I've got buddies who're running these Mustang injectors and having no problems with EGTs at 15psi, and yet, I can't seem to get them to work as close as 13psi without leaning out halfway through 3rd gear!! This is at the richest setting my FPR will take, and a 30psi idle. What the hell can I do to remedy this high EGT?? I can't make decent cool runs unless i'm somewhere near 7-9psi. Aren't these injectors supposed to be 50% larger than stock? My stock injectors held between 8 and 10, which means these should technically hold between 12 and 16-ish pounds, and the tech at Hahn told me they're sufficient for 15lbs of boost.





Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

are you sure your high egts arent b/c of TOO MUCH fuel?

too much fuel will cause afterburn, and high egts

hows your a/f during these pulls?

any fuel tuning device in ehre like an safc?? tuning is the key and it could be too much fuel...

what are your a/f numbers

No other devices, don't know about the fuel thing. I'm sure i'm not that rich, because if i lower my ratio any, my EGTs jump faster. I tried to lean out my car and the leaner i got, the less progress i made.



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

If you're using the HRC FPR, I would suspect that first and invest in a Vortech S-FMU.

Also, what kind of fuel pump(s) are you using.

The 30LB injectors are definetely good for over 10psi, so I believe you have a fuel pressure problem.

Whats your fuel pressure for 15psi?? At my 10 psi on those injects, my fuel is around 75 psi. For 15 psi, a good guess is that you will need around 110 psi? Check your A/F voltage too under WOT. If you can, datalog the car to see exactly what is going on with your fuel setup.

this may be a stupid question but do you have an intercooler? your sig says stage 1 and mentions nothing about an aftermarket or other intercooler. If your not running one then thats your problem right there. if you are then I'm curious were these injectors used or new?

haha, yeah, it's not very clear, sorry, it's the First gen side-mount IC, i was thinking maybe if i took it off and cleaned it out before the race, i dont' know if it's ever been cleaned or not. Also i was thinking of running injector cleaner through the system, since, both teh injectors and the SMIC were purchased used.

My FPR is fine, my fuel pressure readings under boost are very consistent, but then again my boost spikes and falls off through every gear, causing FP to do the same. I think, if i can remember right, I was spiking at 125psi when i was making 12psi runs at the current setup i am now. OR, i do very much remember 80psi at 6lbs of boost before i started leaning it out. But, the more i leaned, the quicker i hit 900 deg. C.



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

My friends datalogger is broken, otherwise i would do so.



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

125psi at 12psi Boost??? That is way too much. You should be at around 82psi fuel pressure at that boost.

Yo man you have the S-fmu don't you? You split the injectors with me a while back when I was getting my eng. rebuilt. Well I am almost ready to install the injctors (probably Saturday) and am currious what disk and spring combo you are using for 13psi. That is the same boost I was looking to run. If you can give me some base numbers to work with I will let you know how mine comes out. But you are right they should easily handle 13psi, so it may be a problem with your fuel lines. Let us know.
Patrick
96 GS
HRC kit, S20G, FMIC, Howell bottom end 8.6 pistons, S-FMU, Blitz BOV, P&P head, SS valves, lots more little goodies

Nope, i have Hahn's shit FPR! I hope i didn't get ya bogus injectors!! :( I'm sure it's just a problem with my setup. If I were to run around 82psi at 12 lbs of boost, i don't even know if i could get through second gear. I'll try it again, though. Anyone wanna let me borrow a datalogger that they aren't using :) :) :)



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

You should really lok at corbin's fuel building page. Those formulas kick ass. http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/example.html (just so you know I didn't pull that number outta my ass :P)

Do you ever hear any detonation? If you do, then you know its too lean. When i was running to lean becuase of the FCD being bad, i got some good detonation on hard pulls at 7 or 8 psi. So do you know exactly what your fuel pressure was at 15 psi? A/F voltages will def tell you a lot also. If you dont have a gaguge, just use a voltmeter to see whats its at. It could be a clogged/faulty fuel injector, but if it was, then i would bet you should be hearing some detonation from that cylinder for sure. Just be careful until you get this prob resolved..

Haha, i've browsed the pages,i trust your estimate. I don't know how to feel or hear detonation but every now and then, especially in 5th gear 4k rpm pulls, i'll feel a slight jolt just after i build full boost. I'll be at the track on Friday, I just bought Nitto NT555R's for my stock wheels, and they kick ass.

If i bought a digital voltmeter to do a quick test, how would i check it under boost? If it was afterburn i was getting, would i be reading over 1.x on the voltmeter?... if thats what you're talking about. I plan on making my own digital o2 sensor but don't have the time right now with all the school and stuff.



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

I may ask my friend if i can borrow his OBD-II cable, and then try to find somebody else with a laptop that i can use for datalogging.




Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

yeah Jon I'm not a fuel guru but I get around 100-110 psi on stock injectors at 8psi with a star kit. And with you having the larger injectors I must say I think your too rich and getting some afterburn. I would however clean out both your IC and your injectors just to be safer going forward. that is if it's not too much of a pia. As for your voltmeter all you have to do is tap into your o2 sensor wire at the ecu. Then run that hotwire to the probe and make the hotwire long enough to reach the cockpit then you can get your o2 voltage under boost. And I don't have the hrc kit but from what I hear from the guy's you may want to buy the sfmu.

