ive started saving for hahn stage 2 turbo and upgraded internals/motor work---my question I know everyone says lower your compression for boost,I want to get the 12.1 pistons and then run turbo and have me a smokin fast venge, I know I will have to get the fuel tuning perfect to avoid detonation but is there anyone running high compression and turbo on here?? Does anyone see problems doing this?? any info/suggestions would be appreciated..

BOOM!


96RS ~ full 99GS Special Edit. body conversion, aem cai, greddy header, greddy sp exhaust, afx pulley, B&M sS, magecores & NGKs, S-AFC, A/F and Volt guages, Sparco Torino Seat, illuminas, prokits, ingalls camber, gunmetal GS rims, ST Sways, STBs, lower rear tie bar, Sony Xplode head, Xplode 10 disk, Boston Components, 2 Kenwood amps, 12" MTX sub, a shit load more.


97GSX ~ 18psi~ Ported/Clipped 10 degrees Frank 2 w/47trim, Ported Exh. housing, Tial 40mm External Wastegate with discharge tube, Ported O2 housing, 3" downpipe, 3" Straight Pipe, Apex N1, fake cat, K&N FIPK, Greddy IC Piping, Type S bov, S-AFC, Profec B, Greddy TT, Slimline Fan, RRE Catch Can, Greddy Big FMIC, ND 660s, Walboro 190lph, ACT 2600 w/street disk, clutch SS line, lighten flywheel, removed cruise control line, Greddy EGT, Coolant, Boost Gauges, motor mount inserts, Magnecor & plugs, greddy oil cap, greddy radiator cap, and free mods. To all the haters _|_ tia

As you might know, Stan's is the highest compression'ed turbo car that has been on the 2gnt.com board (@ 10.5CR). However, If you examine Gary Howell's recent post and information that I think has been posted on the main 2gnt section, that may provide you with some more information.

(and Kory...thanks for the great reply...I'm sure that's about as helpful as an extra hole in the head)

I second that.

I'm tired of deleteing posts like this, Kory. It's a waste of space, time, and precious processing power. Stop, or leave. I'm tired of it.

From what info I have gathered from Gary Howell's posts, you can run 12.5:1 compression at about 4 psi on pump gas. With the high compression the turbo will spool up quickly and you will be making some nice power. Go to the track and put in race gas and turn up the boost and you will be REALLY fast. I wouldn't do this without an intercooler on the turbo system though and I would also get larger injectors just to be safe.



current status unknown

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Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Drop in K&N Filter and open airbox
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
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Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

I'm planning on running 9.5:1 when i rebuild, and 12-16 psi.:-)

So ,is that the big factor fuel tuning. . but yeah i would like to run 8-9lbs 12.1 compression and it will be with a hahn stage 2 kit.. any other factors/problems i might encounter.. I know most of the people on here only think that you can run a turbo by lowering compression but the big guys are raising compression...

I think 12:1 compression on a turbo car that isn't racing against Lisa Kubo and Sean Glazer is just nuts. I wouldn't have been running 10.6 if I wasn't already stuck with it but it held up to 10psi without ever a problem. Those guys running 11 and 12:1 compression race cars aren't looking for fast spool up, they never see below 5000rpms, they just want maximum cyl pressure. They also have full engine management systems and most important of all THEY ALSO BREAK and can afford to repair it. High compression also requires a huge turbo to keep intake temps down and cyl pressure reasonable at low rpms. Small turbo and high compression dont mix so there goes your fast spool up. You want spool up spend you money on a high dollar ball bearing turbo (such as garrett Ballistic/HKS GT series) and time selecting the right size.

