sup men, getting ready to have the tranny rebuilt and i'm pretty set on a lsd ....i can't see buying a quaife when it costs more than the rebuild itself..its just stupid, theres no way that have that much into the product to sell for that...anyhow i've been looking at the phantom grip and the premise seems fairly simple...now i've heard that they can wear out and break, thats about the last thing i need to worry about...for only 250 its pretty much disposable, has anyone had any luck with them...i'm setup for stage IV right now so i expect to put down some big numbers on the dyno this summer...what i'm thinking of doing for some added security is to have john sheperd rebuild the tranny and have the gears and syncros cryo'd for some beef...the guys on the neon board seem to think the tranny can take upwards of 500+...what do you guys think...i really didn't build a auto cross car or a drag car, more of highway and street action i get into..the tranny only took me an hour and a half to drop but i dont want to keep doing it if the phantom grip cant hang w/ the power..any of you big boys using an lsd or you think i should stay away from it?thanks..:thumbsup

Just incase you didn't know about these...save you some money.

http://www.newskoolracing.com/dc.html

I don't have any personal experience with the unit, but it seems good to me.....for the price anyway. I'm going to get one this spring, but I belive JustOne on this board has one and was last running 18psi+ on his with no problems as of yet. It comes down to price factor....if you can afford the quaife, get it...no doubt. It WILL hold whatever you put to it. I figure you can't go wrong with the price of the phantom....but the quaife is for sure a better product.....I'm gonna give it a shot! Anything will be better than spinning one tire down the road up to 70mph!

Yeah the Quaife is the beast but if you are like me that is not a series racer, meaning only weekend warrior,:D, than the PG will do. I am getting mine along with the Fidanza flywheel in March. I have only heard good things about both.


http://www.cardomain.com/id/jasvbts2k2

VERY solid upgrade, I love it!

I can leave two lines when I shift down to third from 4th at 20psi and WOT on the highway. I had a guy in a 32 roadster follow me for 20 miles just to tell me that he thought "seeing a fwd car do that was the coolest thing ever". I told him I would trade if he wanted but he declined. He had no trouble keeping up w/ me.

Anyway...I think it's a great buy for the price and if you drag race only don't waste the cash on the Quaife.

hey justone did you ever get the Quaife installed??


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

i dont know if i trust the NSR one yet...if people can give me reason to trust it then ill buy it.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

Yes it’s in but I still need like 250 miles on the clutch break-in before I can really test the bitch out. So far it feels better a little better in the turns but I won’t really know until the break-in is done.

I have seen the pics of the knock off version and I couldn’t tell you if it was better or not. They should act the same in characteristics and performance (w/ equal springs). I think the PG would last longer though because it is 100% steel and the other is aluminum and steel. I personally wouldn't put that a piece of aluminum in-between my spider gears but that is just me. Let’s say the piece wore out, once you wore through the steel on top it wouldn’t be a pretty thing when it got down to the aluminum. I kind of think the engineer behind the PG would have made it out of aluminum if he could have in the first place. It's way cheaper than the steel they use.

Just my .02
Brian

It's all a budget thing, and what application your really using it for.

Of course, you'll never beat the brute strength of the Quaife unit, thats why its backed with a lifetime warrenty, they basically dare you to break the unit.

But if money is a big option(cause there is a BIG difference) and you dont get all that nasty on it, the PG isnt a bad buy. You just have to remember its a modified stock unit, so its gonna handle what the stock unit handles basically, and w/ the added stress of more traction, you cant be cranking it too high(on a TUNED engine) and expect it to do its duty.. Also you gotta remember factors like wheelhop will grenade the tranny real quick, expecially if your getting nasty w/ the boost controller.

Basically, the reason I went w/ the Quaife lsd is because if I have a fully built engine, I'm gonna treat it very very bad :thumbsup and if I would have bought a PG for ~250, and blew my tranny, then I'd be out the PG, the tranny, and then still had to buy a new tranny and the quaife to do it right again, plus the PITA labor.

