I went to Avenger ES-T's house today to install my 42lb injectors and SAFC.
Well he said lets run it with no SAFC and just tune the SFMU.
So he did it. Idles PERFECT, runs GREAT, no problems at all...NONE.
We took it up to 18psi......that felt GRRRRRRREAT!!!, but since we were only running 93 octane, we turned it down to 15psi and took it out and drove it around for a while, took out the plugs and did a compression check. 175, 175, 175, 175.
I turned it down from 15 psi to 13 psi because I need to get a colder plug than the ones I have now.

But anyway,@ 15psi my o2 voltage was maxed out, and EGT's never went over 1500 at the manifold (in the hottest spot of the manifold, between cylinders 2 and 3)
and the car still pulled very very strong.
It will be Dynoed and syno tuned either Thursday or Friday, even though I am pretty sure it is right where it needs to be now
I am very happy and pleased with my car right now.
I am sure Armond will want to add something here.

Oh yeah I saw Murix's car run with 525cc's and no SAFC, also with no problems.

42lbs is ~441cc right?

What fuel/boost ratio? 1:1????

Yeah 441cc

No it wasn't even the 1:1 Regulator, I have the SFMU.

per say i got a built motor with 8.5/8.8:1 compression built motor. with 440cc injectors whats the max psi i can 'safe' i live in so cal so best octane i got is 91octane. i would say 17psi?.. also whats the max on 100 octane about? 20psi?.. with 500cc injectors the the car will idle/run fine since murix has the 515cc or so, but if i use a super afc is it still worth it?.. i really want to run around 18-20psi max on 91-100octane later...
cool

Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2
Stage 3 process begins anyone got a 420a block thats not spun/head for sale?

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

What did you set your fuel pressures at(idle and boosted)??

damn, i have NO idea how you guys are using such large injectors without problems with no SAFC. I have the 315's, idle pressure is around 25 psi, static around 35 psi, and these pressures give me very good fuel trim #'s. At idle, i still get around -5 to -7 on short term fuel trim, but i dont want to lower my idle pressure any more on the injectors. With any pressure higher than that 25 psi at idle, i would get a system too rich code, because my long term fuel trims were almost staying at -25 %. Plese DATALOG you car!!! I'm really interested on what you may find in the numbers...Drive it around and see if you get a CEL too...I dont know how you guys can do this.. My car drove fine and pulled hard too with the rich code CEL and high fuel trim #'s, but it sucked gas like no other, and the CEL always came on. Ruined my o2 sensor also! So just becuase its running good, doesnt mean you fuel trims are really good. I found that out when i datalogged my car..

he told me he has 23 at idle and 75psi of fuel at 15psi.. something about using a disk smaller then 2.72"
cool

Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2
Stage 3 process begins anyone got a 420a block thats not spun/head for sale?

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

Then he was probably using the 2.22" which is ~2.5:1 rise rate.

I hope you have a MSD dis2 or you are going to be buying new pistons pretty soon.

Not if he doesn't have too much timing. Armond had Murix's car running 18psi and timing never went close to too high w/ the stock ECU.

Yeah I still have about 17* of advancement or whatever the stock ECU is. So my timing will be fine. It is just running like stock right off of the ECU and I have the missing Link, so my map wire is untouched.
You Dave FL needed the Msd dis because you had the SAFC hooked up and it advanced your timing.

Oh yeah I do have a CEL though, but no biggie, I would rather have the CEL for being too rich than too lean, which I have had before.

What are these codes..... 52, 42, 42, 43

I don't know why it blinked the 42 twice though.

>Oh yeah I do have a CEL though, but no biggie, I would
>rather have the CEL for being too rich than too lean, which
>I have had before.
>
>What are these codes..... 52, 42, 42, 43
>
>I don't know why it blinked the 42 twice though.


52= system too rich. Same one i got because my long term fuel trims were pegged at -25%. You need lower fuel pressure under closed loop conditions

42= fuel pump relay circuit
43= ignition coil circuit

If you tried starting the car, or did a comp test with those 2 relays disconnected, that may have tripped the codes 42 and 43

I strongly suggest datalogging your car to monitor your fuel trims and fine tune.

Ok yeah that is exactly what I did, took out the two relays on the firewall to do a Comp. check.

man if murix ran with 515cc and 96avenger is running 440cc with no S-AFC and just the S-FMU. I'm gonna start looking for bigger injectors. I'm currently running the ford motorsport 30lb injectors. how big do the ford motorsport injectors come besides the 19lb,24lb,and 30lb injectors. I have no SAFC and no MSD I do have the S-FMU though. ()

Both cars will be at NOPI Nats so others can see how they are working out. I will reserve total judgement until after I drive it HARD for a week straight and get my a/f numbers as well.

hey have any of you tried the 500 injectors with 1:1 yet or are both using the sfmu.

>But anyway,@ 15psi my o2 voltage was maxed out, and EGT's
>never went over 1500 at the manifold (in the hottest spot of
>the manifold, between cylinders 2 and 3)
>and the car still pulled very very strong.
>Oh yeah I saw Murix's car run with 525cc's and no SAFC, also
>with no problems.

Just because you don't *see* a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. I noticed your tripping codes..

The reason your not getting over 1500, is because there is SOO much unburnt fuel.

I'd be REALLY leary of running like this.. I know someone else who probably destroyed his engine because of too much fuel.

ANY engine builder will tell you that if you have too much fuel, yea EGT's will be low, but your also going to be introducing excess wear to the cylinder walls.. mainly because the gas will wash away the oil. Not only that but you'll also start to get carbon deposits around the valves. You might not have a problem now, maybe not in 2 weeks, but i'll guarantee that you will detonate one day and the result won't be pretty.

Now i'm glad people are finally seeing what a few of us have known all along.. that the computer doesnt *FIGHT* us.. it works to help us. The ECU will always try to maintain safe operating parameters, regardless of what you do to the engine. It just has to be given time to LEARN.

The PROPER way of tuning is to set the *mechanical* parts to close, and then fine tune with electronics. Setting an AFC to -25% across the board is dumb.. as well as running too high a base fuel pressure.
Basically put.. adjust your idle and base fuel pressure until the engine acheives a stable -5% LTFT or there abouts, and then use your AFC to fine tune the EGT's and O2's for the operating range.

Listen to your computer.. it's knows your engine better than you do. That's it's job. If you go way outta wack on any of the variables, it will complain and tell you that it cannot compensate.

I'd hate to see people destroying their cars because they chose to ignore a few codes they felt were "not important".

ttyl

WheatKing

when my ecu said "system too rich" I leaned mine out. tuned it for abotu 12.3 to 1 air/fuel ratio on the dyno. had the egt's at abotu 1600 blazing down the street. guess what happened...................... I am abotu 99.99999% sure mark's car could run the way it is runnign fo ryears without a problem. his plugs were "quite clean". almost "too clean" if you ask me (and that is with .98 on the oxygen sensor and 1500 degree egt's after a good long 3rd-4th gear pull. if there is anything I have learned in the past couple of years is that the 420A likes to be run rich.......a lot (like most high end turbocharged cars strange enough ;) ). since mark is runnign the stock ignition system, I woudl immagine that if he ran rich enough to wash the cylinders out, he would also have a problem sparkign the fuel off. that car didn't skip once.....at any boost level. I fully suspect hsi car to make 300 wheel hp with a little bit of 100 octane all day long (he has a very good car).


A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on............

WEll almost, but Armond is right I think I could do 300 Hp daily because I put 265FWHP on dyno today at only 13 psi so I can't wait to see what it looks like on with 18 psi.