It has been under consideration for awhile now, but i bought DR's so didn't have any omre cahs for S-FMU. I bought the fuel injector cleaner and i'm running it right now as i type, but haven't noticed any significant difference YET. When I bought my SMIC it had 90K on it, and i haven't cleaned it and i dont't hink it's been cleaned, so i guess i'll take a whiff at that. I don't mean to be a mooch or anything but could somebody give me an ECU reference diagram so I know which wire to tap for the O2 sensor...Do you think a bad o2 sensor could be causing this? I wouldn't think so, to such an extent. Damn, should have picked up a digital voltmeter while i was at wal-mart. Looks like i'll be making another trip soon :). Thanks for your help, i wish i had that diagram now :(



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

EGTs will also rise as timing is retarded. If you are knocking, timing will be pulled back, and your EGTs will rise. I'd increase your base fuel pressure for starters, and if that doesn't help at all, just turn the boost down until you can build a better fuel system for it.

A Jumptronix digital A/F meter will help you diagnose your problem much more easily. id guess it is your cartech FPR, your fuel pressures shouldnt be at 125psi. and, im no 1g sidemount expert, but at 15psi with a descent sized turbo, you may be reaching the limit of its effective cooling capabilities, but that still doesnt explain your sky high fuel pressures. get a SFMU as soon as you can.

Is everyone overlooking the fact that he's running 30psi at idle. Last I checked it should be 40-45psi at idle? Have things changed since the last time i've been on the board? I'm not sure but I doubt having larger fuel injecters would allow you to run lower pressure at idle.

Yeah.....if i tried to run 45 psi at idle with these injectors my car would barely run!!!



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

nitrous brings up a very good point. Have you ever checked the outlet of the IC, goint to the TB? It should be noticably cooler than the intlet, if not, then the IC is getting heat soaked, and if it is, then 15psi is pretty darn hot going into the motor. I would def check that, as i was getting heat soaked at 8 psi, because of how the IC was mounted, it wasnt getting good enough airflow. So i made some air deflectors, and i am using both the fog opening and the far opening to get air right into the IC. My IC is always cool now, no matter how hot it is outside. This is at 10 psi too.

I don't really think i'd be at the limit of its capability, since the stock boost for the 1G's is 12, if i remember right. Today i got a better chance to deal with it, and found out that all the way through third gear, my egts hang out around 875, and then as soon as i shift into 4th, they fly past 900. I'll increase base fuel pressure tomorrow, my idle is right around 30 right now. Friday i'll have datalogging capability, thank god. What O2 numbers should i be looking for? I know lean is .92 and below, and rich is .96 and above, is that right? My IC is angled, but not too much to effect airflow, that i can think of. Hmm...i wonder if i took off my front bumper and made some runs if it would make a difference...? :)



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

That intercooler may be giving you some problems. I'd listen to these guys and check the airflow out of the intercooler....it should be nice and cool. Remember, 12psi stock on a 1G is A LOT different than 12psi on your car. I think that sidemount is at least part of your problem....

When you guys say your car will not run with the stock fuel pressure, how long are you waiting before you decide that? I had to wait about 10 minutes before mine started to idle perfect, which it did at stock fuel pressure and with 50lb/hr injectors. I think you should give it another try. Reset the ecu and reset the fuel pressure and then see what happens. When I say 10 minutes I mean I started the car and just left it sitting there. It idled pretty rough for a while and then like magic idled perfect.

>When you guys say your car will not run with the stock fuel
>pressure, how long are you waiting before you decide that? I
>had to wait about 10 minutes before mine started to idle
>perfect, which it did at stock fuel pressure and with
>50lb/hr injectors. I think you should give it another try.
>Reset the ecu and reset the fuel pressure and then see what
>happens. When I say 10 minutes I mean I started the car and
>just left it sitting there. It idled pretty rough for a
>while and then like magic idled perfect.


See I have no idea how the ECU can idle with that large of injects at stock fuel pressure. I have the 315's, and i was getting a too rich CEL with anything over 28 psi at idle pressure. Fuel trims were almost pegged at -25% on the datalogger. Now, i run 25 psi of fuel at idle, NO CEL's whatsoever, and excellent fuel trims, very close to stock trims. Car runs and pulls excellent. Wierd...

Weeel, i raised my idle FP to around 48-49 and seems to run about the same at idle, it's not bogging down and I can hit the end of 4th at around 890-895, right on the edge of 900. This shouldn't be normal though, and god knows what my FP is under boost. i have the supplies to datalog and i'll probably do it tonight late or early tomorrow before i go to the track.




Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.49@99mph 7/27/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

Good to hear. Glad I could help

I'm back, had a fun night at the track, spent 10 bucks on 110 and 15 to enter, and got two runs in :(. My 90 degree coupler elbow shattered under 11psi of boost (?), not to mention my ever-soaring 925C EGT. Looks like the problem isn't solved after all. Oh well screw it, i'll just buy the 440's and hope they're decent enough. I read that you can use them without an AFC. Sounds good to me. But if you look I did update my time, if my elbow wouldn't have blown, i would have been in the 13's. Can't have everything, i guess. Looks like i'll be placing an order for the 440's on monday. Anybody know of a place other than Hahn to buy them??




Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

14.21@101mph 10/4/02

MODS: 8.8:1 JE Pistons / Eagle rods / Stage 1 Hahn turbocharger / Melling Oil Pump / Autometer 5" tach / 2 JL 12" W0 subwoofers / JL Audio 500/1 amp / Clarion 230w amp / short shifter mod / GReddy EVO exhaust / custom 2 1/2" downpipe / no cat con / CM Stage 1 / 30lb Mustang injectors / TurboXS MBC / 1G SMIC / Eibach Sportline springs / KYB GR-2 struts / GReddy 52mm EGT

call summit racing or go online with them. I don't know if they have them but they do have the accell injectors.