Also note they are all race cars with extremely high or low compression. Dont try and treat your daily drivers like a bastard, no love trailer queen, your car has to survive things they never see (like running more than 10sec at a time, staying in one piece more than a 10 race season, hot weather cruising, octane lower than a genious's IQ). The only turbo street cars I know of with 11:1 compression and beyond are turbo'd Celica GTS, S2000's and M3s that came from the factory that way (again not by choice but being dealt the card).

thanks guys, im gonna have to think about it, but definitely will be at least 10.5 compression (gotta do something to make up for having an automatic)

do i really have to explain more than BOOM? use common sense high compression and big boost = boom. have others had success? yes! r u like the others? no! has stan had problems? yes! has stan sold his turbo kit? yes! nuff said? yes! and for the haters eff off.

boom in itself is a str8 up and clear reply.


96RS ~ full 99GS Special Edit. body conversion, aem cai, greddy header, greddy sp exhaust, afx pulley, B&M sS, magecores & NGKs, S-AFC, A/F and Volt guages, Sparco Torino Seat, illuminas, prokits, ingalls camber, gunmetal GS rims, ST Sways, STBs, lower rear tie bar, Sony Xplode head, Xplode 10 disk, Boston Components, 2 Kenwood amps, 12" MTX sub, a shit load more.


97GSX ~ 18psi~ Ported/Clipped 10 degrees Frank 2 w/47trim, Ported Exh. housing, Tial 40mm External Wastegate with discharge tube, Ported O2 housing, 3" downpipe, 3" Straight Pipe, Apex N1, fake cat, K&N FIPK, Greddy IC Piping, Type S bov, S-AFC, Profec B, Greddy TT, Slimline Fan, RRE Catch Can, Greddy Big FMIC, ND 660s, Walboro 190lph, ACT 2600 w/street disk, clutch SS line, lighten flywheel, removed cruise control line, Greddy EGT, Coolant, Boost Gauges, motor mount inserts, Magnecor & plugs, greddy oil cap, greddy radiator cap, and free mods. To all the haters _|_ tia

is there anyone that has put a turbo on that has not had one single problem? NO I doubt it... Does that mean that it shouldn't be done if some have problems? NO.... Should I forget my dreams/plans cause Kory says it can't be done? FUNK THAT.. :P

I feel the love...its all warm and fuzzy :-D

There is a guy here in Tampa running his 11:1 compression S2000 at 8 psi on 93 octane with no detonation problems. He pulled low 12's at the track with 2.6 60' times! 2.0L S2000, 11:1 compression stock 240 HP to the Flywheel which is around 210 HP to the Wheels. With the turbo kit on the car and before he had the 3 inch exhaust he put down around 360 HP to the Wheels at 8 psi!

current status unknown

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Drop in K&N Filter and open airbox
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it yet so I will. You will need good fuel tuning but I think you WILL need good timing too. Something with alot of timing retard.

12:1 is just too crazy. I would think 9:1 if not stock compression will be ideal. You gatta give some room to it, with perfect fuel timing tuning you should have no problem. What if the weather changes, it gets colder. Theoretically, You will get more air which means leaner fuel mixture, not good. Also, 4psi of boost, there is hardly a turbo will run 4 psi efficientlly. Just a thought.

by all means... try it if that is ur goal... i give u respect.

i am jess saying the way to go is lower compression and higher boost. that is proven and tried. if u want to constantly have problems... go for it. and that s2k that is running boost... let's see how long it lasts.


96RS ~ full 99GS Special Edit. body conversion, aem cai, greddy header, greddy sp exhaust, afx pulley, B&M sS, magecores & NGKs, S-AFC, A/F and Volt guages, Sparco Torino Seat, illuminas, prokits, ingalls camber, gunmetal GS rims, ST Sways, STBs, lower rear tie bar, Sony Xplode head, Xplode 10 disk, Boston Components, 2 Kenwood amps, 12" MTX sub, a shit load more.


