The car is a 1998 GS, with a Star stage 2 kit. we rebuilt his engine a couple months ago with 8.5:1 Wiseco Pistons and Eagle Rods. Ever since then, his fuel setup has been Accel 30lb injectors, Vortech FMU(with 8:1 disk/ring) Walbro Hi-Press, and a SAFC. he has been running 10-12psi of boost on this setup for a good while, and now, of course, he wants more POWA! he has purchased the 415cc injectors from HRC, and a SFMU. his goal is 15psi, and maybe a little more with race gas. his ignition system is stock, by the way. i just talked to 96Avenger, who is friends with Armond, and he suggested doing like him and Armond, keeping the ignition system stock, and running 15psi of idle fuel pressure, only using the SAFC to richen up certain parts of the fuel curve. this plays into our customers hands well, cause he doesnt have the extra $$$ right now for an expensive MSD Ignition. ive made it by with my setup by retarding timing with my Crane ignition, but he doesnt have this luxury just yet. with the 415cc injectors and SFMU, what disk/ring combo in the SFMU would seem most logical for his setup/goals? ive mentioned to him the new programmable MSD ignition that allows boost-related timing retard, but he doesnt have a spare 400-500 bucks laying around right now. he also doesnt have the money for the E-manage setup. which can get pretty expensive. any ideas/suggestions guys? i appreciate your time and help.



www.TeamKLR.com
1997 Silver RS
12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's

sell safc and get a EIC

like corbin uses he could run any amount of fuel for the most part with that setup there is a group buy right now for the EIC if u jump on it...

Does the EIC control injectors if they are the only injectors the car uses? like instead of the ECU controlling them? he already has all this stuff, and most likely wants to keep it and noth ave to buy anything else.

www.TeamKLR.com
1997 Silver RS
12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's

This should explain any of your questions: http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/8inj.html

Here is my suggestion. Its the cheapest way out of it, and it will work good, assuming you can run that low of idle fuel pressure:

SFMU with either the 2.72" disk, or the 3.64" disk. Not sure exactly
which one you will need, but put in the largest one, and use the
optional bleed valve to fine tune and lean out with whichever disk
you use. I'm thinking you will be close to needed inbetween the 2.72
and the 3.64 disk. Start off with the largest, and use the bleed
valve to lean it out since you will prob be pretty rich. Set idle
to 15-18 psi of fuel. With those injectors, he should be good for at least 15, maybe* 20 psi max. Dont use the SAFC if he does not have
any ignition retard device, as it will advance timing. We really
dont need it, our ECU will correct as much as it can, and by runnng
lower fuel pressures your fuel trims can be decent. Be sure to data
log the fuel setup when tuning for sure.

I'm not sure of what disks give you what rising rate...but I would try using a 3:1 rising rate and run the static pressure real low - like somewhere between 15-25psi.

I put together a spreadsheet to figure this kind of stuff out - http://www.users.fast.net/~metaljim/garage/TurboCalc.xls
There are 2 worksheets on it. The first spredsheet is for compressor flow - ignore it. The second worksheet is for Injector Sizing. Take a look at it. The top section(above the oarnge line) is for size requirement calculator(again disregard this section). The bottom section has 2 simulations on it. Take a look at the simulations. I set both to use a 3:1 riser. The top simulation has the static idle set to 15 and the bottom simulation set to 25. It might help you to play around with it a bit - all of the input fields are blue. If it's not blue - its either a label or an output field.

EDIT: And yeah - the 034 can run the stock injectors - but only if they are on a secondary rail. It's a boost sensitive fuel adder. It does not have an o2 monitor like the stock ECU.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

Xtreme, is the bleed valve the thing you can get from HRC? exactly what does that do, bleed off vaccum? he will most likely go with the SFMU, 415cc, and about 17psi of idle FP setup. i dont know much aboutthe SFMU and its disk/ring combos and the whole bleed valve thing, so any light shed would be helpful. im thinking of tossing the "custom" FMU i have now in favor of the SFMU for more consistent performance, so all info is appreciated.

www.TeamKLR.com
1997 Silver RS
12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's

>Xtreme, is the bleed valve the thing you can get from HRC?
>exactly what does that do, bleed off vaccum? he will most
>likely go with the SFMU, 415cc, and about 17psi of idle FP
>setup. i dont know much aboutthe SFMU and its disk/ring combos
>and the whole bleed valve thing, so any light shed would be
>helpful. im thinking of tossing the "custom" FMU i have now in
>favor of the SFMU for more consistent performance, so all info
>is appreciated.

