Hey all,

There is still one fundamental concept I don't fully understand yet about turbo's. That is the wastegate. I mean, I understand that on many turbo's, they come with an internal wastegate set to a certain PSI, some having a limited range of adjustments eg. +/- 3 psi. Is an internal wastegate bypassable? Is it easy? Do you then need an external wastegate? I'll explain why I'm curious.

I am in the planning and research stages of my custom turbo system idea, and have pretty much decided on Hahn's Super 16G turbo. They offer it in 10 and 15 psi internal wastegates. I don't immediately plan to use an intercooler, and don't have stronger pistons or rods. Therefore I plan to only run 5-7 psi. How can I run 5-7 psi on a turbo with a 10 psi wastegate? If someone could clarify this, I would much appreciate it.

Thanks!

>Hey all,
>
>There is still one fundamental concept I don't fully
>understand yet about turbo's. That is the wastegate. I
>mean, I understand that on many turbo's, they come with an
>internal wastegate set to a certain PSI, some having a limited
>range of adjustments eg. +/- 3 psi. Is an internal wastegate
>bypassable? Is it easy? Do you then need an external
>wastegate? I'll explain why I'm curious.
>
>I am in the planning and research stages of my custom turbo
>system idea, and have pretty much decided on Hahn's Super 16G
>turbo. They offer it in 10 and 15 psi internal wastegates. I
>don't immediately plan to use an intercooler, and don't have
>stronger pistons or rods. Therefore I plan to only run 5-7
>psi. How can I run 5-7 psi on a turbo with a 10 psi
>wastegate? If someone could clarify this, I would much
>appreciate it.
>
>Thanks!

why don't you plan on using a intercooler.... I personnally think that is foolish...... if your going to use a custom turbo then intercool it.... end of discussion on that.......

if you plan on turboing make sure you have money saved to do a rebuild on your bottom end.......

one you can't run a 10psi spring wastegate and be running 5-7 psi.. if you have a 10 psi wastegate then you will be running 10psi....

you can just get a 16G turbo with 5lb internal wastegate and use that...

Is an internal wastegate
>bypassable? Is it easy? Do you then need an external
>wastegate? I'll explain why I'm curious.
yes you can weld your internal wastegate but there is no need in your setup you want to attain.... and if you did yes you would need an external wastegate welded onto the exaust manifold.......

My original plans didn't include an intercooler because I've gathered that you don't really need one for 5-6 psi. If it's really neccessary, what's the cheapest effective setup? I'm thinking maybe a 1st gen unit. What kind of piping do you need to hook up the turbo to the I/C, and then to the TB? Would 3" silicone work or does it have to be metal, and also, how would you fabricate the piping for blow-off valve?

Also, you said that I would need a bottom end rebuild soon... I am under the impression that our engines work fine until you start approaching the 300 hp range? I will not have enough money for any internal mods anytime soon...

Thanks for the reply!

-Mark

>My original plans didn't include an intercooler because I've
>gathered that you don't really need one for 5-6 psi. If it's
>really neccessary, what's the cheapest effective setup? I'm
>thinking maybe a 1st gen unit. What kind of piping do you
>need to hook up the turbo to the I/C, and then to the TB?
>Would 3" silicone work or does it have to be metal, and also,
>how would you fabricate the piping for blow-off valve?
>
>Also, you said that I would need a bottom end rebuild soon...
>I am under the impression that our engines work fine until you
>start approaching the 300 hp range? I will not have enough
>money for any internal mods anytime soon...
>
>Thanks for the reply!
>
>-Mark
unless you have a second car cause it looks like you don't have the money for the rebuild i would wait till you save up for a rebuild... saying this because a lot of people blow rings easy cause our internals can't handle boost... and an intercooler reduces the heat going into the engine which will destroy an engine.... there are many people on hear with stage 1 that have intercoolers...

bro if you don't know how to hook up the intercooler than stay away from a custom kit and just save up for the HRC kit... it will save you a lot of headaches in the long run..... you don't seem to know too much about turbo's and are trying to build a custom kit...:nono
unless you know a shitload about turbo cars then i don't suggest doing a custom kit... stick with the ones that are engineered and have been tested and restested and are also owned by many people on this forum....
save your money and buy the HRC kit..........:thumbsup

