Okay. what do you guys make of this given my issue with possibly having bigger injectors than i thought, and running rich with SFMU static @ 30psi, idle @ 18psi, 6psi boost. (hell, maybe i should just bump up to 8-9psi boost)
datalogger says i have a running rich code and a MAP sensor voltage code also.

STFT avg. 10.23
LTFT avg, 23.31, but motstly @ 25

are the stft and ltft + or -? for ltft you dont want it at 25% its max out dude, got to bring that down 15% or less, and stft give or take +/-2 about. also what size injectors do you got? is this the hrc kit or ? what ring,disk,spring are you using?


Okay. what do you guys make of this given my issue with possibly having bigger injectors than i thought, and running rich with SFMU static @ 30psi, idle @ 18psi, 6psi boost. (hell, maybe i should just bump up to 8-9psi boost)
datalogger says i have a running rich code and a MAP sensor voltage code also.

STFT avg. 10.23
LTFT avg, 23.31, but motstly @ 25


Michael 99gs 8-Injector Setup
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

>>>are the stft and ltft + or -? for ltft you dont want it at 25% its max out dude, got to bring that down 15% or less, and stft give or take +/-2 about. also what size injectors do you got? is this the hrc kit or ? what ring,disk,spring are you using?<<<

They are both -. The problem about the injectors is that i dont know what size they are. i was told they were 310's when i bought them, but with what im running for fuel pressures im beginning to doubt they are 310's. im thinking bigger.

this is a custom kit i did, no hrc. im using the short black spring with the 2.72 disc and ring.

are they the ford injectors? if so what color are they?
Michael 99gs 8-Injector Setup
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

they are supposedly accel 30lbs injectors. they have the yellow top on them. i bought them from a guy called ecl98pse from the board, he said he was selling them cause he ran to rich.

well the accel have a number on it. take a close look at it. you should be able to see it. something like 24, 30, 40 etc. get back to us and let us know. but fix your fuel trims its too high.
Michael 99gs 8-Injector Setup
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

as far as fixing the fuel trims, how? change disc/ring in SFMU? turn down fuel pressure even more with existing disc/ring? use SAFC to make corrections? or run a few more lbs boost???!!!
thanks for all you help so far...

well i wouldn't use an safc to do any trims, and running more boost won't solve the problem either, b/c the sfmu will still rise proportional to the amount of boost it sees. have you gotten any WOT pulls? what're your o2 volts at WOT? why don't you just try to keep lowering the fp until the trims are correct. go by 1/4 turns on the static set screw. you should only have to drop it a couple psi to get it up to around zero. you're pretty close on your stft now. the problem is if you go too low on your fp, there may not be enough pressure to get a good spray out of the injector, but that would only be at idle. just give it a try and let us know how it goes

ok so they 'might' be #30. just take a look dude, look at the injector on the passengers side i think you can see it from there, just grab a light if so. but overall you need to get it to a low 'ltft' number.i had #30 ford injectors and i used my afc to lean idle down a little, but you can do it just by lowering fp. just 'try' to lower it down more till you get it around +/-2range i would stay on the -2% area for ltft, and stft should be cool. the disk/ring within the super fmu is for the rise/rate you could use the 3.62" (biggest) or the 2.72"disk/ring combo. with either use the dark colored short spring to start tuning. if they are the #40 innjector you might have to go to 10-15psi witih the short silver spring to idle ok. after adjusting your fp at idle let the car idle for a few mins to adjust.
good luck
Michael 99gs 8-Injector Setup
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

Okay, heres some WOT runs, no fuel pressure correction made yet:

Run 1:

stft = avg. -5.943
ltft = avg. -19.941
spark adv. avg. = 31 deg.
absolute Throttle Position = 77.3%

Run 2:

stft = avg. -4.774
ltft = avg. -16.667
spark adv. avg. = 25 deg
absolute TP = 77.3%

Run 3:

stft = avg. - 3.281
ltft = avg. - 15.781
spark adv. avg. = 26 deg
absolute TP = 77.3%

Run 4:

stft avg. -5.190
ltft avg. -17.118
spark adv. avg. =21 deg
absolute TP = 77.3%

Now, on the datalogger i have 2 o2 sensors that look like this"
$14 O2S11 SHRTFT11 avg. 0.534v Max 0.960v
$15 O2S12 SHRTFT12 avg. 0.395v Max 1.04v


I was under the impression that the fisrt one was the 1st O2 sensor in the DP, which was where i was getting my AF #'s from, but the rich reading is off what i think is the #2 o2 sensor. what gives on that???

Any ideas why i might be seeing only 77% @ WOT? i have the modern performance Tb and my SAFC says im getting 100% @ WOT.

How low can i go on my FP settings? my idle is already about 17psi.

UFDA!!!!!

well first, don't pay any attention to the rear o2. your o2 voltage is pretty much perfect at .96, just a bit rich, but that's good. your fuel trims aren't bad either, mine are very similar. it's gonna be very hard to get your ltft around 0 w/ larger injects. as long as your o2 volts are good at WOT, which they are, you're pretty set. if you want, start to bring the fp down a very little bit at a time, like 1/8 turns, but you should be fine the way they are.

about the throttle pos. i only see a max of 74, and my plate(stock tb) is perfectly horizontal. i think corbin said that WOT for us is going to give a 75ish reading, so you're actually a bit over it at 77, but no big deal.

thanks so very much! I put in new plugs (6e-11's) today, gapped to .032 and turned down the static to 28psi, giving me about 16-17psi idle. still idles good,so i will run it later (working a 48hr shift) and get back to ya wiht more results.

