if an engine fails because of excessive boost on the stock internals is it because of repeated hi-boost abuse or just one unfortunate incident at high boost
for instance, if i run my stock internals at 7psi daily but crank it up to 10 or 11 for a track run or 0-60 test will the risk be as great as if i was running 10psi all them time or would it be less due to the 7pis daily driving?
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

LAST EDITED ON 26-Feb-01 AT 03:47 PM (PST)

Dude, I dont want to try and scare you, but all it takes is one bad situation and there will be a oppertunity for failure. Dark one has posted he has gotton away with hitting high boost levels a few times on stock internals. I was not so furtunate, my motor blew. We (I) dont know for sure yet why, but here is the deal.
There is very little room for error when it comes to boost levels and stock internals, but if by chance you throw in a failed fuel pump or any part of your fuel system in the mix, and you can kiss your motor good bye. HRC say's 7-9, and I am sure there is reason they (Bill) say's that. You might be able to hit 12 on race gas, but I hear you in one breath worried about it being safe to add a turbo, and then the next minute you seem to want to push the envelope by finding out the max boost we can handle. I would say this, if you dont think you can stay within the limits of what our motors can handle (7-9 psi), I would say maybe intertaine the thought of doing upgraded internals first, then add a turbo later to the power house. That way you could boost all you wanted to. :)
I truely agree with "Thunder" when he states that sooner or later all people how go turbo will eventualy end up building up their internals. Its not a matter of "if", but more like "when". Lets face it our motor is and was not designed for turbo, so proceed with caution! :)

http://smkn95eclipsemwc.homestead.com/mainpage.html

well i see what your saying but my "one breath" was actually over 21 hours of research. i didnt go to sleep last night, i was online from 7pm last night until 4pm this afternoon, stopping only to go to class from 8-9am. i found out so much in this past day that my brain has turned to mush and i cant think anymore, but i can still state that i now for sure want to go turbo. you know how it is, think about something until you become obsessed. but i wasnt asking about pushing max boost either, i just wondered why failures occured (one event or compounded abuse) and you answered my question exactly. i plan to go with 7psi intercooled even though hahn and star both say i could do 9/10psi respectively on stock innards. i may do the internals after that, or i may get unlucky and blow up my motor again, thus forcing me to upgrade. i wasnt expecting to get pistons, rings and rods for under 1300, so its a definite possibility. how much should i expect to pay (min and max) for satan to install pistons and rods? over $500?
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

lol :) please tell me you are jokeing! Satan wont even touch your car with a turbo installed, not to mention the fact that you are lowered they woulndt be able to get it in the garage ( just guessing) You have jumped sides to the light bro, you no longer need Satan. lol, now you need a machine shop to do the motor building. I am in the process right now, in fact tomarrow me and thunder start the process of pulling my motor. So far my calculations are around $700 in labor for machineing and $1600 in parts. Sorry if I got a little of the subject on the last reply, but I just mentioned what it was sounding to me. My bad! but I hope I helped with some of your questions. Good luck!
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!MWC




http://smkn95eclipsemwc.homestead.com/mainpage.html

For Satan to install AND if you have a hook up look at $1500+

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

hook up?

what u mean


l e o n

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

LAST EDITED ON 27-Feb-01 AT 00:03 AM (PST)

error

LAST EDITED ON 27-Feb-01 AT 00:42 AM (PST)

Hahaha $500 to install internals by satan (sounds more like jesus). Count on $500 to remove and reinstall the engine, about $100-200 to assemble the short block plus whatever machining, gaskets and fluids that are required. These aren't satan prices. Even if they would do it, double all the figures and dont be suprised if your forged pistons happen to running stock clearances (cause we know how they like to keep everything stock). I just read your post about getting an estimate from the dealer for installing a turbo kit also. You must have the worlds greatest dealers near you cause only one mechanic at one dealer I know of even wants to touch anything not stock (and he's a young guy who hooks up cars himself and does most of the their eclipse service/repairs).


Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon ES-I-NOS but T soon!
http://members.nbci.com/FlyEsi/home.htm
You too can have a never updated site complete with old info and dated pics!

i didnt know any machining had to be done to change the postons and rods. what has to be done? so how much did you guys pay for everything to get the pstons and rods swapped? dont you HAVE to replace the rings with JE's?
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

oh yeah, and this is starting to make me one to not do the internals at all and stay at about 7psi, im looking at 1500 or more to do all this shit? plus if i change the bottom end and add a turbo i basically cannot get satan to fix my car anymore, and i dont knw any other good shops around here
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

The only machining required is boring the block so there isn't a whole bunch of machining. You dont have to do that if your block is in excellent condition and you order cutsom or standard bore pistons (if you want to use Hahn JE you'll have to bore). Since the JE's are oversize you have to use oversize rings. Even with stock bore you might not be able to use stock rings. When i had my pistons made they wanted figures and measurements that I had never heard of before and I had to contact the ring maker. So its best to use the rings intended for the pistons. I dont know how much it cost to bore but I cant imagine it being very expensive. Some engine builders aren't keen on using used cranks either.


Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon ES-I-NOS but T soon!
http://members.nbci.com/FlyEsi/home.htm
You too can have a never updated site complete with old info and dated pics!

...are $650 but their 8.8:1 at HRC are under $500.

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

actually MWC i wasnt kidding!
anyway, ive checked around and gotten some opinions from some people but now im here to get the final word from as many of your guys as i can on these questions:
1-what are your suggestions for daily driven boost pressure on the stock internals? i have heard anywhere from 7-10 so im just wondering your opinions
2-can i boost any higher by simply upgrading to 440s and an AFC on the Star kit (does adding these make it safer to boost higher)
3-what kind of times do you think i will be running with the stage two set at 7psi intercooled, with the AFX pulley, muffler, and greddy typeS BOV, with 121 pounds of weight reduction?
4-what psi do you think i would have to run with the above listed things to break into 13s?
on another note, have you guys found those online quarter mile and horsepower calculators to be accurate? i dont have a track to run on, (and am fearful of track runs on higher boost anyway) so i want to use those calculators to make my estimated claims till i can get around to running it.
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

i really want to know if i should boost 7 on the stock internals cause that would put me right at about 300hp@the flywheel (232@wheels with my other mods) and are we supposed to change the heat range of the plugs with a turbo?
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

Well this may be out of the realm of the question but I wouldn't use 440cc injectors and AFC on the star kit unless your going to change the regulator to something a lot less than 12:1 or get an adjustable one. Anyway injectors won't change the amount of boost you can run on stock internals. Injectors would allow you to run higher boost without leaning out but that wont make the internals any stronger. With internals, just injectors and AFC (and the proper regulator) would allow you to run a significant amount of more boost. As concerned as you appear to be I'd run it at 6psi. Doesn't sound like much but I'm sure you'll be more than happy until you can decide what direction you really want to go.


Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon ES-I-NOS but T soon!
http://members.nbci.com/FlyEsi/home.htm
You too can have a never updated site complete with old info and dated pics!

thanks stan...but i dont know what any of the fuel regulator ratios mean...if someone else can help me with that or with my other questions, please do
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

12 additional psi of fuel pressure for each psi of boost. That seems to be fine on the Star kit at low boost (up to 9psi or so). Any higher with the stock injectors and the fuel pump may not be able to maintain high enough fuel pressure to maintain a safe ratio (12:1 would already be too rich with stock injectors but the fuel pump cant maintain that 12:1 ratio at higher boost which works out just right to a point: 9-10psi). But with 440cc injectors and a 12:1 ratio you'll be running extremely rich to the point where an AFC isn't the best option. I heard someone say they switched to a 4:1 regulator when they purchased larger injectors (plus AFC). I dont know which fuel pump this applies to with the star kit (I'm not sure if there have been some changes in which fuel pump it comes with).


Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon ES-I-NOS but T soon!
http://members.nbci.com/FlyEsi/home.htm
You too can have a never updated site complete with old info and dated pics!

thanks again stan
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

This might help:
Your stock injectors are 230cc. Your Stage2 turbo kit will be running a 12:1 FMU, and an upgraded fuel pump. Now the absolute maximum boost you can run with this setup is 10psi. This is the point were the stock injectors just cannot meet the fuel demand.
So to be safe I would not boost 10psi with my stock injectors.
However, if you do want to crank up the boost to 10psi "safely"
you can do the following:

Get some RC engineering 320cc injectors : http://www.rceng.com
And get a 10:1 FMU

With this setup you will actually be running more fuel, and less fuel pressure. (Very good !)

..So with you stock Stage2 setup stay away from boosting in the double digits !!

Good luck with your project !