having bad timing SUCKS!
AEM can gears have REALLY weak bolts and shoudl be replaced immediately
our engines are non interference (thank God ;) )
ground control coil overs fo rkoni struts really DO adjust from stock heigth to 3 inchs low
the S20G compressor SUCKS for trying to run 30 psi on a car with a higher rev limiter
devices that intercept the map sensor signal throw error codes.........not sure how to fix that yet
my car REALLY likes race gas.......like 10 hp difference at 18 psi on VP C-16
o2 sensors cat put up with a lot of stuff. they can put up with Fire, rust, cold, C-10, and 12 leaded gas........they CAN'T deal with C-16 AT ALL. ALL my o2 sensors are wasted
our cars really do run 1600 degrees at WOT under boost at 12.5:1 air fuel ratio
My timing sucks!!!!!
The Profec A boost controler kinda sucks......but a small compressor sucks even more
Autometer boost gauges are wrong.......saw it with my own eyes
400 hp and 400 lb ft of torque will spin the tires pretty hard in 3'rd and a bit in 4'th.
awd rules

here are my dyno charts. first one is the old one (from liek 3 months ago, as well tuned as I could ge tit on 1/2 C-12 1/2 93) next chart is from yesterday with abotu 1/2 C-16 1/2 93 (I know you guys hav ebeen asking to see an actual chart that broke 400 ;) )





A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on............

Jesus H. Christ... all that.... damn my car would have burnt to the ground, the engine grenaded, and the tires limped away whimpering.

Nice numbers. :thumbsup }>

Crazy sheiiittt, great job :-) Damn o2 sensors :-) Thats one fast ass car.

What boost levels were those two runs made at? Nice figures BTW, I'm very impressed :)

>devices that intercept the map sensor signal throw error
>codes.........not sure how to fix that yet

Remove the voltage clamp and use a check valve. Here's a recent discussion on a nice quality unit: http://www.2gnt.com/dcforum/DCForumID16/3787.html

>o2 sensors cat put up with a lot of stuff. they can put up
>with Fire, rust, cold, C-10, and 12 leaded gas........they
>CAN'T deal with C-16 AT ALL. ALL my o2 sensors are wasted

Are you using the stock sensors? If so, you really need to replace them w/ performace sensors. Not sure how the NGKs work, but Autometer makes a good one that I think will handle the C-16.

>our cars really do run 1600 degrees at WOT under boost at
>12.5:1 air fuel ratio

Good info... thanks :)

>The Profec A boost controler kinda sucks......but a small
>compressor sucks even more

Replace it with a different one... the Profec A is known to suck! ;)

>Autometer boost gauges are wrong.......saw it with my own
>eyes

Hmm... that's good to know too. How accurate are they up to 20 psi though?

>400 hp and 400 lb ft of torque will spin the tires pretty
>hard in 3'rd and a bit in 4'th.

<<<dreaming>>>

Nice work... those number are VERY impressive... I'd like to see more dynos... Brad, you dyno'ed yet?!?

wait wait wait, i havent even finished reading the entire first post of this discussion and i will in a second but first......are the 420a engines really NON-interference???? would somebody please verify that. i thought that it was completely the other way around, our 420a engines were interference engines, i have heard that alot of fords are non-interference. for anybody who doesnt know the difference, im a little tired to explain but lets just say that it makes a huge difference on how fast i am going to replace my timing belt hehe. i have been putting it off and putting it off, and fearing and fearing. thinking that one day my belt will snap and bing bang bong my engine beats itself to death because of an interference engine. ARE we non-interference or what???

uh yeah... the 420a is interference... ask anyone who's snapped a t-belt.

One comment on the CEL fix. It's not the FCD or a VC that causes the CEL, it's the AFC on most set-ups (Armonds & myself). If someone could come up with a fix for this it would be a GOOD thing. Thanx

Avenger EST, those are very impressive numbers. Wow!

:thumbsup

I could be wrong but I don’t think he is using an S-AFC w/ his DFI.



Way off the subject but I will hear the verdict from HRC on my DFI tomorrow.


Nice Numbers though, KEEP IT UP!

