Car is a 2.2L stroker with a HRC stage 3+

I checked for the following things...

1. Coilpack 12.6 Kilo-ohms as supposed to be.
2. Getting fuel. 40psi at rail ( I know that is really high ) Getting car dyno-tuned at Extreme Motorsports on Thurs provided I can drive it there.

3. Barely used plugs...15 miles
4. New MSD wires.
5. Car cranks over like it wants to start but wont, so starter is OK
6. Checked fuses just in case, and all are fine
7. Voltage at battery...12-14 volts so that is fine

I decided to take a plugs out and ground it against the exhaust manifold to see if I was getting spark. NO SPARK!!!! But WHY???? Everything else seems fine and it should start.

Possibly flooded the engine? Any suggestion are more than welcome.

At this point I am completely stumped!!! Please help.

Moderators, accidentally posted in this forum so please move to appropriate one if necessary.

Sounds like a cam angle sensor...hook yourself up to a scan tool. But my car didn't throw that code when I needed one, so it might be your culprite.


Good Luck:thumbsup

check your coil pack and the connection to it from the ecu

Might check in on that.

Anyone have any other suggestions or experiences? Cat is supposed to go to the dyno on Thursday so I need this solved ASAP. Thanks.

What about the MSD? Did you say that you get the voltage at the coil after the MSD? If you get no spark at all from any of the plugs then I would say it's the coil. Check the MSD and the coil. Are some plugs getting spark? Were they grounded properly when you tested them? What about the ASD relay?

check cam shaft position sensor, crank position sensor.. if those are working ok, then its the ecu.

Thanks for the added responses. Lets KEEP THEM COMING PLEASE!!!!!!

Latest developments. Checked the codes on my car and I got a 54. Camshaft Sensor. Replaced that. Checked the codes again and everything checks out OK. Figure the motor is flooded, so I try a technique from a site. FLOOR the gas pedal and keep cranking the motor. Finally fired up. Idled fine for about 20mins. Left it at my friends house and came back after work to drive it home. Halfway home the SOB died on me while I was driving. Cant get it to fire again. Left it on the side of the street in a neighborhood. ( Fingers crossed it makes it through the night untouched )

I cannot seem to lean the F-KER out with the SFMU. Look in the General forum to see what I have done to try. 40psi at the rail. About to throw some M-F-ing stock injectors back in the biatch and sell it.

CAN ANYONE HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!

bro it sounds like your cam angle sensor......

try the ignition relay...ive been having the same exact problem- car will turn over but not start and not getting spark while it does....now if i push the relay some it will then start...so i'm pretty sure i've got it narrowed down....but ive replaced everything just like you and nothing helped so far...

Yeah check that relay. If anyone around you drives a 2gnt, switch the relay with theres and you will know. Or they prolly are not that expensive to replace. As for the fuel, if you know you are having issues you can address that after you figure this out. AFAIK it's hard to flood a FI engine.

Newest developments.

Went to the car this morning and tried to start it. It burped twice like it wanted to start.....but then it didn't. Went the the "stealership" dealership, and they said that they didnt have the ASD relay. They couldnt even order it because it was on MEGA-backorder!!! Story of my life. Turns out they were kind enough to tell me that the other dealership in the area has some. $15 for one and $45 for the other. Prolly buy both just to be safe. BEFORE I DO THO.......is the ASD one of the relays that is mounted to the firewall by the clutch and brake master cylinders?????? On another note the car ( when it was still running ) would cut out on me doing like 80 on the freeway and whenever I was driving around....then come back to life. Does that sound like the ASD relay??

SFMU concerns now for those who have success using one.

I did some research and found a diagram on how to install the SFMU. Turns out mine was not setup incorrectly ( I THINK ) The way that I had it set up was.... Vacuum hose on the static barb as expected. The "out port" connected to the fuel return. THEN, I had a fuel pressure gauge in the "test port" on the fuel rail and a fuel line connected to the "in port" on the SFMU to the right hand side of the fuel rail where there is a barb.
Then underneath the right hand side of the fuel rail barb connection I just mentioned is the high pressure fuel line that feeds fuel from the pump to the rail.

Today I removed the fuel pressure gauge from the test port and installed the line that WAS connected to the right-hand side fuel rail barb there. Which I think was the reason I coould not adjust the fuel pressure for static and idle. BUT that leaves the barb open so I plugged it. The dealer said that It was changed in 95 to not have that barb for some reason. Anyone else have the early 95 fuel rail type with the SFMU installed.

