Ok folks, I've decided to get a Stage 1 kit. Now, I've heard mixed reviews about both kits. Now, I want to know who here on the board has what kit and the pro's and con's of each. Here in VA, we have to get emissions testing done. So, I know both kits aren't certified, but can they both pass the sniffer tests? Also, I know HRC offers the tech support that Star doesn't. So, which should I go with? If it helps, I've got a 96 Dodge Avenger I4 5spd. Thanks folks...

Jeremy

to me the HRC is the way to go, I haven't heard any complaint about them and they are pushing the best power from our cars

Im not positive if Stars stage I comes with a t3/t4 but if you were only going to run a stage 1 @ 5 psi I think the obvious choice would be HRC because the 5 psi will come quicker with the 16g and at that low of number I don't think you would see much of any advantage of running a big turbo like the t3/t4.

Hahn Racecraft-- Super16G turbo. Spools faster, not as much high end power as Star, but reaching full boost at around 3000 rpms. Great tech support.

Star Performance-- T3/T4 turbo, bigger than the Super16G turbo, takes longer to spool, yet offers more top end power. Not sure when full boost is hit, but it is much later than the HRC kit.

Basically what do you want? Quicker off the line with less high end, or a bit slower to spool up and then a more powerful top end? I'm not saying te HRC top end is slow in any way, just that the star should pull a bit more.

Personally, I'm going with HRC, quicker spool, because I'm not aiming for extrememly high hp numbers....It's your call.

sorry.. your subject line offends me, like everyone here doesn't give smart educated opinions or something.

If you want to be smart and educated, read all the turbo forums, including the archives like i did.

Go to www.turbogs.com and read about the star
go to www.hahnracecraft.com and read about HRC.

I (and others) post alot of info about turbos.

See what it says under my name? yea, member since end of november. If i can learn all i did about turbos in 3 months, then you can too.

Sorry, i just hate the way that subject line was phrased, like we OWE you the answer or something. Offends me even more when the answers are right in front of you.

and ps, i'd go with HRC if you just want something for daily driving.

1) Faster spool up for city/stoplights
2) Good tech support in case something messed up--easier to maintain.
3) Very detailed instructions.

But if you want a star, i have two friends who might be taking their kits off too. we're in maryland, so we're not that far off.

But seriously, better watch how you phrase things.

Yeah Im offended. Wait, its the internet. Dino, please hold me. I am going to cry.

:)

We offer good comments, we havn't become total animals yet like a few boards out there.

uhhh.. jeff?

Just dont be disappointed when you sacrifice a little straight line thunder for faster spool up and driveability(I know what HRC's site says stage 1 times are and some people hate the truth but there are several people actually running 14.6-14.9 with star stage 1's, one with stock exhaust and less than 5lbs of boost). For emmisions you'd have to weld the dump tube into the downpipe on the Star kit and do nothing with the HRC. All this spool up talk may have you believe it=faster but what it really= is more fun and low end drivability. Spool up is not an issue from a stop unless you race and shift under 6000tpms @ which point you arent trying to win. automatic another story without a custom stall you need a turbo that spools down low).

Ok, first off, I didn't mean anything offensive by my title and I didn't want it taken that way. I just meant I didn't want any BS or my post to be bastardized. I've got the $$$ and I'm torn between the 2 kits. HRC costs a little more than the Star, and I can get the Star at a great price (~$2100 w/ BOV and some extras). Now, the down-side to the Star that I see is that it doesn't have the tech support that HRC has, but the HRC's components (ie. Cartech FMU and FCD) I hear don't hold up as well as the Star's Vortech FMU and the VC-2. Any other comments folks?

Jeremy

I think that HRC is a good kit for someone new to the turbo world. They give you an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and pressure gauge. They also tell you what pressures you should be running. This gives you some flexiblilty in tuning and gives you a visual reminder that "yes, your car is tuned right". The Star comes with a non-adjustable regulator, no pressure gauge, and no numbers to go by (as far as I know). You just put it on and assume that everything is OK. HRC's instructions have be very helpful for me when I want to try a new fuel system (I've been through many). But HRC isn't perfect. Many people, including me, have had problems with the fuel pressure regulator. It seems to vary its fuel pressure depending on whether it is cold or hot (+/- 10 psi). I found that unacceptable and got a Vortech S-FMU. Otherwise, I have no major complaints with the kit.

BTW...what part of VA are you in? We don't have emissions in SW or SE VA (my homes).


Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...

I'm actually going to school here in Norfolk @ ODU, but I'm from Manassas. SE VA, ehh? Ok, not to get off topic now, so the HRC is the better kit in MOST people's eyes, correct?

Jeremy

is stage 1 all u really want? jess about 40-50whp more?

if so then jess go with NOS seriously. i know u want a turbo kit but looking at ur concerns (emmissions) i think NOS would be way more beneficial in the wallet and emmissions


96RS ~ full 99GS Special Edit. body conversion, aem cai, greddy header, greddy sp exhaust, afx pulley, B&M SS, magecores & NGKs, S-AFC, A/F and Volt guages, Sparco Torino Seat, illuminas, prokits, ingalls camber, gunmetal GS rims, ST Sways, STBs, lower rear tie bar, Sony Xplode head, Xplode 10 disk, Boston Components, 2 Kenwood amps, 12" MTX sub, a shit load more.


