at this stage?

A MLS head gasket and performance clutch. I recommend throwing in a LSD at the same time.

My car is going on
>60k miles. Timing belt, maybe new 30lb injectors at this time.

Don't forget about the water pump, pulleys and tensioner.



>Also what about machine shop? What cost should I be expecting
>here?


I paid about $300, and that included installing new valve stem seals and resurfacing the head.

And if I pay a shop to do all the work what are we
>talking about?

Probably $1000. That's a good deal of work.

Is the only way to get the stroker kit by
>getting the 2.2 Howell block, what would a shop charge to do
>such work instead?

I don't know of another shop that's capable of the cusotomization of doing a stroker kit on a 420a. Have Howell do it, or forget about it. Now having Howell do the rebuild and machine work might draw some differences of opinion.

I gotta go with etx and say that you can't beat VT's price. 1600 for a completely machined, balanced and assembled block is one heck of a deal. They use the exact same parts that come with the howell bottom end and I know first hand that they do amazing work since they are located 5 minutes away from my house. All their machining equipment is state of the art (see their website). Also, Nick is looking into finding a supplier for stroker cranks for the 420A. As soon as he finds one, the stroker will be an option. It shouldn't take him too long to find one.

Thanx guys for the response. Someone should make a list and put it in the 2GNT sections cause this can help alot of peeps in this next step. I am curious on the VT block though. That seems very interesting. So would I have to send them my motor for all that or is there an exchange like with Howell? I was quoted for a local guy, which another 2GNT member recommended and used, that machine work could be done for $150 and that parts would be less than Howell's package $1100. And I am all for helping out local shops. It's very tough for me cause I am indecive of selling the car, also. And I already got a clutch, flywheel, LSD, and motor mounts. Thanx again guys! :thumbsup


http://www.cardomain.com/id/jasvbts2k2
"The ONLY Honda I'd mod would be ASIMO"

Send your motor to VT engines. You WONT be dissapointed! They did the machining on my block ( I did the assembly to save some cash, plus its lots of fun!), and it looked awsome. They use a special new "diamond hone" that finishes off the cylinder after boring. My rings were broken in, in about 100 miles. Their shop is one badddassss place..

yea i wanna know if they've got some type of exchange thing setup too or if we hafta send in our block and wait for it to come back. my car's my daily driver... i'm really interested in VTengines though. i'm kinda afraid to ask what shipping would be like since i'm in hawaii. idk of any local shops down here that would have the same kinda quality. like there's some local machine shops but not really any that specialize in specific engins like VT. does anyone from there post on the board?

-marc

='95 RS 5spd Red=
Matrix CAI
A'pexi Turbo N1
Hanabi 8000k HID
SPAL Deluxe Power Windows
Nakayama GT5 17's
Ractive STB
GSX Calipers
AEM Rotors

255 is fricken short

I am almost finished with having my parts for my bottom end complete. It will be assembled within a week or so. I am using a spare motor that I purchased a long time ago.

95 420A block from an Eclipse, bored .020 over(tighter specs than JE Recommends) and all machine work cost me $100

Balancing the rotating assembly $100

Shortblock assembly $350

JE Pistons with JE Rings, 8.8:1 compression $475
Eagle Rods $305
These are not standard prices...small hookup.

I bought two sets of Clevite main bearings and one set of rod bearings from Howellautomotive. Earlier this week I ordered my Melling Oil pump and it should be here Monday. Also from Howell.

Mitsu/Mopar lower gasket set was not that much cheaper than what Howell sells it for. I paid wholesale from a local satan dealer.

I also had the entire bottom end cryo treated. Pistons/rings, rods, bearings, crank and block. This cost me just over $400 total(jobber pricing). A word of advice never never cryo treat a block before you have it machined. This did not happen to me, but your machinist will not be happy.

I did not really save any money on parts by spreading it out, but my engine builder already had the pistons/rings and rods at his shop. I also got to do everything slowly and this helped me financially. I do believe the cryo treatment was the best money spent.

I will start the head project next month. This should take me 2-3 months to have that finished the way I want it.

These are the parts that will be used.
PT cruiser lifter lash adjusters
Blackdog rocker arms
Crane turbo grind cams
Crane springs with titanium retainers
SI stainless valves 1mm oversized
Mitsu upper gasket set with MLS headgasket
ARP headstuds

Stage II port and polish with minor bowl work. I will internet source everything but the valves. $10.50 each from my builder

Complete porting(flow bench tested), 3-angle valve job and building the head will cost me $350. This is a hookup price and is not normal. He usually charges $250 for the head/machine work. Since he himself is porting the head he is only charging me $100.

I will be doing all the rest of the labor on the car. Here is just an example on what it costs or requires for a good build. Like everyone else said there are many other parts(belts, tensioners and water pump etc. etc.)

Sometimes I wonder if all the headache is worth it, but seeing many friends with 400-700whp street driven cars keeps me going.

oh oh! Jas is stepping up. Nice to hear your keeping the DSM alive. When you do get the rebuild, tell me how it goes. I'm also thinking of rebuilding my engine but not anytime soon. I got to work my ass off first. But I want to know how much the entire project cost. iiiightzz? TTYL man. -engz

another thing to think about is moly and ceramic coating i think it would benefit more then cry otratings u can gain almost 20% of the power lost in friction with 170$ and it lasts much longer!

coatings cover the piston tops in ceramic
moly coated side skirts and wrist pin
moly coated rod and main bearings

pistons 100$
bearings 70$ for both

Bill

Where are you getting your coatings done at?

I have a local cryo treatment facility(good friend/local racing club member)so it does not cost me any money in shipping or sales tax for that matter.

I have heard of people doing both cryo treating and ceramic coating. The strength that cryo treating provides is unbelieveable, but it does not do anything for friction loss.

Since I am at this stage and the possiblity of a 2.2L stroker is out there? Why would I want one over say a regular rebuilt or prepped motor? I know many say ability to make more power but what are the limits of our motors and turbo kits? Would other factors prevent from the ability of a stroker motor to be fully appreciated? I'm trying to understand if it's worth it or use the money in another areas (coatings,etc) to take a stock rebuilt further...:wary


http://www.cardomain.com/id/jasvbts2k2
"The ONLY Honda I'd mod would be ASIMO"

The main advantages of a stroker are better low end torque, and it has the ability to spool a turbo faster. It does however increase the rod angle and the distance that the piston has to travel which reduces your potential redline. Its all a matter of what you want for your car. I decided to go with a motor that would have a very strong top end which is why I went with a 2.0. I wanted it to have more capabilities in the higher rpm range.

local guy here in town that owns a specialy engine shop that builds some amazing things he also manages a mass rebuild engine shop..

he does cermaic and moly caotings, thre is a guy about 2 hrs away that does cryo...

cryo is good for strength it does not help the melting point of metal though and that is what ceramic helps, it pushes heat away...

moly coating provides a protective barrier for metal transfer and less friction between the metals..

then there is oil shed and a long list of other ways to improve your motor other then slapping in forged internals...

Bill

I talked with my engine builder and found out his father does ceramic and moly coatings for race motors. He also does valves as well.

I am going to have the piston does ceramic coated and the skirts moly coated along with the rod/main bearings. When I order my valves, he will ceramic coat them as well. This is suppose to help me to be less prone to detonation because the heat spreads evenly over the top of the piston and does not get hot spots.

Just more stuff for safety. Thanks for the advice!