new member on asog is claiming so..
http://bbs.asog.net/viewtopic.php?t=35137

info and dyno chart at:
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=235177&page=1

i must say, that is impressive, he says that he has 4000 in the motor alone, minus the hrc kit, i wondor what that could be......

Dwayne H
A.K.A D-low
"PAID THE COST TO BE THE BOSS"

Exterior mods:
11 peice Kaminari wide body kit* custom fiber glass hood, PHAT* supra taillights* targa top* black/blue/chrome projectors* supra double stack wing w/ Carbon fiber top deck* shaved all body lines, shaved antennas.*
Suspension: Blowjax air cylinders* 3/8 inch electric valves* 1/2 inch lines* 5gallon air tank* 2 accumlators* strut bars
Rollers and stopies: 19x8 ACE menaces, chrome 225/19/35 front 275/19/35 rear AEM big brake upgrade (front Electronics (ALL): Msd ignit.
Apexi AFC *Apexi AVC-r*Apexi Rev/speed*Greddy TT*Automete A/F* Autometer Boost* Autometer volt* Autometer Fuel presure* Autometer water temp* Autometer egt*Autometer Oil presure*Autometer cluster bezel*Autometer triple pillar pod*Playstaion 2 fiberglassed in were passenger air bag used to be 7inch wide screen LCD*4 5 inch PB speakers ( 2 per door)*2 6x9 Pb speakers*
1 15inch PB extream sub* 1 1500 us amp* the whole dash, door sills,console, panes etc, is fiberglassed. the apexi components are molded in to the dash so you only can see the face (flushed)
Brand new Hrc manifold *Brand new Hrc 16g Turbo *Turboxs RFL BOV* Custom DOwn pipe 3inch 2 N1 Apexi Canisters*( the real deal, not that Ebay bullshit)race cat *
i need a good front mount intercooler, and some bodys stage 2 piping that they dont need or i will have to get it customized J.E pistons* Eagle specialty rods*5angle port and polish cam gears crane turbo cams bore TBbore intake manny maybe some High performance valves.Underdrive pullysstage 4 clutch kit*8lb flywheel*walbro 255 490cc injectors ,chasis: 8 point rollcage with removable door bar. reinforces the roof, due to the targa top

170 more HP from 8 psi of boost?

That's 21.25 HP per pound!

I just don't see it. However, I must say that the dyno chart looks very much like a 420a's on a 16g turbo. It just looks a lot like one that has 15-16 psi versus 8.

Honestly I don't see his car making 290whp at only 8psi on a S16G. I do not doubt his quarter mile time, 13.88 is very possible with 8psi of boost. If he very well indeed made 290whp, his boost gauge must have been off. There are very few 420A's that are making close to or over 300whp. All of these cars are pushing over 15psi, with more mods than his car. With those 310cc injectors, he wouldn't be able to run more than 12-14psi of boost.....and with his other mods I don't see 290whp coming from that amount of boost, let alone 8psi. Well, thats just my .02cents on this deal....he does have a nice ride though :)

ok, i was gonna buy the whole freak thing, BUT now he claims hes making so much power b/c hes running 105psi of fp on 310 injectors at 8psi and getting ~11.5:1 a/f (????)

he also claims that theres an increase in power at 8psi when you go from running 105psi on stock injectors to running the SAME 105psi on 310's :rolleyes:

if he's running 11.5:1 a/f at 105psi of fuel pressure on 310s, its pretty obvious hes not running only 8 psi

Isn't the generally accepted rule that you (approximately) double your hp when you double the pressure in the cylinder? For example, atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi then run 14.7psi boost and you get 280 hp (140*2) at the crank. No way he's getting 290 hp at the wheels from 8psi boost. Sorry. Not w/ a 420a.

