Hey, im building up a 420a head right now and saving my cash to get the block up to VT for the bottom end work. I want to the head myself. I got the PT rockers and lifters from forum dodge last week, and i plan on ordering the #14 crane turbo cams. But while i have the head off i want to put some nice valves in and do the springs and retainers. I can get the cams, springs, & retainers at ramchargers. But I am having a hard time figuring out what kind of valves to get, and where to get them. Should i get SS or titanium? Std side or over sized? If i can get standard sized valves and just install them into the head myself thats what i want to do, unless the 1mm over is going to yeild a decent gain. And in that case i would have to have the head machined right? I really want to build this motor to handle 20+ psi (not that im really going to run that) and money is no issue, more money just means i have to wait longer to get the parts. I have a built motor in my 2g right now, but I am not happy with it at all. And its in the body shop right now :( . Anyone with insight on head work please point me in the right direction. I am going to take my time and make this guy badass! }(

sorry if this should be posted in the engine/performance section, but im building this head for high boost and im sure im going to have high temps

well here is my little run down of my build list for my head, i was going to do it b4 I went turbo, but I decided to put it off cuz I have boost envy. As far as what kind of valves to get, I would go with oversized valves, they will allow the car to make more power in the long run. But w/out further ado(u) (however the hell u spell it):

Cylinder Head Install Check List


Part Have Need Cost
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Inside Cylinder Head:

Cams $400 Crane Cams #16 Howell Automotive
Valve Stem Seals NA
PT Cruiser Followers $145 Black Dog
Performance Lash Adjusters $89.95 Howell Automotive
Valves $230 Black Dog
Performance Springs $99.95 Howell Automotive
Keepers $20.00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Upper Gasket Kit:

Valve Cover Gasket $15
Spark Plug Tube Seals $10
Cylinder Head Gasket $50
Cam Seals N/A
Cam Sensor Seal N/A
Upper Intake Manifold Gasket N/A
Lower Intake Manifold Gasket N/A
Exhaust Manifold Gasket N/A
Thermostat Gasket N/A
Thermostat Housing Gasket N/A
EGR Valve Gasket N/A
EGR Tube Gaskets N/A
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Timing Belt Related:

Cam Gears $267 Black Dog
Timing Belt Not needed
Water Pump $100
Timing Belt Tensioner Not Needed
Timing Belt Tensioner Pulley Not Needed
Timing Belt Idler Pulley Not needed
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miscellaneous:

Thermostat $10
Coolant $7.50
Oil $35.00
Oil Filter $10.00


Total: $1389.90

I would go with stainless valves - they stand up to more heat than the stockers. Titanium valves would be nice, but they are extremely expensive. Crower quotes $90 a valve for the 4g63 - that's $1400 a set. With 1mm over you'll have to have the seats machined - with the standard size you won't. I'm really not sure how much of a gain the oversize valves will get you. If you go DIY with standard size valves - don't forget to lap them in for a tight seal.

The 14s are a nice choice. You'll definately see some gain from them.

Springs are good. Crower sells a set of nice springs with titanium retainers for $250.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

Lap them in? whats that? :+

I already have the PT rockers and lifters, along with the upper gasket set. That includes the MLS HG, cam seals, valve cover and spark plug gaskets, etc. What are keepers? and where do valve stem seals go?

I think I might go with the std size valves so i can do everything myself. good idea / bad idea? And ill get the SS valves. :thumbsup

I hear so many bad things about Howell I am going to do my best to stay away from them. I can get the #14 crane cams from ramchargers for $409 so ill do that.

Also what is a good way to clean the head? The exaust side is real nasty. I was soaking it in gas but that didnt loosen the goo without a lot of scrubing, and i cant scrub the inside. thanks guys!

Get a dremel tool, polishing bits, and paste and polish the fuck out of your exhaust and intake ports....you may not want to port them, but polish this bejezus out of them }(

heh sweet ill do that! I didnt know it was that easy. I dont have a dremel, but i have a rotozip. Its kinda the same thing, i hope they have the stuff for it. Can i find that stuff at home depot? :thumbsup

"If you go DIY with standard size valves - don't forget to lap them in for a tight seal."


I think I am going with the std size. The guy at the machine shop said the oversized ones are for damaged head that need to be machined to get going again. Sound right? So what does lap them in mean? thanks

Lapping is probably the most basic part of a standard valve job. The process cuts the seat to the valve and gives a nice tight seal. There's probably some good info about it on the net, but here are the basics.

A lapping tool looks like a stick with a suction cup at the end of it - like this http://www.autopart.com/Tools/file/part57.htm

Lapping compund generally comes in coarse and fine grit - http://www.autopart.com/Tools/file/part58.htm

To lap the valves you put a little lapping compound around the valve seat. Then you take the stick and plunger it to the bottom of the valve. Insert the valve into the head so it's sitting on the seat. Then with the lapping tool - make like an (american)indian would to make fire. Roll it back and forth between your hands and GENTLY put some downward force on it. Install the valves in the ports that they were used to lap.

If the head is in good shape, then you'll probably only need to use the fine grit....and should only need to "make fire" like 5 or 6 times to ensure a good seal. If the seats are in bad shape start with the coarse compound till the sound changes, then give it 5 or 6 passes with the fine.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

shit. thanks man! you rock! anything else i should know about like this? like i said, this is the first time i have rebuilt a head. thanks!

Well, yeah. Check out the fsm in Dino's sig. The overhaul manual has a section on the head. Checking the gasket surface for flatness is important. If that is out of spec then you'll definately want to have a machine shop flatten it. Checking wear on the valve guides is pretty important too.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

i wouldn't say that OS valves are for damaged heads...

OS valves are often for more power being they will flow more when the head is ported out enough to handle them...

lapping isn't a bad idea but i can get carried away...

if the money was avalable to me id probably have a vale job done and make sure they seal right...

Bill

i would suggest having the valves done by a shop. it cost me $160 to have mine done. it included vatting/milling of the head, and installation.
i was gonna do it myself but its a motherfucker just trying to find the right valvespring compressor.

heh, ok. I guess I will have VT do the valves also. But its easy enuf to install the lifters, rockers, and cams right?

yeah the cams, lifters and rockers are easy.
check out http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/dsm/2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf

Oh yeah, compressing the valves.

I forget who it was that gave me this tip, but it's a goodie. You can use a drill press to do it. Find a hole saw bit that'll fit over the spring and shave it's teeth off. Then cut an access hole in the side of it so you can get the retainers out. Instant valve spring compressor. Pretty neat huh?


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html