I was wondering if anyone has a phantom grip they could send me or no of anyone with one that is out of there car that they could send me one or have blue prints or demntions and i would be able to make some of them for some guys/gals on the boards. Hit me up at nitro312@hotmail.com

yea,but as long as nobodys reported any problems with it yet, why not go for it.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

>yea,but as long as nobodys reported any problems with it yet,
>why not go for it.

Yeah, for MOST applications I say go for it, BUT for stage 4+ guys that pound on it, I say rethink your strat. IF you get a PG and you DO blow up the tranny, you'd be spending more $$ in the long run to end up doing the right thing(and if you're already stage 4+, you probably have the $$ to do it right)... For all others under 350+hp goals, I say go for a conversion unit cause 2 wheels are better than one :thumbsup

>yea,but as long as nobodys reported any problems with it yet,
>why not go for it.
>
>
>Jon
>
>1997 Eclipse RS
>
>14.21@101mph 10/4/02


because if you saw what super20g said, he brought up a very good point, its still all stock, if your only planning on going stage 2-3 im sure its a great option to have... but anything more then that and running 18psi daily or with stage 4+ if your spending that much money on the car you dont want to have a stock tranny that wont be able to handle the powah.

I had the PG in my car, 5000 miles later, time for tranny rebuild. The bearings on the spider gears wear very fast do to too much pressure caused by the springs inside the PG. It will start to wine when you let off the gas, then all the time. It may not happen as soon as it did for me, but it will.

Well i'm limited for the summer...I'd like to do the HRC FMIC and piping instead of the Quaife and just do a PG. Probably one big mod this summer...gotta choose :(. Plus, i gotta buy the MSD (or whatever the hot thing is by summer) and some more gauges...and get the damn injectors in.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

now you've got me worried about this...man that quaife is a lot of dough...so in a nut shell ive gathered that the pg is only made to hold up to our stock power, a sorry 115 to the wheels, and that the bearings are going to be shot anyhow...now are these bearings replaced w/ the quaife unit or can i expect to be replacing these as well w/ that unit??? man i was looking forward to the pg but i am running out of resources by now..i've got close to 7k in the car in the last 6 months w/ the rebuild and everything else...now another grand into the rebuild...Justone, how long did you boost 20 psi on the pg and why did you upgrade..piece of mind? or blown tranny? boostinvegas what kind of power were you putting to the lsd? the diff bearings, these only went due to the added stress of the lsd?? thanks guys..i wish we had a place to send our tranny like the 4g63 guys do and get all the good upgrades...double syncros, shift forks..the works..i am working on this though...the nhra driver John Sheperd is doing my rebuild after i told him about this board and the kind of business he could see from it..would be nice to double syncro 2nd and 3rd...

My PG held 350fwhp no problem...

I had the Quaife before I bought the PG. I wanted to see what the differences were. So far the Quaife feels a little better in the turns, other than that nothing different.


--Vegas--
By bearings do you mean the large washers right behind the spider gears? If so which ones wore out (large ones or small ones)? The PG only pushes on the two larger spider gears.




IMO as of now the PG is very solid. Maybe I will put it back in and run it until something happens. It seems to be unproven so maybe I will test it out more and see what comes of it. ????

All I know is I boost harder than most on this board and I like it a lot and as of today it never caused problem.

Something breaks or wears out my opinion will change, of course

Brian

thats cool...thanks for the quick reply..i think i'll have one put in...i just can't swing the extra 900 right now...plus i'd rather put that towards a fluidyne rad w/ some spal fans...anxious to hear mrvegas's info on those bearings/washers as well...

The Phantom Grip is badly designed and will invariably lead to failure of the unit. Metal on metal is not the way to lock a diff - it's lunacy. People compensate for the inadequate locking grip by using even heavier springs, which just further stresses the unit. I don't care if it works or not - there's better designed options out there for similar if not better pricing. Alternatives that include properly rated springs and the addition of a clutch materal to hold on the planetaries, which have been machined flat to take the material.

whats this, i'm interested, dino..


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

well you've got me interested...can you refer me to some sites or companies whom sell these alternatives?

intrest here...links???

well i was thinking of buying the PG for running 15psi, but now you have my interest Dino, let us know more.

Yes Dino we would like the details, the big boy's clearly want to play.... I was contemplating how I would explain the price of the Q. to my GF the other day, so other options would be welcome..