Well man, I appreciate your concern, but I'm told I can save a whole hell of a lot of money by building up the kit myself. I've been doing a lot of research, but my biggest problem is that some of what I want to know is just hard to find, like the intercooler piping question. The main reason I don't want to buy a HRC kit is because everyone says the fuel system it comes with is shit. The FPR is not stable, nor the black box, and the fuel pump isn't great either. Theres a few hundred dollars of parts that I'm going to have to buy before I can even get it working good. I do know quite a bit about engines, but am still learning about turbo systems.

I am going to go against your advice to save for a kit. I mean, I could save money by just buying everything in the HRC kit, and reading the instruction manual online! Secondly, I'm not wasting money on shoddy fuel system components.

>Well man, I appreciate your concern, but I'm told I can save
>a whole hell of a lot of money by building up the kit myself.
>I've been doing a lot of research, but my biggest problem is
>that some of what I want to know is just hard to find, like
>the intercooler piping question. The main reason I don't want
>to buy a HRC kit is because everyone says the fuel system it
>comes with is shit. The FPR is not stable, nor the black box,
>and the fuel pump isn't great either. Theres a few hundred
>dollars of parts that I'm going to have to buy before I can
>even get it working good. I do know quite a bit about
>engines, but am still learning about turbo systems.
>
>I am going to go against your advice to save for a kit. I
>mean, I could save money by just buying everything in the HRC
>kit, and reading the instruction manual online! Secondly, I'm
>not wasting money on shoddy fuel system components.


hey look it's your 6th post and i'v been here for years... you should take advice from people that know what they are doing .....
yes the fuel system is shitty but it still works fine... and if you did your reasearch on this forum... you would see most of us go with the SFMU instead of the one HRC supplies...... and also use the missing link instead of the FCD....
IMO you need to use the search function if you want to find out about intercooling piping and other stuff about turbo's cause most of your ?'s can be answered because they have been asked before...
Good luck with your custom turbo.........

>hey look it's your 6th post and i'v been here for years... you
>should take advice from people that know what they are doing
>.....
> yes the fuel system is shitty but it still works fine... and
>if you did your reasearch on this forum... you would see most
>of us go with the SFMU instead of the one HRC supplies......
>and also use the missing link instead of the FCD....
>IMO you need to use the search function if you want to find
>out about intercooling piping and other stuff about turbo's
>cause most of your ?'s can be answered because they have been
>asked before...
>Good luck with your custom turbo.........

Don't think I am trying to undermine your experiance. I am very appreciative of your help and concern, and I have done research on this forum and have seen that people use the Vortech FPR, the Walbro 255 fuel pump, and the missing link as a fuel cut defencer. You're just assuming that since I don't know how the intercooler hooks up, I don't know anything about turbo systems. Hopefully you'll understand that I'm on a limited budget, and this idea of mine is nowhere near concrete. I may not end up with even enough money to do any of this, but right now it looks like I could get a couple grand in the next month or so, and this sounds like a good way to spend it. I do look forward to your advice and concerns about this plan, and hopefully when I run into problems you'll be able to assist me. Sorry if I sounded defiant to your opinions.

Thanks,
Mark

no i didn't take it like that at all.... i'm just suggesting to you that you shouldn't be turboing if you don't have money for reapairs like bottom end...... cause if you don't and you blow a ring you won't have a car till you save up for a rebuild.... ask around this board there are quite a few people that have had to rebuild thinking that they wouldn't need it... this is one recent that just installed his kit and a few days later he blew a ring and has to do the rebuild....

Do you really think I'll have problems right away with mild boost on stock internals? If so, how far would you go with internal mods? Pistons and rings? Rods too?

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com

Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

>Do you really think I'll have problems right away with mild
>boost on stock internals? If so, how far would you go with
>internal mods? Pistons and rings? Rods too?
>
>1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
>
>Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana
>
>


first let me comment on your car... It is very nice I like it....:thumbsup :7

It doesn't happen to everyone... but i would have the money just in case it does.. there are guys that have been running there stock internals for a long time with no probems but then there are guys that it only lasts a few days... and yes i would do both rods and pistons... eagle rods are great for the money not that much and either a je piston or i forget which others ones they make for the 420a.. howell sells a complete kit.... you would be better off going with lower compression pistons for boosted applications.....