Sorry so long, but I figure if I am gonna ask for help I need to be as detailed as I can to help you out.

AGAIN MANY thanks fo rall your help. Keep the suggestions coming. :thumbsup

Kirby as far as the MSD I did not even have it hooked up yet. I was waiting till the motor was broken in, and left the stock ignition just to get the car on the road. I didnt want that to be ANOTHER reason to keep me off the road. I hooked it up the other day, but I am still having the starting problems whether or not I use the stock ignition setup or the MSD.

Dont waste all the money on relays at the dealer. Go to a alarm/stero shop and ask them for a few SPDT relays. They will plug right into the stock relay harnesses. They should only charge at most 5 bucks a piece for them. The only thing is, is that they wont be able to slide onto the relay retaining bracket, but just for testing purposes, thats just fine. I like the DEI relays the best, as i work with those everyday at my job.

hey guys i finaly got the board to let me register. but my car has been stuck in ms for a month now with the same problems as you describe. i'm thinking it is the asd relay cause i have not got any check engine lights. i have a code scanner. but it won't start for shit. satan wants 25 for relay but like someone said not in stock. could you tell me more about the dei relay hell i make a trip this weekend if i can fix it for 5 bux i really miss my car. thanks

Ok Green, the fuel set up that you had the first time was right. The fuel should feed into the fuel rail through that line after the filter like it does stock. Then that line that comes off the barb goes to the IN port on the SFMU. Then the OUT port goes to the hardline return line that is stock. Switch it back to the way it was. The reason you can't adjust fuel pressure is because you can't see it without the guage hooked up to that test port. The ignition relay is the only one you need, so I would just buy that one. I think that will solve your issues. You see sometimes you are getting spark and other times not. As for the guy right ^^^ yours sounds like the same problem. Just have the dealer check the dealer link and call a place that has one and have them ship it, or you can have your dealer ship order it from the other dealer and then go pick it up.

THE LATEST....

Went to the dealer that had the ASD relay ( ignition relay ) in stock. Dont ask how much it cost! Anyway I bought that and the fuel pump relay that was MUCH cheaper just to be safe. Went to my car that is at an undisclosed location:D and put the new relays in.........

.....well you can guess why I am STILL mad as hell and writing this. Didn't seem to work. So I am thinking the car needs to go to the dealer unless you all have any more ideas. I am frustrated as hell!!!!!

Kirby thanks for the input on the SFMU setup. BUT I could not get the fuel press. to go down even with the gauge installed in the "test port".

Another thing. My car is not even showing a check engine light anymore. I try to do the OFF-ON-OFF-ON..to get the cars engine light to flash and see what codes are being thrown and it doesnt even do that!! WTF!!!I disconnected the battery completely thinking that might solve the prob, but with my luck NAY NAY!!!! NOTHING!

Anyone have any ideas. Much thanks to all of you! :thumbsup

you should at least see the check engine light turn on when you turn the key to the "ON" position and it will either stay on or shut off. If you arent seeing at least this you could have pcm probs. On a side note we still cant get the 2.4 started (see post in performance/engine forum)

Well I HOPE its not the PCM!!!!!!!. But as my luck goes.........it is! DAMN!!!! AT this point I just want the Biatch running! I missed my dyno appt at Extreme Motorsports today. Needless to say I am almost broke and very disappointed.

well now that i here this i'm afraid that mine might not be the asd relay. green if you don't mind how much was your relay? can i use the alarm relay like stated eairler or maybe my nitrous relay? green did you change your cam sensor? i'm afraid to spend the gas money to drive 6 hours away to fix it and it not fix. pisses you off real bad doesn't it? me too. hope to hear good news soon. thanks for the help guys

Well the dealer that I go to hooks me up. The parts guy is really nice and I have ordered a lot of stuff from him. He quoted me $45 for the ignition control relay ( ASD ) and $15 for the fuel pump relay. He said that they were on MEGA-backorder! THen he told me that the dealer in Tyson's Corner....a more affluent part of town had a bunch of them. So I drove out there to get them. Turns out they charged me $61 for the ASD and $21 for the fuel pump relay.

I am really not sure of the DEI relays that was suggested. I know jack-crap about electronics. I hated to spend the money, but I was to the point where I just wanted the car running. I will keep you updated as I am trying to get the car to the dealer.

BTW...does your check engine light come on likt normal? If it does then you may not have the same problems that I have and maybe a relay might work for you.

