ok, i've decided that this spring/summer i wanna do something big with my car(97 gs m/t 48k, full cat exhaust, injen short ram, overbored tb, plugs/wires). i'm trying to decide on whether goin the turbo route or the bodykit route. approximately how much would it run me to get everything(turbo, intercooler, and all the other stuff). no extras though, just the essentials. and is spending the money worth it? cause right now, i'm just not satisfied with the power i'm packing. any help is appreciated. tia.

dave

i'm gonna rephrase my question from earlier. I know how much an actual kit would run me........is there another way to go turbo without buying a kit. i mean, can i buy a turbo off of somebody and then get the rest of the stuff piece by piece? or is that not a good way to go? and what kind of unforseen expenses should i look out for?
sorry if you guys get this question a lot....i'm just really curious cause it's something i really wanna do.

tia
dave

I'll answer from the HRC turbo side as this is the kit that I have experience with.

It determines how you define essential. Do you just want to get the car up and running with the parts that come in the kit or do you want to make a solid daily driver.

Just the kit:
HRC Stage II with a side Mount $3,409
HRC Stage II with a front mount is $400 more (I believe, check their site for exact pricing - www.hahnracecraft.com)

Upgrading the kit to make reliable:
- A/F Gauge, Boost Gauge, EGT gauge, and Triple Full Pillar Pod ($400)
- 4G63 8mm Exhaust manifold studs, nuts, and washers ($15)
- Vortech Super Fuel Management Unit with Hard Spring
(Part #7X100-050) ($307)
- NGK Spark Plugs BKR7E-11 (www.ngksparkplugs.com) ($16 - I bought 8)
(one range colder than stock - stock is BKR6E-11)
- Missing Link 003 Fuel Cut Defender (www.group5motorsport.com) ($45)
- Fire Hose (to protect the A/C hoses) ($40)
- Walbro Intank (to get rid of the noise) ($100)

Special Tools Needed for any kit:

- Wide variety of open end wrenches and a socket set.
- Variety of other hand tools (wire crimpers, wire strippers)
- Schrader Check Valve (tire valve) removal tool ($2)
- Teflon Paste ($5)
- Oil Pressure Sending Unit Socket 1 1/16" Size (can be purchased from Leslie tools - pep boys sells these) ($8)
- Lots of patience (fuel system work and fitting the intercooler piping can be tricky on your first attempt)
- Spark plug gapper ($2)


So if you want just the Stage II kit you are looking at $3,409. If you want to play it safe with all the upgrades that I have made, you are looking at around $4,300. I don't think that I went overly crazy with my setup but wanted to make a solid daily driver.


The turbo is absolutely worth it. As some people have said and I agree, it is like driving a totally different car. The car is no longer sluggish. As far as whether it will kill your motor, do a compression test and if you are around 200 lbs for each cylinder. If your numbers are close, your motor is in good shape. I've noticed that you have exactly the same mileage as me so you should be find. I tested my compression after 1,000 miles of turbo use and still had 210 for compression.


I would also suggest doing some research on how to tune the car. When running stage II boost levels, you want to make sure you are getting enough fuel to the motor. This is key to your motor's survival.


As always, leave some money aside for unexpected complications with the turbo install. There is always something you forget or don't expect.


Sorry for the long post. I tried to cover all the topics.

--Kurt

kurt, thanks for the reply.....that really answered a bunch of my questions. it was a little more expensive than i expected though....i'm gonna have to do some more research on the topic. 4k is a lot for a college student.....i have the money but that would be putting a huge dent into my bank account.
thanks again!!

I agree with all of the other parts he suggested.

As far as whether or not it's worth it, when I first took the car above 3,000 RPMs it felt as if all of the sudden the car got lighter, and the gas pedal actually felt like it was working. I shot forward and the wheels chirped hard (then again I still have shitty stock 14's). It was the coolest thing ever. I test drove a GS-T before and it didn't feel as powerful and I'm only a stage 1.

don't expect to buy the kit/parts, install it and that be it, you'll be breaking stuff too from the added stress after awhile, so keep a little $$ stashed away for an emergency

Im sure if you shop around and actually purchase used but reliable parts you can make your own turbo kit for much much cheaper than Hahn. You can basically get everything you need (fuel pump, FPR, all the lines, etc. etc. etc.) except the Turbo, Intercooler + Pipes, and the Downpipe. Shop around, check out www.dsmtrader.com people sell really cheap stuff on there. I got my 14b turbo (~50k miles, no shaft play, mint condition) with a 1G o2 housing for 100$. I went to a junkyard and almost bought a stock SMIC from a 1G AWD for 50$. A downpipe will probably cost you maybe 200$, less if you get yours modified. Intercooler piping you can basically do yourself with a little bit of time.

Thats the basics. You can start out with that, running a moderate amount of boost and run it pretty safe. Throw in another 300$ for the EGT, A/F, Boost, and Fuel Pressure gauges. Like was said before, get a compression check done. I have 61k miles and mine came out 215/215/205/215. Then when youre ready, you can get your bottom end redone as well as the gaskets and rings so your engine can handle more boost.