What makes you think your boost gauge is off?

hey Avenger EST man you sure must be lucky or somethin, our engines are not non-interference. go to vegas this weekend and try your luck there.

cum to vegas, what???

but ya, i mean hell ya!!! really nice #s bro... i just bought that compact tuner mag today... just to see your ride in there, and i was very impressed ;-)

good luck w/future mods...where's your timeslips at?? hehe

i want my car to be that fast =)dude u got to come rebuild my car and after a couple months i hope it will be as fast/reliable as yours hehe

Michael 99gs
Mods:
Hrc Stage 2
S-FMU
315cc injectors
Crane HI-6DI2
Greddy Type S Bov
VC-2
Road Race Catch Can
Greddy Profec B & Switch
Apexi WS Catback
Super Afc
Autometer Boost,
Egt,Tranny Temp Gauge & Cooler
Air/Fuel Light & Digital
Tokico Adjust Struts
Eibach Pro Kit Springs
Front & Rear Upper Bar
CarCraft Interior
Sound System= Bring it On

If you look at the chart you can see his boost spikes to 30psi and then falls off to what looks like around 23psi. It would make MUCH more power if it could hold the boost. My personal opinion is that the S16G is good for about 24-25psi and the S20G SHOULD be good for 28psi, but this is with it stopping at 7200rpm. The avenger runs to 7800 for those who are unaware. I say ditch the Profec A fast. good numbers anyway. How are the new axles holding up?

Oh, and for those who do not know, he has not sprayed yet. ;) That is when the numbers will be mind boggling. Everyone really needs to vote for this car. If he gets in I am making the trip to Cali with him. :)

hey if u guys come to ca (southern) we got to get a meet up then.. we need to take a ride in that beast of his =) plus if u 2 will be here for a while u guys can do a rebuld for me hehe...

Michael 99gs
Mods:
Hrc Stage 2
S-FMU
315cc injectors
Crane HI-6DI2
Greddy Type S Bov
VC-2
Road Race Catch Can
Greddy Profec B & Switch
Apexi WS Catback
Super Afc
Autometer Boost,
Egt,Tranny Temp Gauge & Cooler
Air/Fuel Light & Digital
Tokico Adjust Struts
Eibach Pro Kit Springs
Front & Rear Upper Bar
CarCraft Interior
Sound System= Bring it On

yeah I saw non interference and it got me thinking for second. I believe our engines are interference engines cuz ask evan about it...

The difference between non and interference engines is that the valves have to open and close at the power time or else the valves will crash into the pistons. non interference there will be no damage because the piston will not come in contact with the piston.

My engine was spun over during assembly and was found to be non-interference. Perhaps it's just the people that have aftermarket pistons in the motor....

BTW, awesome numbers Armond and good luck with USCC - I'm voting for ya!

Armond learned his motor is non interference the hard way. Lost the cam gear bolts. He put it back together and the car fired right up with no problems. This was before the dyno so I am pretty sure it is still working just fine.

I believe by design that the 420A is an interference design. Pretty much all high compression engines are. I would speculate the extra clearance of the piston/valves is a nice side effect of lower compression.

Well, even if they are interference, I think they will stall before any damage is done. Uless you are running at high rev. One of my cam gears came loss once and the car began to run real rough, then stalled. Thought I was screwed, but car runs fine and compresion is good.

Lower compression pistons may give enough valve relieve to prevent collision. But i know that for a fact our STOCK engines will cause bent valves if timing goes out of wack.

It doesnt even have to be at high rev. I'm fixing this guy's avenger who snapped the t-belt and bent 8 valves while at 2,500 rpm.

Nice run armond, btw. I have run c-16 in my car, and my o2 sensors are still fine. And this was STRAIGHT c-16. This was in my dyno run where i made a lil over 200fwhp (hehe HALF of your lol).

_________________
Vinnie Lima
kiku@asog.net
AIM: Kiku888
1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC"
I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC
14.7@97 mph@6psi
Proud member of the
ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the 'interference' correctly or not, but I lost 4 intake valves to a broken timing belt tensioner bracket. That sounds like interference to me :)

When the bracket went, the motor was spinning at low RPM's, and it just died. 4 valves later, it runs again. They were VERY bent too.

Clint
97 Eclipse GS

hey thanks for everyone giving their input on the interference-noninterference issue. that makes sense about the lower compression (shorter) pistons creating a non-interference environment. that is definately a HUGE bonus to running a lower compression set up. as for now, i think its time for me to go buy a timing belt this weekend and figure out the boring job all throughout next weekend. and when rebuild time comes, time for low compression.

if somethin is going down in LA and that badass eclipse and 2gnt wants to come through i'll be down there in a second. how long you think from SF, 5 hours...4 hours.. :-)?