Thanks again for the help.

TIm

nice man, looks like it's almost tuned.

i'll be away for 10 days though so i won't be around here until i'm back. peace fellas, hope those europeans don't really hate all americans :)

Tim, I just gotta say that setup looks so badass! Thats one of the cleanest looking custom setups I've seen. :thumbsup

Don't be surprised if the datalogger says you only get 77% throttle position when you are WOT. The datalogger is generic and looks for a certain TPS voltage. Our TPS voltage is just lower than the datalogger expects to see at WOT. And I wouldn't pay attention to fuel trims at WOT. The LTFT freezes as you break 0 psi and the STFT freezes as you hit open loop. Fuel trims are only meaningful while the ECU is reading the O2 sensor and adjusting the trims (closed loop).

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Nice tim... The setup looks great!
This thread is extremly usefull maybe we could get it pinned for a few and/or placed in the things we've seen before section.

Your fuel trims look very similar to mine. I'd say you have the 30lbers. Anyway, its more important to keep your STFT closer to 0%, rather than the LTFT. The ECU uses STFT to insantly compensate and adjust your A/F ratio per readings from the o2 sensor. I notice when i go WOT or into open loop, both my trims go to 0 %, as this is when i know i am in open loop. In open loop, fuel trims are meaningless, since the ECU is running the engine off of pre-programmed fuel maps. In closed loop, the ECU is adjusting A/F ratio off of the o2, which is what you look at in fuel trims. The only time you will get a too rich CEL, is when BOTH your STFT and LTFT are maxxed out at -25%. This is telling you that the ECU has absolutly NO room left to shorten the injector pulse width(fuel spray out the injector). If you have a -15% STFT, this doesnt mean you are running rich at all, it just means that the ECU is trying to trim 15% of fuel to keep the engine running the optimum A/F ratio. This is why you typicaly want to keep STFT as close to 0,because this give the ECU its greatest room for intantaneous fuel adjustment( +25 to -25%). Running larger than stock injects, it will be very difficult to get LTFT close to 0. In order to do this, you need to get your STFT's to go into the lower positive #'s for a bit. STFT is telling you waht the ECU is instantly adjusting, and LTFT is telling you what the ECU has been doing over a greater amout of time. If you want to lower your STFT's, then lower your fuel pressure a tad bit. Just by lowering several psi, that can lower trim #'s by a few numbers. If you can get the STFT to get into the lower positives as you drive around, then that will start to bring down the LTFT #'s. Even with normal stock injects, the STFT will fluctuate in the postives and negatives, but it will be around +7% to -7% or around there.

>Okay, heres some WOT runs, no fuel pressure correction made
>yet:
>
>Run 1:
>
>stft = avg. -5.943
>ltft = avg. -19.941


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>spark adv. avg. = 31 deg.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


HUGE RED FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dude, how negative are your high throttle s-afc settings???? your only saving grace is that you are running rich at a low boost level. most cars run between 17 and 15 degrees of timing advance at wide open throttle. much more causes detonation on supreme unleaded gas (93 octane). if you aren't doing so, you need to retard yoru timing AT LEAST 12 degrees at WOT under boost, or correct yoru sensor inputs so your ecu understands that you motor has load on it. if you don't, you will find chrused ring lands, blow off spark plug tips, pistons that look like titleist golf balls, and a NASTY looking compression chamber in your head. fuel trims are almost absolutely irrellavent in regards to tuning, as long as yoru car is performing correctly. if the ecu has to correct +25 or _25 doesn't matter, as long as your air fuel ratio is "right". .96 on your o2 sensor is about right, but your car has WAYYYYYYYYY too much timing. either correct that, or run 100+ octane gas 100% of the time, and you will be fine.
A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on...........

Okay. datalogged 2 normal driving runs (no WOT) after lowering SFMU fuel pressure to 28psi static giving 16-17psi idle:

Run 1:
STFT avg. = -7.82, max +5.46, min. -25.00
LTFT avg. = -22.22
spark adv. avg. = 25.11 deg. (get ready for this) MAX 42.5 deg., min. 0.5 deg.

Run 2: (short drive, battery died in laptop)
STFT avg. = -5.27, max +21.88, min. -25.00
LTFT avg. = 20.33
spark adv. avg. = 11.98 deg. MAX 40.5 deg., min. -2.00 deg

Armond, i am not using my SAFC for corrections. everything is set to 0%. I do however have some mild regrind cams that are 585-185 @.050 if that has anything to do with it. Also if the load % on my datalogger is the same as the "engine load" you mentioned then heres those numbers:
Run 1: avg. 13.1%, max 49% min. 5.1%
run 2: avg. 8.8%, max 34%, min. 6%

i dont imagine i can go much lower on the FP at idle, so now what?
any ideas, or am i lookin okay?

if your wot runs have more then 19 degrees advance you better fix it. if your not in wot runs it should not matter so much of how much advance you get. but for sure wot no more then 19 advance to be safe.
Michael 99gs 8-Injector Setup
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

correct. your timign advance figures arent' taht important at partial throttle unless you rae using less than 93 octane. just worry abotu wot there. if yrou ecu fo rsome reason is givign you that much timing, then you are one fo the few that "need" timing retard no matter what. my afx ecu did that, but that was programmed to give 27 degrees of timing at wot.


A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on...........