I did the research and found that for me, I can basically get all the parts I need to build a fully intercooled turbo kit for about 1300$. That actually includes all NEW parts, except for the turbo and the intercooler. Thats a LOT less then the Hahn kits. Buying prefab kits is probably easier because they are perfectly engineered to fit your car, but if you have the time and the will to make your own kit, you can do it for much cheaper. I always though it was impossible, but I looked into it and realized that it really isnt. In the end the choice is up to you wether you prefer speed or looks, but dont give up on the turbo just yet :)

NeoVB
1997 Eclipse GS

thanks for all the help guys!!! i think i'm gonna go for it!!! i have my spring break coming up next week and i'm gonna put in about 50 hours at work.....so that'll be 750 toward the turbo and then i'll just take a little bit out of my pay for the rest of the spring. hopefully by june i'll have more than enough cash!!!! thanks again!

I like the idea of building a custom kit.Check out my sig thingy, and you can see what I got already. All I really need now is oil lines, exhaut manifod, missing link, stock 1G BOV and intercooler. It will all coe out to be in between 1000 and 1500. Not bad, plus I won't have to replace pars like the FPR that hahn gives you.

i like what you're doing and it's relatively inexpensive. where'd you get your turbo?

this is probably a stupid question but what is the "missing link"?

Stole it from a few threads down...

Missing Link
http://www.group5motorsport.com/cgi-bin/GRPstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=SE-MissingLink

Missing Link is essentially a check valve that prevents the MAP from seeing any boost at all. its mechanical(unlike the electrical ones that come with both kits) and it goes in between the intake manifold and the MAP Sensor. looks like an aluminum wedge. and about the turbo...words can honestly not describe how big the smile on your face will be the first time you hit it. you WILL spend more money than you plan on. it WILL piss you off to a new extreme never thought possible sometimes. you WILL break at least one tranny... :-) but it WILL all be worth it everytime you smoke some poor civic or mustang/camaro. goodluck with it. you got a big ole family of boost junkies to help ya out here.

www.TeamKLR.com
1997 Silver RS
12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's

I got my turbo on ebay. It's off of a late motel thunderbird turbo, which is bigger than the earlier thunderbird turbos. 420Avenger recommended it, because it it is a nice size turbo, and everything is facing the right direction. The flange for the exhaust manifold is in the right spot, and the outlet from the compressor housing goes up, just like in the hahn and star kits. Should work out real nice, and the one i got is in real good shape.

i'm doing a custom kit too.. its sitting in the shop now actually being built.. i'm spending a lot more on my kit cause of the parts i'm getting..

i'm spending bout 4k on my kit but that is with a
1. TURBONETICS t3/t04e turbine (with different internals to produce 500 hp with a built motor)
2. TURBONETICS exhaust manifold (just for yr info.. they make the star exhaust manifolds=) )
3. TIAL external wastegate
4. 550 - 625 injectors (not sure which one were goin with yet)
5. HAHNRACECRAFT big ass FM =)
6. APEX-I or HKS afr (not sure which one i want still)
7. TURBO X'S RFL bov
8. AUTOMETER gauge cluster
9. EGT and BOOST gauge (dont know which kind yet)
10. TURBO X'S duel stage boost controller
11. turbo timer (dont have one picked out)
12. missing link
13. and of course all the steel braided lines, hoses..etc that i'll need to put it together

this cost is also including labor to replace my timing belt, water pump..tensioner pulley..etc.. (i already purchased the parts) it also includes the labor for the turbo install as well.. so all in all.. its not a bad price for everything=).. and its a awesome shop doing it so i got lucky=)..

neways..sorry this was long.. just tryin to give u an idea like everyone else what i am paying and what it includes=).. good luck on yr turbo weather u go hahn..star or custom=)..ask as many ques as u need..thats what were all here for=)

What about an FPR, and a fuel pump? Maybe I missed something in your post. Just wondering.

i already have a WALBRO 255 in tank ... and Forced Induction is installiing a fuel pressure reg. (fpr) ..but i dont know which one.. some things like the fpr i have not decided on yet=)..

Number one part for your car, turbo manifold. That's the backbone for your turbo, either buy one or make one out of your stock header. After that, turbo, some hoses, fuel system, piping and new downpipe. I'm currently going the custom turbo road, if I ever get the last of my parts from turbo performance and install the system, I'll let you know exactly how much it cost me. So far I got...
turbo manifold 300
hks ssqv bov 210
walbro 255lph 100
vortech fpr 125
turbonetics deltagate 180
Air Research T3 turbo 300
Downpipe(consists of bent piping, flex pipe, flanges and clamps) about 200
O2 sensor Bung 10
Piping 100
couplings 20
fittings 20
hoses (Vacuum, fuel, water) 50
Misc stuff (JB weld, sealant, gasket, etc.) 20
oil line kit 80
autometer gauges (boost, a/f) 120
thats all the parts I need...I think
total cost thus far...1835 (with a non-intercooled kit)
it'll be less for just the essential kit.
The fuel system is taken care of, it took me about 2 hours total. VFAQ's help alot.
READ A LOT, do your homework before you dive right into this thing. I've been researching months before I got the first turbo part.
Feel free to pm me if you got any questions.