97GSX ~ 18psi~ Ported/Clipped 10 degrees Frank 2 w/47trim, Ported Exh. housing, Tial 40mm External Wastegate with discharge tube, Ported O2 housing, 3" downpipe, 3" Straight Pipe, Apex N1, fake cat, K&N FIPK, Greddy IC Piping, Type S bov, S-AFC, Profec B, Greddy TT, Slimline Fan, RRE Catch Can, Greddy Big FMIC, ND 660s, Walboro 190lph, ACT 2600 w/street disk, clutch SS line, lighten flywheel, removed cruise control line, Greddy EGT, Coolant, Boost Gauges, motor mount inserts, Magnecor & plugs, greddy oil cap, greddy radiator cap, and free mods. To all the haters _|_ tia

and that s2k that is
>running boost... let's see how long it lasts.



I'll let you know when he blows!



current status unknown

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Drop in K&N Filter and open airbox
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

Kory I sure would like to know what compression related problems I'm having/have had. The only problems I had when I sold the turbo kit are electrical and minor. I sold the turbo kit because it was the only way I could get a reasonable amount of cash for a new car without having to sell my 2GNT (getting a turbo is easier than purchasing another 2GNT with all the work I've done on it). My engine is still in one piece and will be turbo'd again with the same compression.

What problems?

i mean look at the probs u had... and u didnt even go high compression so imagine the headaches that guy's gonna have


96RS ~ full 99GS Special Edit. body conversion, aem cai, greddy header, greddy sp exhaust, afx pulley, B&M sS, magecores & NGKs, S-AFC, A/F and Volt guages, Sparco Torino Seat, illuminas, prokits, ingalls camber, gunmetal GS rims, ST Sways, STBs, lower rear tie bar, Sony Xplode head, Xplode 10 disk, Boston Components, 2 Kenwood amps, 12" MTX sub, a shit load more.


97GSX ~ 18psi~ Ported/Clipped 10 degrees Frank 2 w/47trim, Ported Exh. housing, Tial 40mm External Wastegate with discharge tube, Ported O2 housing, 3" downpipe, 3" Straight Pipe, Apex N1, fake cat, K&N FIPK, Greddy IC Piping, Type S bov, S-AFC, Profec B, Greddy TT, Slimline Fan, RRE Catch Can, Greddy Big FMIC, ND 660s, Walboro 190lph, ACT 2600 w/street disk, clutch SS line, lighten flywheel, removed cruise control line, Greddy EGT, Coolant, Boost Gauges, motor mount inserts, Magnecor & plugs, greddy oil cap, greddy radiator cap, and free mods. To all the haters _|_ tia

I think Stan had a bunch of those little problems though, didnt his car have like 140,000 miles on it?

160K miles and not one having anything to do with compression. I had some wires that the EGR pipe melted a few times. Possibly related to turbo heat alhough it happens on NA cars. I blew a few tranny's and slipped a few clutches over the yrs. I drove that damn turbo at 10psi EVERYDAY from the day I got an intercooler to the day I took the turbo off so how can you relate my problems to compression.

My problems were due to the POS car itself. The engine is the only thing that holds up. over 2 yrs and and 53K miles on the rebuilt engine.

Well dispite what Kory thinks, Im gonna go ahead and get the stage 2 with 12.1 pistons/rods and tune..tune...tune till this thing eats v8 for dinner, im sick of having a slow ass car, I got smoked by a grand am yesterday and that will happen no more, and Im just trying to be different/origional.. the reason i got my car is cause I wanted to learn alot more about cars, before I started modding my car, I thought a car was too hard to work on because of the computer in it.. now Ive done all the mods in my sig myself and am ready to start tackling the internal modifications, ive been reading this and asog for a little over two years now and have learned quite a bit about turbos/tuning..etc.. and after gary's post about compression I thought why not give it a try, i plan to have this car at least another 5-10 years, i love it.. and the ladies love the looks of the avenger (which is better looking than the eclipse if you ask me). SO plan on seeing me at the tracks smoking everyone later this year early next year..

