I was getting a low map sensor voltage CEL and it was only reading 3.8 on the sensor check thing on the s-afc. It is suposed to be around 4.5 with the key on but car not running. So I bought a new map sensor and put it on thinking it would fix it. It didnt work. Still had low voltage. So i said shit, I might as well try and see what happens if I take off this FCD I have on there even though I have a 97. I took it off and now my car is a lot better!!! My car was sluggish before. It used to bog down and hesitate a lot. Now it runs great under boost with no FCD!! I am holing 9 psi perfect and my car isnt running lean anymore!!!! I have heard of a few people running boost on a 1997 with no FCD or VC1 and it worked for them. It also works for me!!! I was mad the other day when i didnt beat a GSR as much as I should have. Now I know why. It was that damn FCD that was slowing my car down. This was why I havent installed my injectors yet. Now my car is running good and the injectors are ready to go in. I cant wait for 15 psi!!! I am going to order a missing link though just to be safe.


About 30 minutes later.....Just went on a highway test drive. My EGT's are finally back to normal!! That damn FCD was making my egt;s skyrocket by running it lean. I was making somw 3rd and 4th gear pulls and my egt's stayed under 1600 the whole time at 9 psi! I am so happy that I finally got this bullshit problem fixed. :)

hey dave sorry for the question but what is FCD and VC1. What is this part of fuel system ??


thanks

Allright Dave. Glad you got that cleared up.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Gude cams : test pipe : AFX UDP : ram air : Thrush glasspack : Dual air horns : Kenwood KDC 5000 : AutoCommand remote start
incomming - lower strut bars

Hmmmm...this is very interesting indeed..your post dave has just made me start to think into more on my problem with running to lean at 8 psi on stock injectors and over 110 psi if fuel pressure..although i dont have any cel's, maybe my FCD isn't clamping at the full 4.5 volts, and making the computer not keep the injectors open long enough for more fuel? hmmm...well any way, its good to hear its figured out man :)

dsm lights.... The vc1 and the FCD are used on 97 and newer cars that are turboed so the computer doesnt know the car is running on boost. Supposedly you cant run boost without one on a 97 or newer car. But its not necessarily true. Some cars without the FCd or vc1 get fuel cut when under boost.

xtremers.... You should get a s-afc so you can check the voltage on the sensor check. Or just test it out with a voltage tester. I didnt think my car would run boost well without it but it does. Before I would run rich in 1st and second gear then in third it would lean out like crazy. Now its rich in all gears

:)

I did a few 1st through 4th pulls w/ no FCD troubleshooting a problem. Never got any sort of fuel cut either. I'm kinda sluggish and boggy in areas now so maybe I'll try w/ out it for awhile.

HOly crap!!!! Well I had my volt meter with me tonight cause i was doing some pulls and watching my o2 voltages, so i thought i would test the voltage directly across the FCD. I tested directly across the 2 black and red wires at the FCD with the voltmeter and got 4.01 volts with the ignition on, but not running! Do you guys think this could be my problem? It should be at 4.5 volts right? Damn, if this is it, dave, i owe you man! Haha without even trying to help :)

I ALWAYS looked at that FCD FIRST when I had the EXACT same problems Dave. I just figured you'd have already looked there. Every damn time someone is lean (or appears so because of high EGT's or low A/F ratios) with their turbokits, and the fuel pressure is good, everyone shoudl always suspect their FCD of being bad. I've had both bad VC1's and countless bad HRC Fuel Mappers.

I say screw both of those products and do it right the first time. Get the Missing Link from Group5 Motorsports for $55. It's worth your engine not blowing!!

>
>I say screw both of those products and do it right the first
>time. Get the Missing Link from Group5 Motorsports for $55.
> It's worth your engine not blowing!!


Yep yep, already done :thumbsup :thumbsup

Yep I was getting anywhere form 3.8 -4.0 volts. Thats your problem. Get that damn FCD off of there!!!!!!!