Thanks man. Your 2G is badass too... we have the same side skirts. Aerogear brand? Your doors have clearance problems with 'em? Mine do :(


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

5-6psi wioth proper fueling and you'll be fine, even with no IC. You'll have trouble when you start getting boost happy.

No one in their right mine switches from the HRC inline to the Walbro. The HRC inline is just a better pump. As far as the Cartech and FCD go, that's one of the nice things about HRC - the support. If you have trouble with either of them and call HRC, they'll tell you what to do about it, or send you the parts for need to fix it, usually at no cost. You don't have that with a custom kit.

As far as your turbo question goes, you have no need to bypass the internal gate - just buy the HRC S16G with a 7lb actuator for the internal wastegate. You'll see 5-6psi at the manifold. This is what their stage 1 kits come with. Problem solved.

I still say you'd be better off buying the kit. The parts in the fuel system are not bad at all, we're just performance junkies and perfectionists.

Hmm... this Howell company I keep seeing around the forum has pictures of my car on their website. Hmmm....

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

>No one in their right mine switches from the HRC inline to the
>Walbro.

Dino i beg to differ on this if you run bigger injectors (30lbs)and aren't planning on running more than 12-13 psi then this intank is good if you don't want to hear the screaming pig (hrc inline) over your music and conversations...

The HRC inline is just a better pump

yes your HRC inline is a better pump and is needed especially if you will be running more than that boost... but for running 8-9psi with 30lbs injectors the walbro intank is just fine.....

Are there any in-tank pumps that aren't loud and can handle boost loads of over 9 psi? I have used an inline pump on an old project and it was loud as hell... I don't ever want anything like that in my car :)

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

not that i know of.... the hrc inline is really the best for higher boost... but if you want higher boost you have to sacrafice something...

run both..

>Thanks man. Your 2G is badass too... we have the same side
>skirts. Aerogear brand? Your doors have clearance problems
>with 'em? Mine do :(
>
>
>1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
>Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana
>
>


yeah i have to lift on my doors to make sure they don't scratch the shit out the paint on the side skirts... my problem is if i get the paint screwed up i either gotta repaint the whole car or come up with some painted graphics that will cover it up cause i customized the stock base color and made it a custom one.... so i can never get it to match perfect again.........

Whats the difference in price between a Vortech FMU and SFMU? I am told you don't really need the features of the SFMU in a lower boost application, but I suppose it can't hurt to plan for the future. What do you guys think?

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

>Whats the difference in price between a Vortech FMU and SFMU?
> I am told you don't really need the features of the SFMU in a
>lower boost application, but I suppose it can't hurt to plan
>for the future. What do you guys think?
>
>1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
>Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana
>
>


get the sfmu... you can change out what disc you need for better applications.... you can control you fuel to fine tune the car better.................

I am building a custom turbo application right now. Im going to be running a 14b turbo from a 1G eclipse, paired with a 1G SMIC, SFMU, Walbro 255, and all the nesessary piping and lines.

Id recommend running an intercooler. A 1G GST/GSX intercooler is more than enough to handle 5-7psi of boost. Plus, you can pick it up for cheap at a local junk yard or at dsmtrader.com. Not running an intercooler really limits you on the amount of boost you can run. Ive done some reasearch on the intercooler piping. You can get all the bends you need at www.jcwhitney.com. They arent that expensive, and all you need is a shop to weld in the BOV flange. Im going to use the 1G BOV in my turbo kit, its a good choice to go with until you break 10psi.

