For all you OBD-2 turboed guys, Installing the damn fuel system is more of a BizN@*#^@(*&tch than i thought, I've got the whole concept in my head but I can't seem to find the first step of this damn thing,

I'm suppose to find the service fitting off teh fuel rail, than it goes to the FPR "in" than from there it goes to the FPR "out" to the back of the car, blah blah blah, I CAN"T FIND THE BASTARD.
It's suppose to be off my rail on the passengert side not there, it could've been between my 3rd anf 4th injectors, nope not there either!! ahhhh!!!! what the hell do I do? My fuel rail is smooth there are no bumps or fittings or anythings, just a straight rail! Help me out guys! later!!!

P.S. RAY I HATE THIS SH*T, AT THIS RATE YOUR CAR WILL BE REBUILT BEFORE I EVER SEE BOOST!!

You looked and can't find it there either?!?!?


Dude, that really is a bad setup. You're just going to have to get a new fuel rail man. It's not too hard to install and I'm sure you could aquire one for relatively cheap.

Here's a picture of his dilemma: :-(



Notice: where's the fuel service fitting?!?!? (out to lunch?)


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

Jason,

just wanted to publicly say Thanks for answering every single damn, (and sometimes pretty stupid) question that I've ever asked. No matter how small it seemed, whether it was for my car or my bud's legal problems you always tried to reply. NOW WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP ME!!? Good Gawd, I don't want to get another fuel rail!

Ok I have a 97 so that must mean I am OBD2. What are you talking about now? Are you looking for the schrader valve(test valve, cuz I have one) or are you looking for something else? Buy another fuel rail? Damn it's getting more expensive than I thought. Somebody please answer his question and mine too.

DAmN! Our cars seem so inconsistent from year to year, and from within years too! :(

Do you have a return line ... ?

Are you trying to mimic the setup of the OBD1? (Where the return line is on the fuel rail ?)



l e o n

There trying to run a return line from the test port (minicing OBDI 95 cars) but it looks like all cars might not have a test port from the sound of it. Odd that all cars wouldn't. Doesn't the OBDII scan tool use the test port to test fuel pressure? I cant imagine why Chrysler wouldn't but one on every car. Anyone lese not have one/cant find it. Mines in the center of the rail. And Damn I'm glad I have a 95'. You could probably drill the end of the trail and attach a fitting for a return line. A not that umcommon practice on some cars (but not nearly as care free as using the test port).


Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon ES-I-NOS but T soon!
http://members.nbci.com/FlyEsi/home.htm
You too can have a never updated site complete with old info and dated pics!

>Are you
>looking for the schrader valve(test
>valve, cuz I have one)
>


YES! that is exactly what we are looking for. Where is yours located?

http://smkn95eclipsemwc.homestead.com/mainpage.html

The Schrader valve on my car is located on the passenger side, directly on the left of the fuel rail. It's near the bottom, exactly where Jason posted the pic. Now Jason when I install the kit, do I need to take the scrader valve off and hook up the vacuum from there? I thought you would just need to "mate it with the nipple."

No, you have a couple of things confused here.

The service fitting is for FUEL. The fuel leads into a FPR on the IN side. This whole discussion relates to creating a fuel return line.

The vacuum that leads into the FPR is from the intake plenum, of course.

Take a look at a vacuum assisted FPR. It has a number of inlets and outlets. Some of these entries are for fuel, and others are for vacuum lines.

Re-examine your instructions also. hHope this helps!

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

For those who have no idea what we're talking about, here's my service fitting at the same spot with the fuel return line present. (sorry it's so big) :-(




Anyways, you NEED something in your car to act as a fuel return off that fuel rail (either via obd-1 stock fuel return line OR a service fitting to use as a fuel return line). It's SO important that we have this b/c it allows us to use a vacuum/boost assisted fuel pressure regulator so our car can receive more fuel when needed. There's on other way UNLESS you can get yourself a stand-alone cpu with a new map sensor that will electronically compensate for the additional fuel without the mechanical need for vacuum/boost.

It appears a new fuel rail will be needed here OR like Stan said, DRILL!!!! For those of you considering going turbo, and if you have like a 95-96, go take a look at your fuel rail. It's will get you a head-start game plan.



Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

Ok, now I have a question well sort of....
When we put on the nitrous kit we had to pull out a check valve/service fitting whatever to hook up the fuel line to on the fuel log, is this same thing you are talking about? If so the cap looks like a big version of a tire valve cap. Otherwise I'm lostlol. Pic below..


Michelle
96 Eclipse Base Model
Best 14.6@93 w/60 shot

LAST EDITED ON 05-Mar-01 AT 09:30 AM (PST)

You're completely ON TARGET, Michelle. :-) (no confusion here)

That's something else I've had to emphasize is the removal of that valve with the Schraeder tool. As you've sort of pointed out in a round-about way, the similarites between nitrous and turbocharging aren't so far apart.

But back to the problem in this thread, we're about ready to start placing a LOST ad on milk cartons for any sort of fuel service fitting on his fuel rail. Otherwise, I'm afraid he'll have to go find an updated fuel rail to even have the pleasure of removing the valve you and I have already removed. (If you look at my pic that I've posted, you can see my fuel service fitting with the shiny brass compression fitting that acts as the start of my fuel return line)


SOLUTION:
There is one other solution that comes to mind though. Don't use a fuel return line and go with the old STAR fuel system.

Use a 12:1 FMU(or the BELL FPR and set it to 12:1 - by trial and error) and place it in the back of the car by the stock FPR(retaining the stock FPR).