I am currently in contact with a company that is building true limited slip conversions for our stock units. We are stamping out the last of the bugs. I am currently running one of the prototype models (i didn't have much input during the build process, as i didn't know i was going to end up with it) with cut back axles (stock length was too long with this unit, will be corrected before they are made public.) and it freakin ROCKS. The wet traction and cornering are hugely improved - when wet or dry, going into a corner, i can stomp the gas and be forcibly yanked through a corner. The car is infinitely more stable under power. AND, no metal on metal lock. No overcompressed coil springs to make up for the crappy locking design. No added stress on the diff housing from trying to hold the thing together under the 1000psi spring pressures with a slipping metal on metal hold.

This same company is also working on fully adjustable lower control arms for camber correction. No more offset bushings!

I'll have more info soon. I am trying to get my contact with this company to come here and post info for all of you who are interested.

Also, if anyone has (cough*JustOne*cough) a stock axle (dead or alive, just need the splined end and axle cup), i could use it. Same for a stock diff, preferably alive.

if anyone is interested in sending these things to Carlton, i can give you an email address privately.

I had a guy I know build an alternative to the poorly designed PG for Kyle to use actually, but he traded in his car so we ending up getting it in Dino's tranny, the design I beleive is sound, but still needs some work, doesn't sound like a bad first attempt though from what Carl(the builder) and Dino say, other than axle length wants taken into account very well and leaks tranny fluid :-( If people are actually interested, maby I could have him work on a little better design to fix this problem. He has just opened his business making conversions for a lot of other cars, you might have seen him in some grassroots magazines lately. Price point will be similar to the PG, and he doesnt have core's yet to cutdown on downtime, but I have 3-4 diffs laying around to get him started on. Dino will probably drop back by here to share his comments on the matter, I really havent got a chance to talk to him much about it since he finally got it.

Well guy's you have my intrest, one question though...Will we have to get the axles shortend for the final product?, or will it work with the stockers? I am intrested though. I will have the engine out in a few weeks so hopefully they will have one ready by then.

oh, dino, i got a hardon (not really). You gotta get these things (wahtever they are) done by spring. :) :) :)..i will give anything for cheap LSD that works!!! Is there a writeup, explanation anywhere that describes it in detail?



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

Hell i'd be happy if we can get them by the Shootout! Keep us updated

dino what kind of time are we looking at...sucks that i'm needing it real soon...is this something i could get my hands on in the next two weeks..name your price sir, i'm interested

Carl is a real good guy, i met him a few years ago when i was selling a NOS setup, older gentleman, been around the racing scene forever, but is new to imports as he is used to his older cars he gets nasty drifting around.

You can count on him taking awhile though, unless he's got a fire under his butt recently, it took me 6 months to coherce him into just giving us a shot(for our stock diff), then another 8 months or so to do the work and get it back to us to test.

And thank Dino for the testing, and Kyle for the stock diff for the prototype.... I already had a Quaife installed a few weeks before I met him way back when, so I really didnt wanna pull my tranny back apart for testing and then back apart.. Keep a fire under him Dino, sounds like finally people are interested.

Perhaps I am going against the current here but this sounds too me like a long term deal and no real prices yet. And I'd want to give it some time for R&D. The PG seems to have worked for many and I need something soon. So unless I am convinced of it I am going this route.


http://www.cardomain.com/id/jasvbts2k2

I don't have any immediate plans to go limited slip, definately in the future but not the immediate one. This new unit sounds very promising. Please keep us posted about it.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

this new alternative sounds great. But to the orginal post i also have the PG and i really like it. When i was turbo'd running a way untuned 7 psi i could pull e-brake and sit there burn both wheels until i got bored.

I'm NA right now but it still is very solid(although i can't burn them worth shit). But i don't know what side effects will be in time.

>Metal on metal is not the way to lock
>a diff - it's lunacy. People compensate for the inadequate
>locking grip by using even heavier springs, which just further
>stresses the unit. I don't care if it works or not - there's
>better designed options out there for similar if not better
>pricing. Alternatives that include properly rated springs and
>the addition of a clutch materal to hold on the planetaries,
>which have been machined flat to take the material.