Things that make you go hmmmmm? I don't know about the whp at only 8 psi though.

with that fuel pressure and those injectors...290whp or crank at that matter is impossible. no if ands or butts. i dont even hit 105 psi w/my 310 injectors at 13 psi...actually if i hit 105 fuel psi @ 13 psi of boost the car would fall on its face and die(way too rich no matter what his set up is unless he has a huge load of "nos".)this kid just wants attention...he most likely drives his sisters mirage around and thinks he has an eclipse.
http://www.walmartphotocenter.com/photo/album/album_photo.asp?image=13839263

More fuel for the fire:

http://bbs.asog.net/viewtopic.php?t=35247

>he also claims that theres an increase in power at 8psi when
>you go from running 105psi on stock injectors to running the
>SAME 105psi on 310's :rolleyes:

Um... yeah... actually you *would* have an increased flow of gasoline through a larger injector. More fuel volume from the injector per minute directly equals more power, as long as you have the air to go along with it.

I say his boost gauge is broken. Mine (HRC/Autometer) was... it said 3psi when I was really at 8psi.

No he said the same pressure through both. If you run 105psi on stock injectors and it is tuned pretty good then you run the same pressure w/ the 30#'s then you'd have WAY too much fuel which equals LESS power. If more fuel made more power w/ the 315's then he'd have to have been rediculously lean w/ the stockers at the same pressure.

*edit* ok you edited while I was posting and added the "more air" part ;) But w/ everything the same but injectors then you have the same amount of air. So putting in the bigger injectors at the same psi would hurt power.

>>he also claims that theres an increase in power at 8psi when
>>you go from running 105psi on stock injectors to running the
>>SAME 105psi on 310's :rolleyes:
>
>Um... yeah... actually you *would* have an increased flow of
>gasoline through a larger injector. More fuel volume from
>the injector per minute directly equals more power, as long
>as you have the air to go along with it.
>
>I say his boost gauge is broken. Mine (HRC/Autometer)
>was... it said 3psi when I was really at 8psi.


no no no. you misread that...

of course theres more fuel, thats common sense

but the AIR part didnt change! hes running the same 8 psi in both cases... same amount of air, and adding a lot more fuel.

more fuel = less power....

bullshit.




Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 4 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT / A'PEXi Super AFC

hes claiming 4000 in the motor alone guys, thats way more than just a built bottom end......... maybe he has some tricks in the motor, sure u could with 4000, maybe hes talking out his ass, who knows.......

Dwayne H
A.K.A D-low
"PAID THE COST TO BE THE BOSS"

Exterior mods:
11 peice Kaminari wide body kit* custom fiber glass hood, PHAT* supra taillights* targa top* black/blue/chrome projectors* supra double stack wing w/ Carbon fiber top deck* shaved all body lines, shaved antennas.*
Suspension: Blowjax air cylinders* 3/8 inch electric valves* 1/2 inch lines* 5gallon air tank* 2 accumlators* strut bars
Rollers and stopies: 19x8 ACE menaces, chrome 225/19/35 front 275/19/35 rear AEM big brake upgrade (front Electronics (ALL): Msd ignit.
Apexi AFC *Apexi AVC-r*Apexi Rev/speed*Greddy TT*Automete A/F* Autometer Boost* Autometer volt* Autometer Fuel presure* Autometer water temp* Autometer egt*Autometer Oil presure*Autometer cluster bezel*Autometer triple pillar pod*Playstaion 2 fiberglassed in were passenger air bag used to be 7inch wide screen LCD*4 5 inch PB speakers ( 2 per door)*2 6x9 Pb speakers*
1 15inch PB extream sub* 1 1500 us amp* the whole dash, door sills,console, panes etc, is fiberglassed. the apexi components are molded in to the dash so you only can see the face (flushed)
Brand new Hrc manifold *Brand new Hrc 16g Turbo *Turboxs RFL BOV* Custom DOwn pipe 3inch 2 N1 Apexi Canisters*( the real deal, not that Ebay bullshit)race cat *
i need a good front mount intercooler, and some bodys stage 2 piping that they dont need or i will have to get it customized J.E pistons* Eagle specialty rods*5angle port and polish cam gears crane turbo cams bore TBbore intake manny maybe some High performance valves.Underdrive pullysstage 4 clutch kit*8lb flywheel*walbro 255 490cc injectors ,chasis: 8 point rollcage with removable door bar. reinforces the roof, due to the targa top

as far s i know there really isnt anything you can do to the motor that would make it that fast without the turbo and related mods to back it up. hell, ITBs, a better bottom end, a better fuel system would be the best you could do (in general) to be all motor. i cant imagine paying 4k for a motor, unless its really special, and in that case he should have more money put into supporting mods than he has. hmmmm....who knows?????