(NOTE: a good place to start with the bell FPR is to turn the boost knob all the way in(to the right) and then one full turn out(to the left). Also make sure to use a Fuel pressure guage right by the FPR so as to note what your settings are at idle and boost.)

You would place it IN-LINE between the stock FPR and the top nipple of you fuel pump assembly. You may need to experiment with your FPR to achieve the 12:1 ratio. You'll also need to run a vacuum line all the way to the rear of the car to the FPR. (something that HRC does NOT recommend for fear of a miuscommunication happeneing with such a long travel of that vacuum line)

You could also just buy a Vortech FMU but if you pay that much money, you might as well just buy a new fuel rail. A STAR customer may be willing to trade of course.

I would MUCH prefer having an adjustable FPR for it's tuning options and later upgradeablility to bigger injectors,..etc.


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

LAST EDITED ON 05-Mar-01 AT 10:18 AM (PST)

How did you guys pull the shrader valve out? This would be a good place to run a line to fuel pressure sender...unless I can get a shrader fitting (like what my mechanical fuel pressure guage uses).

Ideas?

thanks!


l e o n

As the name says, you need a schrader valve tool. Go to a local auto store and ask for it. I do not remember how much it costs, but I know it was not expensive.

MuRiX
97 Eclipse GS HRC Stage II
And a whole lot of other mods...
89 Accord LSi - yes it's mine :(
http://murix.home.icq.com/index.html

I think we are safe to say he has got to have a fuel return line somewhere, but I would go with Jason on getting a fuel rail from another car with one on it. :)

Michelle
96 Eclipse Base Model
Best 14.6@93 w/60 shot

I received an email from this fellow yesterday, and have requested he give me a call on our Tech Support line to figure this out. He appears to have an early style fuel system with return line from front of car to rear, but may be in that odd zone where the cars were in transition from OBD-I to OBD-II.

grneclipse: if you have not received the email I sent yet, call me at 630-801-9065 and we will get you hooked up.

Yeah Bill,

Good luck on this one. His fuel filter and stock FPR is on the back of the car like mine as well. (OBD-2 style) On early fuel systems, the fuel filter and FPR is in the engine bay.

His car is the biggest hybrid fuel system I've seen!

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

Also even my 95' with a return line still has the shreader valve/test port on the rail.


Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon ES-I-NOS but T soon!
http://members.nbci.com/FlyEsi/home.htm
You too can have a never updated site complete with old info and dated pics!

well today I just lifted my hood, and was examining only the passenger side of the fuel rail and I noticed that there was a cap-like thing about two inches or so to the right before the end of the fuel rail...confused??? so am I....so let's see

This is the fuel rail on the passengert side and where the X is, that's where this cap like thing is (it looks like the cap off a toothpaste where you screw and open and close)

~~~> (passenge side) O--x-------------O (driver's side)

now this cap like thing is on the top side of the fuel rail, so maybe I found my fitting??? DEAR GOD TELL ME I FOUND IT, Tomorrow I will look on my driver's side and tell you guys what's on that side, BTW what the hell is the shrader thing guys> Do i just look off the end of the fuel rail and if there is a Slit there, does that mean it could be there? Thanks again all. LATER!!

hahahah... :-)

There certainly is no other reason DSM would put it there!

Unless of course they wanted to supply you with an emergency suply of toothpaste!

I'm glad you found it. You can get a tire valve stem tool or Schraeder tool at most any auto parts store for a VERY LITTLE amount.

We can just add this one to the archive and now know where they put the damn thing on some obd-2 cars!

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

LAST EDITED ON 05-Mar-01 AT 11:11 PM (PST)

Yup dude, you found it.

Just unscrew the cap, and you will find the valve under it.

Sorry I couldn't have said this earlier! I just got a chance to get on the message board now.

The funny thing is that from car-to-car (both OBD-II) the fuel rail changes. Some have the service fitting on the end and some have it sticking upwards between injectors 3 and 4.

I was talking about how funny that was a while back on the 2GNA mailing list... I found this out by accident one day while helping with an engine swap.

Guy
RS_Guy



13.9sec @ 105mph passes
w/ Blown piston rings,
on Stock Internals
at 10psi Boost....

Actually, on the 1995s, at least on mine, the service port is near injector #1 on the fuel rail (from passenger to driver side).

Where were you looking before?


No about this valve tool...
does this tool remove the valve completely or is it like a fitting with a pin that you screw over the service port?



l e o n

It removes the valve, the valve is the little thing in my pic above with the blue stripe. It is very small, save it, you'll never know when you might need it.

Michelle
96 Eclipse Base Model
Best 14.6@93 w/60 shot

was it hard to remove the valve with the tool?

There's not much room to work with where the fuel rail is located...



l e o n

Well, he looked on the far passenger side of teh fuel rail, then looked between the #3 and 4 injectors, and now he's found it all the way on the driver's side of the fuel rail.


The damn thing could be anywhere ! :-)

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

Well, looking at my rail again today!!

Where the cap is, it's closer to the passenger side between injectors 1 and 2, if I'm correct, and I'm directing this towards Michelle, Jason and RS GUY, it's a cap the size a little smaller than a dime,

Unscrew that and you see like a pin, or a valve, like a tire valve, (am i correct so far guys?)

Is that what i need to remove? and than tap into the FPR "in"?

THANKA ALL!!! I hope this will benefit other ppl with the same problem!!

That's where mine is. I thought they were all that way ?

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

hey greeneclipse, the service port is in the same place as mine!

BTW, how are you gonna 'tap' the fpr in? Do you have a tool to rip out the valve?


l e o n