Sup guys.
I FINALLY got a HRC Stage II turbo kit.
But the worst thing now is. I been reading about turbos and stuff, and my buddy here (with 1999 GST loaded to 320hp..etc)
He said my GS eclipse (420A Engine) CANNOT handle up to 260hp ... or not even 240hp, and if I want to put that stage II kit on my car and go up to 260hp, I have to rebuild my engine.

Now I am totally no clue... I mean, can I or I can't?
I really don't want to blow my engine, but then again, I am only running at 8PSI and up to 260HP...
Is that good for my GS car?
Will that be too much HP for my GS 420A engine?

Does anyone here has a 1995 Eclipse GS and did added a Stage II turbo and go up to 260hp (around there) with 8PSI and DOESN"T need a engine rebuild and still run great without blowing?

Thanks guys.

Your fine. Just keep to the reccomended boost levels and you will be fine. I've been beating on mine at 8psi on the star kit for over a year. DeanoD runs 10psi on the stock internals with the same kit, and I believe he has been at that level for 1 year or more. Don't listen to that turbo owners crap about your motor.

From the maybe 10+ topics started here with the same general theme, I'd say that its QUITE possible for 260hp. If I remember correctly, isn't there a post concerning the stock internals... saying that it could take up to ~300's without too much concern?

The other side of the coin is this, would a company be selling these kits if all it did was blow up the engine? (well, on second thought...) Just run the recommended, dont get boost happy, watch those temperatures, and enjoy the power. Remember, the 420a was not designed to handle boost, and it is an uphill battle (sorta), but it is HIGHLY possible.

And of course, your 4g63 friend is probably going to be no help. "Get a factory turbo!!" How many times have you heard that one?

Just for arguments sake, i'm going to say your friend does know what he's talking about. Sounds like he's just looking out for you and giving you sound advice.

You can probably run 200+ hp on stock internals if you know what you're doing. Just watch your boost levels, and keep your fuel pressure and ratios in check, etc.

I don't think your friend is wrong for telling you what he did because he's probably just telling you the safe way.

From runs at the track, and having my car driven and tuned by Mike at RRE, we agreed it's a little faster than a 210hp stock GS-T. With stock internals, you would need to tune very very carefully to even get 250hp. I doubt you could do the amount of tuning necessary to get 250hp using just the parts that come in the HRC stage 2 kit.

I suck at tuning, but I'm stage 3 and I know I'm not making 260hp yet.

I'm sure that V6 avenger thought you had over 250...:P

At 8 psi, you won't be putting down 260 hp, unless you have a very nice list of supporting mods. I ran my car a 8 psi for a year with zero problems. I ran into problems when I decided to crank it up to 12 psi because I had a rebuilt motor sitting in the garage anyway. I would agree that your friend is telling you this to be on the safe side. You "should" be fine at 8 psi as most are, but if for some reason something goes wrong (almost always a busted piston ring land), you need to be prepaired for it. If I were to put in percentage form, I'd say that with 8 psi of boost and good tuning you have a 90% chance of having no problems with it.

I dont have any problems with my Hahn stage II on the stock internals. As long as you tune carefully and IMO KEEP it on the rich side. I am running mine at 7 pounds with no problems. You can also never have enough gauges. Be sure you have an EGT and AF gauge so you know what is going on with your motor and turbo. You can find more than enough info about how to install and tune you car for maxium reliabilty with out blowing the motor or going crazy in the forum search. Good Luck.

1998 Eclipse GS,
Hahn Stage 2 Turbo Kit w/missing link
and Vortech SFMU,
Corbins Digital A/F Gage,
Apex N1 Exhaust,
NeuSpeed Short Shifter,
Autometer Boost, A/F and Exhaust Temp Gauges,

I know some guys will agree with me, and others won't, but I don't think your piston(s) and/or piston ring(s) won't last too long pushing 260HP. Tuning of the fuel system, the condition of your engine and you driving habits will be the key to engine longevity, especially on stock internals.