I couldn't disagree more. I have researched this to extreme measures. Have you ever opened up the case on yout NV Trans? Metal on metal is how your trans operates, thats what Manual trans fluid is for. I designed this SID with input from New Venture and got alot of positive response from them. My units use steel similiar to the same steel that your trans components are made of. As far as using heavier springs placing stress on the unit goes....this is how the unit works. The more "stress" you place on the unit the less slip you will incur. That is the entire technology behind the unit. As far as these type of units "destroying your trans", i have customers running high boost levels in several different vehicles with zero failuers.....

it is not a risk i would be willing to take. Your SID is not a PG, but any other input you may have is welcome.

As far as metal on metal and that's how it works, metal to metal contact on gear teeth that are designed for that contact is one thing. Metal to metal frictional contact on a gear face where it was not designed for it is another entirely. I am not saying it does not work, i am simply saying that there are better, safer, more efficient alternatives in the works for similar if not better pricing than the PG. The designer isn't going to be willing to compete with your SID as far as price goes, so you don't have that to worry about.

..and yes, i have been inside the NV-T350 on many occasions, for what it is worth.

For what it is worth, I love my Quaife and think that a lsd must be one of the most improtant mods for any fwd car concerned with performance. With that in mind I completely justify the cost of the Quaife as I wanted the best option available. There is a very discernable difference when driving an open diff and lsd fwd car.

>I
>am not saying it does not work, i am simply saying that there
>are better, safer, more efficient alternatives in the works
>for similar if not better pricing than the PG.

I appreciate your comments, but disagree with this statement. I believe my units are safe, and efficient. How more efficient can you get than direct pressure? As fas as "Better" goes, we will see i guess....

ok..no screwing around, i'm getting the quaife...at the power i'll be making i should consider nothing else...its more of a safety net than anything...wheres the cheapest place to get it?? i have a place in michigan that i can get it through w/ my vendors acct. for 1023 my cost..anyone know of a cheaper place than that???

bump....need to get soon...done some searching but 1200+ is all i come up w/ ...thanks..

That's the cheapest i've seen, but i'm going to hold off, i DO need something by July though. This is what i'm saving for now :



mm....


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

>I appreciate your comments, but disagree with this statement.
>I believe my units are safe, and efficient. How more
>efficient can you get than direct pressure? As fas as
>"Better" goes, we will see i guess....


Bryanacr,

So what kind of warranty do you give on these units? I don't see any information posted on your web site regarding warranty. I am very interested in this unit. One more question. What exactlly is the unit made of? Is it a mixed aloy?

arrghhh I want LSD now how does that NSR thingy do around the corners, that's mainly what I use my car for. I got the engine out so I might as well go all the way haha not quaife all the way though.

that unit Dino is testing out looks great too, if it can make it public b4 I get done with my car I'll definately go for it. Can you say group buy? I know I can trust Dino to get products out :)

i would be interested as well..i'm kind of leaning towards the quaife b/c its more than durable, they warranty even when racing and its proven...plus its a true lsd whereas the pg is only an insert...works pretty much the same but then again it doesn't...if i knew that the pg wasn't going to blow up and take my tranny out i would probably lean towards that b/c of the price...huge diff there...i have posted on dsm talk about it and there are some guys putting down huge numbers w/ the quaife plus most of the stage 4 guys on here are using it..rumor is that the pg will only hold 350 hp w/ the upgraded springs...now i don't think i'll be doing that much daily but its nice to have the piece of mind that if i was the quaife will hold this and more...i guess you get what you pay for ww/ that...at 1200 its not a cheap mod at all..could have a freakin fp green for that...

got any more info dino??


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

dino is there a way you can post some info on this...i am interested and in desperate need...i am about to spend a grand on the quaife in the next two days...email me, pm me..post here..would like to know whats up w/ this ....thanks

ahh yes but I've only heard good things about the PG as well, for its price its well worth it and such. But I guess if you going for insane horsepower number the qaife would be a better investment for you.

Umm so does continually spinning the tires while going sideways mess up a differential? haha cuz I can spin them pretty easily while drifting :P