maybe his motor is high compression??? i didnt check any link... but im hopin w/all my nt mods once i throw on a turbo kit will net me some better than average #s.. if not, ima be pissed ;-)

but 280 or 290 whp on 8psi is rediculous imo... unless he has higher comp......

More fuel DOES equal LESS power if you dont turn the boost up!! whats BS about that? if you are running 7psi on stock injectors, and you A/F ratio hits,say,.94 at 95psi.... then you put in 30lb injectors, and keep the SAME fuel pressure and boost level, your motor will be drowned with extra fuel from the bigger hole in the bigger injectors. only way it would increase HP is if the smaller injector didnt provide enough fuel at that psi, causing the motor to run so LEAN that it lost power(sut out), but i doubt thats the case, he just seems like he doesnt know what hes talking about. ill believe 290whp at 8psi when his ass lines up and smokes me.



www.TeamKLR.com
1997 Silver RS
12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
Eagle Rods
Started as a manufactured turbo kit, now its a custom one!
Vortech FMU
Greddy Exhaust
440cc Injectors

Waiting on the EVOlution!

Hmmm, I went back to read the posts on the ASOG, just to see what his engine was built with, and it does say 8.8:1 pistons. The dyno run does justify the 13.88 run on street tires, but with the amount of mods that's been done, it doesn't explain how 291 whp was achieved from just 8 psi of boost with 8.8:1 compression. The Super 16G is capable of putting down 400hp, but that's running about 20+ psi of boost.

Let me just say that I always give credit when credit is due, but the 8 psi part really has me thinking. Even if the car was tuned perfectly, how could an 8.8:1 compression engine put down 291 whp at 8 psi? Am I missing something here? I can believe it if it were an 11:1 compression or something like that.

But, if nothing has been left out from the list of mods, then I must say--AWESOME. That means that I've got a lot of learning to do :D

fyi, you can do alot of tricks with 4000 to the motor alone, think about, lots of porting, cams, ignition, fuel, basically a shit load. im not doubting you can extract 180-200 + hp with 4000 in mods to the motor itself. then add 8psi's,i think its possible, but thats leaning more toward strictly drag racing a car, which brings me to the conclusion why 4000 in the motor of a avenger. just something to think about, keep in mine that hrc was asking 6000 for there built motor out that chicks neon, that ran high 9s. and 8000 for the turbo and fuel system, so it can be done. but im not agreeing with the numbers this guy is spitting, doesnt seem likely, i dunno, just my .02 cent

Dwayne H
A.K.A D-low
"PAID THE COST TO BE THE BOSS"

Exterior mods:
11 peice Kaminari wide body kit* custom fiber glass hood, PHAT* supra taillights* targa top* black/blue/chrome projectors* supra double stack wing w/ Carbon fiber top deck* shaved all body lines, shaved antennas.*
Suspension: Blowjax air cylinders* 3/8 inch electric valves* 1/2 inch lines* 5gallon air tank* 2 accumlators* strut bars
Rollers and stopies: 19x8 ACE menaces, chrome 225/19/35 front 275/19/35 rear AEM big brake upgrade (front Electronics (ALL): Msd ignit.
Apexi AFC *Apexi AVC-r*Apexi Rev/speed*Greddy TT*Automete A/F* Autometer Boost* Autometer volt* Autometer Fuel presure* Autometer water temp* Autometer egt*Autometer Oil presure*Autometer cluster bezel*Autometer triple pillar pod*Playstaion 2 fiberglassed in were passenger air bag used to be 7inch wide screen LCD*4 5 inch PB speakers ( 2 per door)*2 6x9 Pb speakers*
1 15inch PB extream sub* 1 1500 us amp* the whole dash, door sills,console, panes etc, is fiberglassed. the apexi components are molded in to the dash so you only can see the face (flushed)
Brand new Hrc manifold *Brand new Hrc 16g Turbo *Turboxs RFL BOV* Custom DOwn pipe 3inch 2 N1 Apexi Canisters*( the real deal, not that Ebay bullshit)race cat *
i need a good front mount intercooler, and some bodys stage 2 piping that they dont need or i will have to get it customized J.E pistons* Eagle specialty rods*5angle port and polish cam gears crane turbo cams bore TBbore intake manny maybe some High performance valves.Underdrive pullysstage 4 clutch kit*8lb flywheel*walbro 255 490cc injectors ,chasis: 8 point rollcage with removable door bar. reinforces the roof, due to the targa top