As for the wastegate, any wastegate on any turbo can be modified to run a certain amount of boost. Any local performance shop should be able to do it for you. If you want to do it yourself, youd going to have to experiment a little. To lower the boost the turbo runs, youre going to have to lengthen the wastegate actuator arm so that it opens earlier. Youre going to have to get some washers, and install them onto the bolt that controls the actuator arm. Then youre going to have to run your car (after the turbo is already installed) and see how much you boost. The more washers you install, the lower the boost you will run. This is a trial-and-error way of doing it, but theres really no other way. Id recommend against running an external wasteagate. Those are mostly useful at high boost applications. With what you said, it seems to me that you arent going to be running higher boost, so stick with the internal. It should suit you good until you rebuild. If you want more info on the IC piping, email me or message me. Good luck.

yeah you can get a good 1g intercooler for $50 and as for modifying the wastegate for lower boost there are 2 ways I know of and if you e-mail me I can explain them both to you and you can decide on the one you like.

Chris :thumbsup

>yeah you can get a good 1g intercooler for $50 and as for
>modifying the wastegate for lower boost there are 2 ways I
>know of and if you e-mail me I can explain them both to you
>and you can decide on the one you like.
>
>Chris :thumbsup


if you go messing with the factory pre-set specs you can end up doing damage to your car........... this is a no-no........ just leave it preset to what it is... if you wanna raise it then get a boost controller.... if you want it lowered then have it custom done at the factory.......... don't go messing with it please............ word or advice.... leave it to the manufactors...........

>I am building a custom turbo application right now. Im going
>to be running a 14b turbo from a 1G eclipse, paired with a 1G
>SMIC, SFMU, Walbro 255, and all the nesessary piping and
>lines.
>
>Id recommend running an intercooler. A 1G GST/GSX intercooler
>is more than enough to handle 5-7psi of boost. Plus, you can
>pick it up for cheap at a local junk yard or at dsmtrader.com.
>Not running an intercooler really limits you on the amount of
>boost you can run. Ive done some reasearch on the intercooler
>piping. You can get all the bends you need at
>www.jcwhitney.com. They arent that expensive, and all you need
>is a shop to weld in the BOV flange.

Im going to use the 1G
>BOV in my turbo kit, its a good choice to go with until you
>break 10psi.
>
>
:nono

and where did you get your info from............... the 1g BOV is rated at a lot more than 10psi... the stock boost on a 1gen is more than that..... and if you properly crush the 1gen it's good for 20psi before leaking.... a 1gen is good for probably 14-15 psi without crushing it......

I know the 1G BOV can handle 10psi. I think the stock 1g turbo runs at what, 12psi? My friend built up his 4g61 mirage with a 16g running 10psi at turbotrix racing and we were told that the stock 1g just wouldnt do the job fully. Crushed 1g bovs are ofcourse better and can handle a lot more boost. In my experience once you start running above 10psi its wiser to either crush the 1g or get an aftermarket.

Bro, i have a 1gen and I know jeff from TT myself and your wrong it anything over 15 psi you need to crush it. what your talking about is the 2nd gen BOV...........

That might have been it... My bad :)

What the hell does "crush" the blow-off valve mean? Also, would it be a better idea to try and buy used piping with a blow-off flange on it, and cut it to use for my own application, or just buy mandrel bent piping and have a flange welded on? Where do most people have their blow off valve flange... before or after the intercooler?

Edit: I saw somewhere on the forum what looked like a custom 420A manifold with a blow off valve flange on it... how well does that work? Since I will be buying a mani soon, sounds like perhaps a good idea if it works good.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

The flange your talking about is for an external wastegate not a blow off valve. The bov goes on the intake track not on the exhaust. The best place to mount a bov is about a foot from the throttle body. That's not to say that you can't mount it other places on the intake track; the wrx has the bov mounted to the intercooler. Crushing the bov is commonly done to the 1g dsm bov's. Basically it is put in a vice and the top part is crushed a little bit. This makes the spring stiffer so that it can hold more boost without leaking. The new apex bovs have an adjustment screw that does the same thing.

Sometimes I feel really dumb. This is one of those times. I wasn't even really thinking when I asked the question about the manifold blow off valve. I have been boggling my mind with different ideas on how to make things work right. Oh well, yeah I knew the BOV goes in the intake tract. Dont ask me why I asked about the exhaust mani.

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / More at www.dalnetcars.com
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

get the book "maximum boost" by corky(sp?) bell. Trust me , its worth it.