Ok, here's the deal. Last weekend at the track we had our local DSM shootout. I've been prepping the car for 2 weeks to get ready. I dump in $30 worth of race gas, leaned it out, bolt on the DR's, remove the headlight, etc. First pass, launches good (2.1 60') hit the rev limiter (1st run on 14" wheels), and miss 3rd gear. Oh well. Ran a 15.0@103. EGT was buried all the way through 4th.

2nd run I added a little fuel with the power tuner ran a 13.9@106 with another 2.1 60'. The rest of my group reports large amount of black smoke coming from my car. Too much fuel. But the egt's were high again. Figuring smoke doesn't lie, I lean it out.

3rd run - 2.2 60', half track the car just laid down. No power, egt's pegged. Almost lost to a NX2000, until I turned the power tuner all the way rich and the car took off like a shot. Ran a 14.5@103.

4th run was a mess. I red lighted, but didn't realize it (the bumper of the car hung too low and tripped the lights). Car pulled ok, but the end result was a 16.5@103.

That was it for the day. I'm quite disappointed with having to tune my car every trip to the track. Why does it belch smoke so bad, but runs lean? Why won't it idle right? Why can't I make more than 22 lbs of boost? Why do I keep trying? The DFI is a pain in the ass. Is there any other way to run the 625's?

Thanks for listening.

Not putting down standalone engine management systems(i know a lot of you guys use em) but that is EXACTLY why one will never be in my car. i hate lots of tuning, it pisses me off, and everyone i know with standalones has problems tuning, cause there are SO many variables. if i had a dyno in my garage, or my car was track only, id get one. but not when i drive it everyday. ill go as far as injectors,fuel pump,FMU, and SAFC will take me. if you beat me then, then good for you i guess. i feel for ya man, and i hope you get it worked out. only thing i can think of is maybe a haltech or the new AEM if they make a universal one.

Maybe the Greddy E-Mange or possibly the 8-injector set-up. I am with Nitrous on this one as well, I can't stand that much tuning on a daily driver....I don't think I could handle all that confusion! Good luck Greg....

I'm gonna say the 8 injector setup also. But this requires some time consuming tuning, but after its done, you shouldnt have to play around with the settings much at all. IMO, this is THE best setup out there. It retains stock fuel maps, and igntion timing curves, under normal vac conditions, and also uses stock ignition curves under boost, while just adding additional fuel. No need to fool the ecu, map sensors, tps sensors, ect..Gets my vote anyday. Only other thing needed for higher boost, would be an ignition amp/ and or retard unit. The car isnt much fun if most of the time is spent tuning, instead of driving :(

Damn Greg those are bad ass 60's for fwd. What DR do you use (brand and size?)

Well if anyone here can feel your pain I am definitely one of those people. Sometimes I want to rip the thing out and through it out the window.

All I can say is dyno tune, dyno tune, dyno tune. This goes for ANY stand alone, just be thankful you don’t have to fuck w/ spark and fuel, it is double the headache.

For one I think the 625cc that we use are too big. At 6000 rpm and 7.94mS the duty cycle is only at ~.40% and that is about the most it gets to on the fuel map.

>Why does it belch smoke so bad, but runs lean?

If I have the power box set at 5, 0% I get a BIG black puff of smoke from first to second shift and a much smaller one from second to third. If I set the box to 6, ?% I only get a small puff between first and second.

What octane are you using at the track? I think anything over 104 is kind of overkill. My car runs bad ass on 104.

My EGT's peg or come real close to at the end of the track. I had the same result on 91, 100, 104, 110 octane.

110 was no good my car looked like it had a diesel engine and had no power. I did like the combination of 104 octane and 20+ psi, it did nothing but make me smile.

>Why won't it idle right?