97GSX ~ 18psi~ Ported/Clipped 10 degrees Frank 2 w/47trim, Ported Exh. housing, Tial 40mm External Wastegate with discharge tube, Ported O2 housing, 3" downpipe, 3" Straight Pipe, Apex N1, fake cat, K&N FIPK, Greddy IC Piping, Type S bov, S-AFC, Profec B, Greddy TT, Slimline Fan, RRE Catch Can, Greddy Big FMIC, ND 660s, Walboro 190lph, ACT 2600 w/street disk, clutch SS line, lighten flywheel, removed cruise control line, Greddy EGT, Coolant, Boost Gauges, motor mount inserts, Magnecor & plugs, greddy oil cap, greddy radiator cap, and free mods. To all the haters _|_ tia

I want to go with turbo because I EVENTUALLY plan to upgrade and run higher boost levels. I only want Stage 1 for the time being until I can upgrade my other stuff, does that make sense?

Jeremy

Jeez, how many times has this post been posted? (I posted it at one point.)

Seriously though, from what you're saying, I think you want the HRC. Yes, the HRC Super16G is a little smaller, but unless you plan on making over 400WHP (keep in mind internals, fuel system) you'll deffinately want the benifits of a faster spool-up.

My HRC stage 2 passed Maryland emissions. MD emissions are pretty strict. More so than VA.

I found this post deeeep in the archives. It was so good I saved it.

Read it if you get some time. Its a great thread on Star Vs. HRC.

http://63.99.108.81/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=553&forum=DCForumID16

Logic, that site is money. Thank you!

Jeremy

I agree with everything in the above posts. Make sure and pay attention to them all b/c they've all posted nice comments. The only thing I'd like to add is that I've had mine on for almost 23k miles, turboing every stop light to stop light and hitting full boost all the time. I don't believe in grandma driving yet. That's why I bought the damn turbo in the first place.

One more point, never buy anything that costs over $2k with a state of mind of saving $200.

wow, that was a good link.

I hope we've helped you decide. and seriously, in the end, if you still don't know, just flip a coin. Either way, you can't go wrong. =)

and jeff, hell yea i'm going to cry.

I'm leaning towards the Star mainly cuz I want to put it on my Credit Card, but Bill only takes up to $1000 on Credit Card, the rest has to be a check or money order. On the other hand, spending $2000 to save $200 isa good point. I'm sooo torn. My main concern is just the emissions and longevity of either kit. 23K miles boosted is a HELLUVA lot of miles! I've got 115,000 right now and everything runs tighter than a virgin on prom night. If yall were me, what would you do? Star or HRC? I plan on keeping this car for a while and upping the boost, eventually. Right now, Stage 1 is all I want.

Jeremy

for the record, i'm offended too. its those darn ASOG members. i dont like them.... hmmm, wait a tick. yea, i'm just playing

in my opinion it basically comes down to what you want. whichever way you go, you're going to get power hungry and upgrade. All the pros/cons for each kit will not matter any longer b/c the parts have been replaced.... or something like that.

Hey jeremy, hahn doesnt like to use the CC, but they WILL.

I payed for my stage 1 thru them with plastic. I spoke with Lori Hahn to get everything oked. they just have you sign and fax them back this paper that says that you are indeed the owner of the CC, or something like that , i dont remember. if the CC issue is the only reason ur going with star, talk with Hahn, let em know u know people who have used the card, etc etc. theyll do it ;)

Ok so i'll jump in the bandwagon and say I'm offended as well ;)

Dont listen to Mr. Fuji, he's very sensitive indeed. Glacius and I had to feed him with a spoon the other day so that he wouldnt get jealous that glacius got a turbo kit ;) ok j/k j/k

anyways,

"One more point, never buy anything that costs over $2k with a state of mind of saving $200. " <<--- Great point.

I am inclined to HRC kits maily because i've done a god awful amount of installs for these kits, so I am biased.

But, the emissions thing is an issue for you. I highly suggest not running external wastegate unless you get it plumbed back to the downpipe. Which in my opinion defeats the purpose. Well i never saw a purpose of running external until you got MAD pressure going through (besides being able to say you run external).

ANYWAYS, i suggest you go with HRC. Less headaches, and if you need help, lots of people can give you a hand (including HRC). Regardless what kit you go with, the real questions remain:

Are you ready for a turbo kit?

Are you ready to maintain a turbo n/a car?

Are you ready to deal with spending $$$ on maintaining it?

Are you ready to deal with initial headaches of a turbo kit install?

Are you ready to spend $$$ to replace the Cartech when you get sick of tuning it every time you start your car?

Are you ready to be able to spend the $$ to rebuild your engine as soon as it blows (I hope you are not thinking that your 115k mile engine wont break with a turbo kit, because you'd be kidding yourself)


If i were YOU, spend the money to rebuild your engine first. Then turbo it. You'll thank me in the long run.

My .0478567298327 cents.

Minus the .0890329753275.

_________________
Vinnie Lima
kiku@asog.net
AIM: Kiku888
1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC"
I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC
14.7@97 mph@6psi
Proud member of the
ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew

hey JasonEsi_T, have you had any problems (blown engine, dependability, etc) since you went turbo? also, are you on stock internals? i've been debating turbo for a while, i just couldn't afford to blow my engine anytime soon.