Dave, I went out and checked my voltage w/ my s-afc and i'm only getting 3.5. I also only get 3.7 under boost. My egts are under control, but my afr gauge is all wacked out. It shows like .01 under boost. Fuck, I'm just going to take my fcd off and see what happens. I know what you mean about the sluggishness and hesitation. Justin

I drove home tonight w/ no FCD. Ran perfect in 1st-3rd. Pulled very hard and smooth. BUT I was fuel cutting in 4th and 5th :(

I should have a missing link tomorrow UPS from group5. Took awhile for them to send it, but just email them for a tracking number and they'll get it right to you.

So with the missing link thing you can scrap the FCD is what I'm getting from this post??? I'm ordering my kit in a couple days so I guess it would be a good thing to order the missing link now so I have it when it comes time to put everything in??? BTW mine is a 96 and you guys are all saying 97 and up needs the FCD so really do I need to worry about this at all????

TIA :)

>So with the missing link thing you can scrap the FCD is what
>I'm getting from this post???

Yes.

I'm ordering my kit in a
>couple days so I guess it would be a good thing to order the
>missing link now so I have it when it comes time to put
>everything in???


Yes, if you operate an obd-2 type ecu.

BTW mine is a 96 and you guys are all
>saying 97 and up needs the FCD so really do I need to worry
>about this at all????


I think actually that statement was mistated. Most likely, most 96's need some sort of clamp to prevent the MAP sensor from seeing boost. Is your fuel filter in the back of your car? If so, I'd guess you'll need a FCD.

Since the 95 and 96 cars dont need any map clamp at all, why couldn't we just use their map sensor?? Just swap it out with ours..that way we wouldn't need anything on there...Is this possible?

pretty sure you would need the ECU from them also though, cause the ECU in our cars(97+) is gonna want to read a map sensor input, and when it does, it will freak out when it sees too much voltage still. well, at least in MOST cases it will.. :-)

The MAP sensors are the same from 95-99. It's the ECU which reads the boosted voltage from the MAP which freaks out, and then sends a message to your fuel injectors to stop firing. Hence, fuel cut.

Thanx for the info guys, ordering one today. My fuel filter is in the back of the car so I will get one, guessing I fall into the 97 and above category since my build date is after 1/96. If for some reson I end up not needing it at least I know I can pass it on to someone on here pretty easy. Just can't wait for the boost now....:)

>The MAP sensors are the same from 95-99. It's the ECU which
>reads the boosted voltage from the MAP which freaks out, and
>then sends a message to your fuel injectors to stop firing.
>Hence, fuel cut.

What if we swap JUST the ECU from a 95-96 2GNA? Will I loose power or will I gain from this swap?

Don
'99 Eclipse GS Sports Edition
Star Stage 2

Update on FCD removal... I did experience a small amount of fuel cut today. Only when at low boost and partial throttle though. Never get it when under full boost. It happened about 4 times today. I guess my car isnt fuel cut proof after all. But I would rather have some partial throttle fuel cut than that damn FCD that messes up my car and makes it run super lean. The missing link should be here soon though.

>>>Update on FCD removal... I did experience a small amount of fuel cut today. Only when at low boost and partial throttle though. Never get it when under full boost. It happened about 4 times today. I guess my car isnt fuel cut proof after all. But I would rather have some partial throttle fuel cut than that damn FCD that messes up my car and makes it run super lean. The missing link should be here soon though.<<<

Yeah I pulled mine off last night after I read your post. It was running awesome and I was ready to come home and tell everyone but I started getting fuel cut at like 2-3psi part throttle in 4th and 5th. So I guess it's the same thing as yours. Mine was cutting hard too. Like hitting a wall :/

That's pretty typical actually. (for your car not to freak out upon the first instance of boost without a FCD)

I've gone through all the same things you fellas are. You won't experience the fuel cuts right away. Usually it takes a few times boosting before your car recognizes that things aren't as they should in regards to your MAP sensor reading boost.

However, getting the Missing Link installed should resolve any issues anyone has in regards to wacked out MAP readings. Not worrying about this issue anymore is quite a relief to me.