Eventhough it's possible to achieve that kind of horsepower on stock internals, I'd recommend planning for the worst by having/planning your finances for a rebuild. Our stock internals just couldn't handle too much boost.:-(

With my supporting mods, and running about 11 psi, i estimate my HP to have been around 260-275 HP at the crank, when i blew the motor (cracked piston). Without it being on the dyno, its really hard to say what my power was at 11 psi. HRC website says that 10 psi nets around 275 HP at the crank, mostly stock, no mods. Hell, i may have been upwards of 280 HP when it blew, dont really know. I know i gained some HP from the AFX pulley, and a bit from the 2.5" downpipe, and 3" cat back. IMO, 260HP would be a good maximum to run on stock motors. Keep your boost around 8 psi, and it will be fine for quite a bit, assuming your tuning and fuel is in good shape.

This is what happens when you have too much air and not enough fuel... I am about the 50th person that did this with a 420a:

Lets put it to you this way, One way or another, you WILL have to rebuild no matter what... Dont go buying a turbo kit unless you have some extra cash incase anything happens and always keep that there or start buying parts for rebuild

>Remember, the 420a was not designed to handle boost, and it is
>an uphill battle (sorta), but it is HIGHLY possible.

I do not agree with this...the 420A platform is an amazing piece of engineering and can handle just about as much boost as a 4G63. Our engine was built with a Hemi head designed by Lotus and a Porsche crankshaft so dont go thinking we are any worse off than the 4G63 guys. Our engine is the culmination of many great sportscars put together.

OK, so from what I have read so far.. you guys bascially saying that NO MATTER what I do, as long as I add a Turbo to my GS eclipse, I HAVE to rebuild the engine later? like 2 or 3 years the longest from now?

I mean, how bout I only do 240hp with 6PSI or 7PSI? will it last like 4 - 5 years?? or should I say, it won't blow the engine?
THanks
Gil:wary

if you turbocharge your engine, it WILL blow up sooner or later, thats a fact. the pistons/rods in the 420A were NOT designed for boosted applications, plain and simple. upgrade those, and there wont be any looking back. ive said this to EVERYONE who has asked my opinion on turboing their 420A... i would NOT do it if i didnt have about 2k to fall back on in case the motor blew. i hate seeing guys get a turbo kit, blow up the engine, then have to scrape and scrounge to sell everything they can just to get the engine running again. have backup money. shit happens sometimes, just be prepared.

www.TeamKLR.com
1997 Silver RS
12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's

>if you turbocharge your engine, it WILL blow up sooner or
>later, thats a fact. the pistons/rods in the 420A were NOT
>designed for boosted applications, plain and simple. upgrade
>those, and there wont be any looking back. ive said this to
>EVERYONE who has asked my opinion on turboing their 420A... i
>would NOT do it if i didnt have about 2k to fall back on in
>case the motor blew. i hate seeing guys get a turbo kit, blow
>up the engine, then have to scrape and scrounge to sell
>everything they can just to get the engine running again. have
>backup money. shit happens sometimes, just be prepared.
>
>www.TeamKLR.com
>1997 Silver RS
>12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
>Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
>Eagle Rods
>T3/T4 Turbo
>Custom FMIC
>Greddy Exhaust
>440's

Exactly....

beside keeping your car at a safe boost level, you need to make sure and keep up with the maintance on it. if you do it will probably go alot longer on stock internals. and make sure you upgrade your brakes. your car will accelerate alot fast so you need to be able to stop alot faster.

Ouch thats pretty bad, hows the cylinder wall look? Mine were just tiny little cracks, and probably a buncha heirline cracks.

Yeah keep it within recommended boost levels and you should be fine. I wouldn't go past 8 psi on stock internals, depending on how healthy your engine is.