I have had bad luck with Profec A's in the past too... The profec B in my oppinion is a lot simpler and more accurate running higher boost... And yes, autometer boost gauges arent correct, they are close... but not dead on, i have had them be off about 4-5psi before, according to other readings like the DFI and datalogging.... I sure hope i can turn some numbers like that when I get my tranny back in, that would be sweet, but I have decided for the time being that I am not gonna spray until I get an extra engine to build up, I think most of us will agree that a 400hp street car is just fine and dandy without the NOS. Good job armond, I think we have all voted for you, and for you that havent, go buy the damn mag and vote already!

Yeah, 400hp at the wheels. When comparing his cars power output to other cars, its better to think about crank power. So, he's making about 480hp/ft lbs torque at the crank. Thats 75 more HP and than a Z06 Vette, and 20 more than a Viper, and only shy 20ft lbs of torque of the 8 liter V-10. Not bad, especially considering he needs a larger turbo and hasnt used the nitrous yet. :D (I have a brand new Turbonetics T3/T04E Super 60 series compressor ball bearing turbo with a polished compressor housing collecting dust in my garage if you want something bigger. I believe it outflows the S20G.)

Are the readings from the DFI and datalogging being pulled from the same place the autometer boost gauge is getting it's boost signal from?

My boost gauge was registering 18 psi while my car was doing 20. I didn't even watch it for the higher boost runs because of this. just waited for the data printout on the dyno :-P. A 60 trim wheel has a little too much lag for my taste. the 50 trim would give me almost identical spoolup and hold boost to 30 psi........I jsut got to find a way to put that compressor on the tdo5H turbine :-P

A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on............

Yes you got 18 psi on the gauge, but where did the dyno get 20 psi from? Did the dyno get that 20 psi from the turbo or the intake manifold, where are you pulling your tap for the gauge.

Listen I am not neither fighting you statement of the gauge being incorrect or agreeing with it, I think I just need to see it before my own eyes. From those numbers you got from the dyno I am sure you guys know what your talking about and I am a ASE certified mechanic and I can justify gauges can be wrong but 9 times out of 10 its just something stupid like not being installed right. In any turbo system there is going to be pressure drop, NO matter what!! Even if it's only 1/2 psi it's still a pressure drop. But you seem smart and I am not trying to diss you. If the dyno is pulling the boost from the turbo, and you gauge is pulling from the intake manifold you intercooler and all the piping has some pressure drop.

I guess I just need to see it in person infront of my own eyes. I am having problems beleiving that autometer gauges are inaccurate. I mean NASCAR, NHRA, etc. eveything racing uses them, they use them for a reason.

I am not trying to insault you, I can see from that car you have built you know your shit, I am just having a little trouble with autometer gauges being inaccurate. No hard feelings right.

BTW that sounds like a mean bitch you got there, good job!

Armond,

Call Forced Performance in Texas and discuss possible turbo options with them. If anyone can help you with a hybrid and sort it out it would be them.

Avengers rev to 7800RPM?!?

Damn I feel cheated!

Nice run, I hope I could pull HALF what you made my next summer only with-out the turbo.


Daved has a point did you have the one guage at the turbo and one at the manifold?

Pressure drop through the intercooler will change readings.

They rev to 7200 like everyone else. Using the DFI has allowed him to remove the stock ecu fuel cut and now he is limited by the stock ecu timing cut which is 7800. Hopefully Howell can get rid of that and raise to 8200. :D

I woudl never tape pressure readings directly off the turbo because that isn't my main concern. my concern is the pressur edirectly in the intake manifold plenum. that is where "all" of my pressure readings are taken, and that is where the pressure sensor for the dyno "and" the pressure line for the gauge was taken. I have also checked several times for leaks anywher ein any of my lines or in any of the gasket surfaces or hose connections, and the only leak I have is a minor one on the throttle body shaft. fact remains that the autometer boost gauge with hard line (hince no hose flex pressure drop) read 2 lbs lower than the pressrue sensor on the dyno (which was also taken directly from the manifold).

A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on............

I really need to win that lottery and get hahn's stage V .Sweet machine you got there.