>>>im not doubting you can extract 180-200 + hp with 4000 in mods to the motor itself. then add 8psi's<<<

Yeah riiiight. There is no way you are going to get anywhere remotely close to a 180-200 HP w/ just engine work on a 2.0L motor. $4000 isn't that much when you think about it.

if u read the page, thats without labor, WITHOUT LABOR, 4000 will go a ways without labor...
Dwayne H
A.K.A D-low
"PAID THE COST TO BE THE BOSS"

Exterior mods:
11 peice Kaminari wide body kit* custom fiber glass hood, PHAT* supra taillights* targa top* black/blue/chrome projectors* supra double stack wing w/ Carbon fiber top deck* shaved all body lines, shaved antennas.*
Suspension: Blowjax air cylinders* 3/8 inch electric valves* 1/2 inch lines* 5gallon air tank* 2 accumlators* strut bars
Rollers and stopies: 19x8 ACE menaces, chrome 225/19/35 front 275/19/35 rear AEM big brake upgrade (front Electronics (ALL): Msd ignit.
Apexi AFC *Apexi AVC-r*Apexi Rev/speed*Greddy TT*Automete A/F* Autometer Boost* Autometer volt* Autometer Fuel presure* Autometer water temp* Autometer egt*Autometer Oil presure*Autometer cluster bezel*Autometer triple pillar pod*Playstaion 2 fiberglassed in were passenger air bag used to be 7inch wide screen LCD*4 5 inch PB speakers ( 2 per door)*2 6x9 Pb speakers*
1 15inch PB extream sub* 1 1500 us amp* the whole dash, door sills,console, panes etc, is fiberglassed. the apexi components are molded in to the dash so you only can see the face (flushed)
Brand new Hrc manifold *Brand new Hrc 16g Turbo *Turboxs RFL BOV* Custom DOwn pipe 3inch 2 N1 Apexi Canisters*( the real deal, not that Ebay bullshit)race cat *
i need a good front mount intercooler, and some bodys stage 2 piping that they dont need or i will have to get it customized J.E pistons* Eagle specialty rods*5angle port and polish cam gears crane turbo cams bore TBbore intake manny maybe some High performance valves.Underdrive pullysstage 4 clutch kit*8lb flywheel*walbro 255 490cc injectors ,chasis: 8 point rollcage with removable door bar. reinforces the roof, due to the targa top

Point comes down to that if he very well did dyno 290whp, he didn't do it with 8psi.......unless he is lying about his mods.....NO WAY!!

The pictures are very discreet and nice, he obviously has a lot of shit done, and knows what's going on, he rebuilt his engine and everything. But what gets me is WHY he won't give accurate boost estimates.

You know, maybe he had an 8psi internal WG and his vacuum hoses came off, thus creating overboost.....

Dammit, don't flame me, i'm tryin to come up with ideas :) :) :)




Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 4 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT / A'PEXi Super AFC

Guys, you missed something VERY big... He claimed the dyno chart was from when he was still on a STOCK motor! only mods he'll own up to are the 310injectors and 3" exhuast...

he claims its all in the tuning :rolleyes:

>>>if u read the page, thats without labor, WITHOUT LABOR, 4000 will go a ways without labor...<<<

Hey my bad on that one. When I first read that I thought it said 180HP EXTRA when it actually said EXTRACT.