I have a 95 RS with 100k and it blew at 100k after a year of boost. Well it didn't BLOW up but i cracked a piston and the all my rings wore out. I went from 5 psi to 3 psi to 8 psi, and the compression just went lower and lower, when your compression gets really low your not gonna enjoy the lag hehe. can you say clutch kick?

anyway 1 year of autox, mountain runs, hiway battles, drag races, and DRIFTING and the beast held up well, I saw it wither away slowly though so now I'm going to restore the lost power I never had.

haha your goal is 260HP? my goal is 250HP built! Good luck I don't recommend running that much on your car all the time anyway. Gonna need some injectors for that and some tuning. I say 250 cuz I want a good balanced car, I don't need it to be freakishly powerful and have mad torquesteer and stuff.

I ran mine at 6 PSI, changed the oil every 2K miles and still after 4 months she is now on the shelf to more than likely the usual blown ring land. It's not a matter of IF it wll give out but WHEN on stock internals....I had mine tuned as good as it can get also, a lil on the rich side for safety and she still let go.....SO to be on the safe side, your friend is right and you should look into doing a rebuild in the mear future and then most of your worries will be gone :)

If anyone finds it encouraging, I'm coming up on 3 yrs on stock internals. Thats 6 psi with an intercooler. At last check, I still had 205-210 compression. I've made my share of tuning mistakes, but haven't blown yet.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

"It's not a matter of if you will blow but when..."

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that comment...
There is NO reason that a wel thought out, well installed, well balanced and well tuned turbo kit canot safelly run 6-8 psi....

I think you'll find htat most people that blow their pistons weren't quitte as well tuned as they had thought.... and how many were running the cartech fmu??? And how many were running stokc injectors??? These are two of the biggest causes of blow ups... plus the tuning being advanced of course....

Just my opinion....:thumbsup

i have to disagree w/ the fact the 420a stock is as good as a 4g63 stock...no where close to as durable the the turbo guys have it...how many stock 420's do we see making 300hp to the wheels w/ a turbo kit and supporting mods?? not any that i've seen...now you put in some forged internals and your straight...the 4g63 engine is just a great engine and is made to hold a lot of hp and boost..they have much beefier pistons and rods, much larger ports , plus their ecu will retard timing in individual cyl's which we seriously need...but once you add some goodies inside the 420 i'd say its every bit as good if not better...i have plenty of turbo guys in my club that throw in injs and an afc w/ a 16g on a stock 4g63 and run 18-19 lbs of boost...we would blow the hell out of a 420 if we tried it, the internals just aren't made for it and why would they be w/ 140 crank hp?? the engines a great design, open the ports, bore .20 over and add some forged and you'll be smoking some turbos w/ that combo

yeah corbin thats because your hardcore! :thumbsup I poped my motor yesterday after only 4 months of boost! I think my motor was going anywas, my comp was 120 on all 4 before installing the turbo. time to throw in the rebuilt one.

it all depends on how hard you drive your car.... if you try and WOT everytime you put your foot on the gas then yes it won't last very long. but if you drive normal boosting i will last a lot longer.

Im always nice to my engine. its not always nice to me! :thumbsup

>it all depends on how hard you drive your car.... if you try
>and WOT everytime you put your foot on the gas then yes it
>won't last very long. but if you drive normal boosting i
>will last a lot longer.

I drive my car HARD. I've done it that way for almost 3 years and 35k miles. I've also had some short episodes of bad tuning. No blown engine here. It's also been a long time since I've used stock injectors and an HRC fuel mapper.

6,000 turbo miles for me @5psi and still going strong. My compression is 200 185 185 185 and I am tuned on the rich side. No problems! ::crosses fingers::

Don't listen to Corbin's or Jason's testamony. By the sounds of things this is your first time out, Corbin and Jason have been around the block if you know what I mean. If this is your first tuner, you picked a good one. Why do I say you picked a good one? It is cheap when you mess up. If you have been around for a while you will notice that Corbin is like our big daddy, he watches out for us and fixes us when we get booboo's. Corbin is probibly the most SAFE player when it comes to his car I have EVER seen. But it shows when he is going on 3 years and all with his stock internals, shows alot cause he was one of the pioneers of the turbo kit on the 2gnt.

Oh well, just keep it in mind, that it could happen, odds are pushing towards it blowing, so prepare yourself. Remember Murphy's Law.