Yep, i disconnected my FCD today for the hell of it, and damn, at first it was awsome, but on the highway, it hit fuel cut just like your guy's did. About 2-4 psi, in 5th or 4th, car jerked hard! The missing link is on its way, should be here on Thursday..cant wait to finally get this running strong at 8 or 9 psi :) And as a side note, i kept the ignition on and measured the map voltage at about 4.1 volts, then cut the red wire on the FCD, then volts went up right away to 4.54 volts..haha..is it just me, or am i thinking the only thing left that is part of the "Hahn" kit anymore, is the damn turbo and the manifold? hmm...i've replaced damn near everything else that came in the kit! :(

>>>or am i thinking the only thing left that is part of the "Hahn" kit anymore, is the damn turbo and the manifold?<<<

That's one reason that I did a custom job. Other than the fact that I'm poor :p

How long does the missing link take to ship? Are they pretty fast at sending it out? I am all the way down in Florida. I ordered it yesterday. I hope it gets here soon.

>How long does the missing link take to ship? Are they
>pretty fast at sending it out? I am all the way down in
>Florida. I ordered it yesterday. I hope it gets here soon.

They are in California. I'm in Michigan, so normal ground is about 5 buisness days. My impatient ass cant wait that long so its being second dayed to me :)

I took mine off and all the hesitation was gone. It was great, but later I went for a ride w/ my girlfriend in the car and I started getting some fuel cut, too. I can't believe how much smoother it runs going into boost at lower engine speeds. Oh yeah, my AFR readings are accurate now. I ordered a missing link yesterday, too. Man, group5 must have sold a hell of alot of these things in the last 2 daays.

I know what you mean. That FCD was making our cars run so bad and slow. My car feels like it has an extra 3-4 psi now since it has been taken off.

The morning after i ordered it off group 5, I was changing out my o2 sensor, and when i just got finished throwing my ratchet thru the wall, a little ray of sunshine shown apon my face. The lil' man wearing all brown came to my garage with a tiny package. So that was super fast service for me :) Oh but i live in so cal.

I am on the other side of the country like 3000 miles away.

What is the website for the group5 missing link?

Who is actually using it with good results?

Did you feel like you were making more power than before?

Do you still get the slight motor hesitation when approx. 5 vacuum? My car kind of chugs when I am in that sweet spot of 6 to 4 vacuum since I installed the kit last year. When it is above or below that number it is perfect.

Btw: you will always run hotter egt when pulling in the top of 4th gear. It will be slightly cooler in 3rd and even cooler in 2nd. You get the idea. The higher the gear the more load on the motor. When rpm goes up so does injector duty cycle and fuel requirements. For those that did not know why you will run higher egt in the taller gears.

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!

heres the web site.

http://www.group5motorsport.com/cgi-bin/GRPstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=SE-MissingLink

And a few people are using it and they say it works well.

Well i'll be getting it in on Thursday evening, so i'll let you guys know how it goes. Any yes, the car went into boost sooo much smoother, and it had more power just like you guys have noticed too. My car had a slight hesitation/null in power right about at 5-0 hg's before with the FCD hooked up..

hummm wonder if this is why my egts shoot up while at WOT... should look into that.

I got mine today, and I ordered it on the 14th late at night... so mine took quite some time.... it was sent and tracking info was emailed to me a few days after i emailed them though... and I am in Indiana, so thats a long travel on the ground...

Were in Indiana are you?

So I checked my sensor last night.. 4.295 - 4.3. Looks like I am going to be taking mine out too and see if it fixes my EGT problems. Cross your fingers.

Ok, results are in from the Missing Link!!! All i can say is MUCH BETTER!!!! At 8 psi at the top of 4th gear, i'm seeing .92-.93 o2 voltages, and about 1550-1575 egt's. Even in this hot ass, humid weather here, the car was pullin damn hard. Right after i got the ML installed, before i had a chance to tune my fuel, i smoked a Merc cougar :)He was all revvin on me and shiz. I was running mad rich and about 6.5 psi, but spanked him. The passenger was like hell yeah! :) Damn, its so nice to have this problem resolved.. haha now i got a boost leak somewhere hahaha.. Oh yeah, took about a whole 5 minutes to install too :thumbsup

I don't see a change in voltage. With the key in the on position, I get 3.72V with the FCD and 3.72V w/o it. Any ideas?

ya, read ^^^...

good to hear yall are tunin/werkin shit out for us future turbo OBD2 2gntzzzz

peace

If you dont see a change in voltage then your MAP sensor is bad. Its supposed to be 4.5 volts.

I guess I got lucky. Mine read 4.6 volts across the FCD.