I just wish someone would have told me earlier that a 420A takes alot more money to make fast all motor than just by adding a turbo. I would have bought the turbo before i dumped money in to all the mods Ive got that will end up being replaced by the turbo kit anyway..

I think all kory is trying to say is play it safe. I'm sure running high compression pistons with a turbo will net more overall power...

but with low compression pistons and the proper tuning... wouldn't it sound alot more intimidating when you say you're running 20 psi on pump gas (which i believe can be done on a daily driving basis), instead of saying 7 psi (on 12.1:1 pistons)?

"its not how many psi's you say your running, its who wins" sorry kind of a F&F saying

and actually i would rather say yep turbo'd with 12.1 compression, o-ringed block ,methanol for fuel and watch jaws drop }>

Go for it but when you get beat by a guy with 9:1 compression and 15psi dont say you weren't warned in advanced.

nahh man dont get me wrong... innovation is good... do wat u think is best. im just stating wat is my opinion :)

best of luck and hope u do succeed and kick some arse


96RS ~ full 99GS Special Edit. body conversion, aem cai, greddy header, greddy sp exhaust, afx pulley, B&M sS, magecores & NGKs, S-AFC, A/F and Volt guages, Sparco Torino Seat, illuminas, prokits, ingalls camber, gunmetal GS rims, ST Sways, STBs, lower rear tie bar, Sony Xplode head, Xplode 10 disk, Boston Components, 2 Kenwood amps, 12" MTX sub, a shit load more.


97GSX ~ 18psi~ Ported/Clipped 10 degrees Frank 2 w/47trim, Ported Exh. housing, Tial 40mm External Wastegate with discharge tube, Ported O2 housing, 3" downpipe, 3" Straight Pipe, Apex N1, fake cat, K&N FIPK, Greddy IC Piping, Type S bov, S-AFC, Profec B, Greddy TT, Slimline Fan, RRE Catch Can, Greddy Big FMIC, ND 660s, Walboro 190lph, ACT 2600 w/street disk, clutch SS line, lighten flywheel, removed cruise control line, Greddy EGT, Coolant, Boost Gauges, motor mount inserts, Magnecor & plugs, greddy oil cap, greddy radiator cap, and free mods. To all the haters _|_ tia

Really... running higher compression and lower boost and running lower compression with higher boost is the same thing in the eyes of yer engine. Its just a different means of getting the same result. The added bonus of goin with higher compression is that a smaller turbo can create more horses than normal = more bang for the buck. Good luck with that project.

Keep in mind that 12:1 compression is REALLY high even for an n/a engine. If you really want to run 12:1 (skrilla's stock head gasket only lasted 20 minutes at that compression), then I would FiRST get the car running goog with that high compression. Then, when it's actually running ok, try to turbo it. If you do it all at once, I think it will blow right away unless you are an experienced tuner and have an engine management system or other means of adjusting everything.

Skrilla got high compression by milling the shit out of the head not by using hi compression pistons. That would have something to do with the life of the gasket.


______________________________
current status unknown

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Drop in K&N Filter and open airbox
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

I guess I don't understand why you want such high compression with lower boost. Auto cars don't NEED high compression to be fast. Thats what the turbo is there for in the first place.

Good luck, and I hope you don't blow up. My car's EGTs with factory 9.6 compression pistons would top out at close to 1600 degrees with just 7psi. I can't imagine 12:1 compression with the same amount of boost or more. Just doesn't make sense. You can go just as fast with lower compression and more boost. But do what you want.

The added bonus of goin with
>higher compression is that a smaller turbo can create more
>horses than normal = more bang for the buck. Good luck with
>that project.

A smaller turbo and high compression is the quickest way to increase intake temps and reduce the safety margin . Any gains from compression would likely be cancelled from inefficiency and heat using a smaller than normally optimal turbo.

usually its the other way around. You can use a bigger turbo with high compression and still spool reasonably fast because of the added exhaust energy from high compression while reaping the top end benefits of a big turbo