I cant believe they charged you that much for a relay. I mean shit, both the ASD and fuel relays are the SAME EXACT THING! And they want to charge that much for it! I just cant believe dealerships.. Yes, a normal DEI relay will work just fine, its the same exact thing, a SPDT 12v automotove relay, the only thing is that, the DEI relay will not ahve that slide on mounting tab on it, to mount it to the car's relay mount. No big deal... I can sell those DEI relays for a few bucks a piece.. FYI, I work with automotove electrical systems every day :)

Thats cool man. I was just not sure. I wish that I had gotten those instead. The stealership sucks!!!!!!

Does anyone else think that it may be the PCM? I really hope that its not the case and it is something much simpler that I am just overlooking.

Well for all those who care and were suffering the same symptoms, I need to replace my PCM according to the dealer. Said it was an "internal error". Please note that I was not getting a Check engine light either. If you are still getting the light then you may not have the same problem. As my luck always seems to go ......worst case scenario!!!! F-ME man!!!! hope everyone else suffering from similar symptoms has better luck.

95 green that sucks to hear that it's your pcm. i'm going to go check mine this weekend so i'll let you guys know how it goes i hope it's not the pcm. i think i get the engine light when i turn the car on stiil was you not getting the light at all? please let me know thanks

No check engine light on AT ALL. Started out that the car would die. Then the car became increasingly hard to start. Eventually the check engine light just wouldnt come on no matter what I did.

Hopefully you still get yours to light up. If not then you will most likely be in the same boat. I really wanna go to the shootout, but if this sorta stuff keeps happening, I may not have the green to go.

Did your check engine light ever come on when you first turn your key to the run position? If it wasnt coming on then, then i have seen another case of a bad computer, just like this. The CEL never came on when the key was turned on.. It should come on, and when the car starts, light up, then go out as a self check.

For a while the car would not start, but I always had the check engine light come on when I turned the key to ACC. or ON ( whichever one ) and then also when I started the car and it did it's "self-check". BUT before I towed it to the dealer, the light NEVER came on at all no matter what position the key was in.

Dealer put in the new ECU and said that the car started up. Picking it up tomorrow hopefully.

They said that I was throwing the camshaft sensor code still, but I replaced that sensor not three days before I towed the car to the dealer. Any insights?

i wouldn't buy a new ecu from a dealer. i believe the cost is around 800 bux.. i got my replace from a junk yard for 130.

James

hey man, i think there are 2 95-96 ecus in the classifieds right now. tell the dealer to loan u one until you can purchase one for 700 dollars less. goodluck, cant wait to see some dyno #'s.

Well I got the car back today and all seems to be running well. Hopefully things stay that way. My girl and I are still planning on going to the shootout if the car stays reliable between now and then.

BTW it turned out that the PCM was only $532 but with the $228 diagnotsic added on it ended up being that much more. I thought I was gonna have to pay $1100!!!! Anyways glad to be back on the road and FINALLY get to drive in my new seats!!!!

Also the new PCM has a 1 year/12,000 mile warranty.

just so yuou know my starter relay went bad, called mitsu they wasted 39 dollars, called dodge and told them the starter relay went bad on my Talon ESi and they charged me 8 dollars shipped

well i have good news. i finally found out what was wrong. the wiring harness below my intake had been melting to the goldish colored metal tube under it. so about 1 hour and some black tape later it's doing good, but i started getting a batt. light. and my door handle broke so now i got more problems thanks for your help guys

green95hrcgs..you said extreme motorsports? you live in Maryland? Are you part of DSMCA (capital area)..we're one of the biggest DSM clubs in the nation..you should check us out..we had a 150 car turbo DSM meet just a few weeks ago at a park. We had a couple private 'open house' meets with free dyno pulls at Extreme Motorsports on a weekend..they closed the shop just for us. We got to see the World's Fastest Talon, a new brand Evolution that they modded, and got discounts on shit at the store.. if you want more info about the club..email or message me.. our DSM club is very active and we have about 3 or 4 meets a year..one being our annual get together where people from all over PA, NC, VA, MD, DC, WV, TN, KY come down to northern Virginia to hang out and win prizes,contests..etc..etc only a couple turbo 420as show up every year and i'm sure the 4g63 guys would love seeing a nice turbo 420a :)

"the wiring harness below my intake had been melting to the goldish colored metal tube under it."

fuxxing EGR is what that is, almost had the same thing happen to mine. glad you fixed it and if its not broke or doesnt have a CEL, its not a DSM =)