Come on guys...
Read the post: http://bbs.asog.net/viewtopic.php?t=35247&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

He is a bullshitter, there is just no way. He cant even add up fuel right. By the way he is runnin 8.8:1 compression.
I've been in the Bullshit Business a long time, and this guys REAKS of it!
Nick
97RS

<sniff sniff>



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 4 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT / A'PEXi Super AFC

Anybody wanna try to get Bill Hahn to solve this for us? If Bill vouches for this guy, then i've got no problem with it. :P

Suppose he's done the stroker kit, port/polish head, cams, cam gears, perfect tuning and boosting 8psi of boost. This still doesn't justify the 290 whp at only 8psi! I think that about 40-50 hp could be achieved from a FULLY built head, but add that to an 8.8:1 compression bottom end, and then add 8psi boost and tuning = 290 whp?? I don't know.

A local DSMer has a 96 GSX with a fully built head, 18G, ignition, exhaust, and just about every supporting mods and tuned, and he's putting down about 345 whp; and this is a car that runs low 12's!!!

Did you guys miss the part where he said on 108 octane gas instead of pump gas

>Did you guys miss the part where he said on 108 octane gas
>instead of pump gas


which would mean he would need even less fuel.

what gas he used is irrelevant.

105psi of fuel pressure thru 310 injectors is nearly twice what you would need to run 8psi on a s16g on a 420a.

However, that is about right for running 15-17psi w/ the s16g, and his dyno numbers look like a 15-17psi 420a pull.

>Did you guys miss the part where he said on 108 octane gas
>instead of pump gas

All higher octane gas does is prevent knock. It doesn't create anymore horsepower then a car can physically make on it's own.

>All higher octane gas does is prevent knock. It doesn't
>create anymore horsepower then a car can physically make on
>it's own.

Yes it does reduce the risk of knock/detonation. The added power would come in by being able to advance timing. But still, not enought to obtain the power levels he's claiming. I still vote for a broken boost gauge....

EDFDC OWNZ

Will Werk for Mods

1995 RS

Current Mods:
Cracked Front Bumper
K&N Intake
Flowmaster Muffler
Platinum +4 Plugs
MSD SuperConductor Wires
and one heavy Right Foot!!!!

**Badgers??? We don't need no stinkin' badgers!!!**

**No Shirt, No Shoes, No Dice!**

yep, i get around 65-70 psi of fuel for 8 psi boost on the 310's... its BS i say..

I think his boost gauge must be broke.

EDFDC OWNZ

Will Werk for Mods

1995 RS

Current Mods:
Cracked Front Bumper
K&N Intake
Flowmaster Muffler
Platinum +4 Plugs
MSD SuperConductor Wires
and one heavy Right Foot!!!!

**Badgers??? We don't need no stinkin' badgers!!!**

**No Shirt, No Shoes, No Dice!**

Hahahah, our thread is longer than ASOG's :)

Since ppl don't seem to be reading that thread, Imma crosspost:

______________

All his numbers seem to add up just fine, except for the assumption he's running 8psi and not 16+psi... If my gauge was 66% off, there's no reason his isn't 50%+ off.

So... I say congrats Paul, those are great numbers... just replace your boost gauge! And beware of running 16psi man... no reason to blow up not knowing you're really at 32psi boost hehe.

>Hahahah, our thread is longer than ASOG's :)
>
>Since ppl don't seem to be reading that thread, Imma
>crosspost:
>
>______________
>
>All his numbers seem to add up just fine, except for the
>assumption he's running 8psi and not 16+psi... If my
> gauge was 66% off, there's no reason his isn't
>50%+ off.
>
>So... I say congrats Paul, those are great numbers... just
>replace your boost gauge! And beware of running 16psi man...
>no reason to blow up not knowing you're really at 32psi
>boost hehe.


ASOG had 2 posts ;) the first one ended sooner, but they both had 2 pages (menaing each one had at least 30 replies)

regardless, Paul hasnt been back since