The bleed valve is a device that screws into the SFMU lid top. It goes into the bleed port. It is the same exact valve that HRC uses on the Cartach FPR. Basically it bleeds off boost pressure that the SFMU sees under boost, to make the SFMU lower the boosted fuel pressure, without having to change to a lower disk, and more importantly, fine tune your boosted fuel pressure. So if you run too rich with the largest disk in, you can turn the bleed valve out a turn or two, and that will lower your boosted fuel pressure. You can get the bleed valve from HRC or Vortech direct, but i do believe its cheaper from HRC. Be sure to get the little vacum check valve that is supposed to be used in conjunction with the bleed valve, just like the HRC kit. This check vlave goes onto the barb that comes out of the bleed valve. This barb is where the bled off pressure is coming out of, so you need to put the check valve on the end of a vac line that goes onto this barb. This is so that you dont leak any vacum into the SFMU through the bleed vavle under engine vacum. If you dont use the check valve, then it will mess around with your fuel pressures under vacum, mostly it will not let you lower the pressure as much for idle (if air is leaking into the SFMU, then it sees less vacum, and hence more fuel pressure). As a side note, the largest disk (3.64") does not need a ring. And the 2.72" disk, the ring that goes around that disk is a bit larger than the disk itself, so dont be alarmed if you see a 1/4" gap on all sides. Use the short dark spring inside the SFMU also.

Jim- What is the "Tested flow rate" on the bottom equation for? Is that flow in lbs/hr? I've never had my injectors flowbenched, would they typically tend to run higher or lower than rated when new?

FWIW, my car ran using a Cartech billet FPR without CEL or SAFC on 2psi fuel pressure w/ 441cc injectors.

Verified this with 2 diff. mechanical fuel pressure gauges.

It ran like crap, but it drove around and stuff.

Thanks for the info Xtreme. you know your shyat about the SFMU, thats for sure. You ever considered making a short writeup on hooking it up and how to tune it with the different disks/rings/springs? i bet it would be real helpful, and i dont think anyone would be more qualified t odo it than you! so, in your opinion, he should purchase the bleed valve and check valve from HRC, and run the 3.64" disk first, and if we are too rich in boost, turn out on the bleed valve and it will lower the boosted FP? thanks a lot man.

www.TeamKLR.com
1997 Silver RS
12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's

>Thanks for the info Xtreme. you know your shyat about the
>SFMU, thats for sure. You ever considered making a short
>writeup on hooking it up and how to tune it with the different
>disks/rings/springs? i bet it would be real helpful, and i
>dont think anyone would be more qualified t odo it than you!
>so, in your opinion, he should purchase the bleed valve and
>check valve from HRC, and run the 3.64" disk first, and if we
>are too rich in boost, turn out on the bleed valve and it will
>lower the boosted FP? thanks a lot man.


Yep start out that way. If anything you will be rich, so depending on how rich it is, you can turn out the bleed valve a turn or two, then re-test. If its still way too rich, you may want to put in the 2.72" disk/ring. To run a good 15 psi on those injectors, i'm thinking you will end up using the 3.64" disk with several turns out on the bleed valve. Of course, this is just a good guess. The actual rise rate may be closer to the 2.72" disk's rise rate, using the bleed valve, but its always nice to have additional fuel available if you use the 3.64" disk.

>Jim- What is the "Tested flow rate" on the bottom equation
>for? Is that flow in lbs/hr? I've never had my injectors
>flowbenched, would they typically tend to run higher or lower
>than rated when new?

It's the fuel pressure in psi that the injector is tested at. Usually injectors are tested at 43.5psi, so when you're talking about 235cc injectors - it inherently means 235cc at 43.5psi. That field is there to allow manipulation of the pressure field. Lets say you get your injectors cleaned and the shop uses 50psi to test the flow. You could put the tested flow rate(in cc) in the "injector size" field and put 50 in "tested flow rate". If you're using the manufacturers rating - just leave the field at 43.5.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html