Daily or at the track?
You have all the extras to help your idle i.e. o2 sensor IAT. It should cycle in close loop @ idle. If it isn’t your going to have to mess w/ the map. The DFI isn’t as good as say the stock ECU in making the adjustments from the info it receives from the sensors. W/ the power control module you are basically doing what a stock ecu would do by itself. You also have to remember that the idle and cruising are the same map. That is why when you get hesitation in cruising conditions you can adjust the idle control to fix the sticky spots. But if you make an adjustment while cruising your idle is going to be out of whack. The only thing you can do is adjust the pulse width for both cruising and idle to bring them closer together. I had it set perfect a few months ago. It would cycle @ idle and cruising and I had virtually no hesitation but I was a dumb ass and didn’t save it before I loaded the stock map for the track.

>Why can't I make more than 22 lbs of boost?
What are you controlling the boost w/? MDC or EBC?

BOV might be opening. I know the s16g can go higher, I've run 25 before.

Brian

he heheh heheheh hehehe. hehee hehe :-D

smoke "does" lie, and so do egt's. you need a wideband o2 sensor and meter to "know" what your air fuel ratio is. everytime I blew my engine, I had some "black smoke" in there too. your egt's may have been high because you didnt' hav eenough ignition timing, keeping most of the flame by.......your egt thermocouple ;). also, you can't run more than 22 psi mainly because of the 16G. 22 psi is pushing it for that turbo (not saying it won't do it, but it won't do much more at 7K rpm.). you need to get a wideband o2 sensor, and hook up a datalogger, and watch yoru ignition timing, keep an eye on dips, and adjust your timign retard in relation to that and air/fuel ratio read out "by an accurate wideband o2 sensor" and not go by instructions on a paper. when you get to the stage you are at now, you have to come "big boy style". as soon as you get your tuning straightened out, you will soon be getting rid of your turbo and getting something bigger. I know that my turbosystem came with instructions to retard my timing about 8 degrees (after you decode what the dip switches are reccomended to be set to)(even 'though my car was making a whopping 16 to 14 degrees of timing with no fcd). you have too much stuff to be tuning with the butt dyno ;).


A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on............

Thanks for the input guys. I richened up the fuel map yesterday and the car ran rough, like it should on a rich map with race gas. So my first problem at the track was not realizing I was lean to start with and then leaning it out more for the race gas (106, btw). On my 3rd run, I did datalog the timing and I had between 18 and 25 degrees (plus the retard of about 1 degree) for the whole run. It was also very linear.

As far as the idle is concerned, I think it has more to do with the maps I've been running. The pw is too small (1.4 net), so it acts funny. I guess going from 9.5:1 to 8.8:1 was a bigger 'tuning' jump than I expected. The car was sooo close to being dialed in on the 9.5:1's.

The dr's are BFG T/A g-force 225/45/14 mounted on some old aluminum wheels. I'm pretty sure given a nice warm day and better track conditions, 1.9's aren't out of the question.

And Armond, you are right. Smoke lies, egt's lie and I need to get my car to a dyno BAD. And I know the s16g is only good (efficient)to about 22psi, but I have seen 25 on it before. I think my mbc is flaky, so I think I'm getting myself a Profec B for Xmas. That and a FP30 or T3/T4. :D

I may be back at track in a couple of weeks, I want revenge!!!

an FP 30 would make you the new king for quite some time ;)

A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on............

Well, I don't want to be the king, but I do want to be able to hang with all these 12 sec DSM's we seem to have around here. On second thought, king would be ok. ;)

Hang in there, Greg! Your set up has all the right tools to run low e/t's. It will require a good dyno session.

I can relate to how frustrating it is to tune the DFI. I've tried playing with the fuel maps during normal driving around town, and have made adjustments with the Power Tuner for WOT runs. I'm always afraid to make too much adjustments "blindly" because it's never been dyno tuned since the stage IV setup.

I can also relate to your thirst to see 12's! I was pretty disappointed when I didn't run low 13's. I know it has to do with the boost timing retard, the DFI fuel maps, and of coures, my inability to stick a 1.9-2.0 60 foot.

Greg, if you can, could you post a screen shot of your fuel map. I'd like to compare it to mine.

I'll dl them and email them to you. You'll probably freak out. I don't think I ever had a 'good' base file to start with. I been thinking about calling HRC and having them send me the 'stock' fuel map. I'll be alright, I'm already making plans to go back to the track in a couple of weeks. Hopefully I'll get my 12 then.