I merely tried to be non-confrontational, non-biased and informative in my posts but 4g63 guys are so arrogant, they have no freak'in idea. People here have posted before things such as "we're all dsm's, so we should all get along.." If only it were that nice. If only 420a's were thought to have any merit amongst them.

Here's a taste:
"The 420a is a poor copy of the 4G63."

Oh well, take a look for yourself. I give up. We better show up at the Shootout.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6125


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

All they know is the 4g63. While you might be non-confrontational and easygoing about it, i am no such thing. I think the 2g 4g63 is a piece of shit. Any motor so badly constructed that it will destroy itself within 10k miles of hard driving should never have been put into production, period, and these jokers, (albeit that all they know is the 4g) are just trying to be defensive about thier investment as they know it is flawed, and that there is nothing they can do about it.

Anyway ... Sorry to rant :-)

They'll get a good look at it when the ShootOut comes. i wish i could make it. You do have to give them some credit, though. Some of them do have quite fast cars. (even tho mine will still be fast in 30,000 miles and their's will be either junked or rebuilt several times)

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

LAST EDITED ON 30-Jan-01 AT 03:36 PM (PST)

Maybe the guy with the star kit didn't know how to drive. I know the first time I ran at the track I ran 15's until I relearned how to launch my car.

Ray
96 Eclipse Base Model
Best 14.6@93 w/60 shot

You guys see the post HRC put at the end? Check it out!

John
john99rs@hotmail.com
http://johnseclipse.homestead.com

but it is true...the star system's fuel system isn't very sound...get bigger injectors, and then we are talking =)


l e o n

I tell you guys, no respect!! No credit or nothing, just put downs as always. But HRC backed us up. I tell you guys, HRC is a cool company. They have always helped me out when I call, but the fact that there here on the board helping us out with questions and backing us up on another board, HATS OFF TO HRC!!

I like HRC, but i don't like the way they tear apart the Star system. The star system has it's good points, and its bad points. Other than the FMU is adjustable on the HRC, i don't see what the big difference is. I have not seen my walbro pump lean out at 9 lbs. of boost. so maybe that 1 lb. will do it. I don't know..maybe they are right their mitsu turbo is better, which for a street application it is.

I don't know. I know their kit is better researched, but i like my FMIC, i like my piping setup better, i like not having a plastic BOV, I like my 2.5" DP, and i like my cheaper price.

Sorry HRC, You guys have helped us tremendously, but i don't like the downplay that you give the star kit.


jason
95 GS turbo

That was me who ran a 15.4...and i wrote my reply to that thread on DSM talk..and ohh yeah..boostedv8killer (my friend) go round and round on who's car is faster. He gets me off the line no matter what...but then again, he has a T-25 that spools instantly...get him on the highway though, and i can pull on him, and that is at 6 lbs. of boost, and a most likely slipping clutch.

so ... who knows..everyone is stubborn on what the build. I would personally rather have the proven ways and options to build a 4g63 with the reliabilty of a 420A.

jason
95 GS turbo

Gee, guys, yer making me blush! Don't thank me, I just love a heated discussion, that's all, especially when I can cause a little controversy over a subject I am passionate about.

No offense to those who have purchased kits from other manufacturers. I just take the opportunity to correct what I feel are mis-representations of superior quality or capability. I have worked very hard to make our products superior and just cannot stay quiet when statements are made to the contrary: I try to only comment when someone else has raised a particular point. Some of the misinformation I refer to has been passed around these boards for some time, and it's time the facts were known by all.

Although our side mount and standard downpipe are mid-12 second capable items, we also offer FMIC and DP options, more money but clearly superior quality components (scan the DSM boards for comments on the APEXi FMIC and HRC downpipes).

Our 3000GT BOV is designed for a 300HP OEM application and has more flow capacity than the ancient model BOV in the other kit (just cause it sez HKS doesn't make it superior, this is a tiny valve by current standards). We will also upgrade the BOV should a customer request.

You will not see posts from people who can't get our pipes to fit.

Price? Ah, the hot potato....stay tuned!

Sorry to bring this up HRC, but your pipes don't fit with people having ABS...but of course you are working on that to fix it! :)



l e o n

Jason ESI-T, all I have to say is-NICE-

Good job dude, I sincerely think you did a good job of representing Team2GNT. As far as my personal views of the two engines I also feel that the 4G-63T is a POS. All the engine is, is a thick piece of steel and iron using seriously robust parts to survive in modern technology. I feel the engine is outclassed and outdated by now. Without the extra BS the 4G engine uses, the 420a can still take high pressure and only require pistons/rods intercooling and fuel to make it a reliable and VERY fast ride. I've had the opportunity to own both cars/engines. A flawless 1G and '97 420a. I could go into both's potential but have determined for myself that the 420a is the superior weapon, and if anyone has read my comparison they know that I prefer the 20G turbo. I too would like to tip my hat to HRC for puttin' it down. After that post I didn't see much of any 4G talkin'.

Life is a challenge, and I will always enjoy one being left at my feet to conquer(even HRC's if I were to be a total Star customer)

HRC has indeed helped our community if not 420a's everywhere-so Thanx Guys

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology is the Only Substitute for Displacment"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

I appreciate it guys. I don't know, maybe I have a weird chip on my shoulder or something, but I guess in a strange way it's important for me, for us, to get some respect.

I really love my car. I love the fact that I installed my turbosystem and understand it inside and out and am able to tune it and so forth. I also am not one to come down on their or cars or anything, I think they've proved themselves to a large degree and deserve respect. However, many on our board have already done a lot to earn some of the 420a respect. And every time I hear one of those 4g6 guys try and come down on my car, I hope I'll be fast enough to line up with him and at least make a race out of it!

I'm glad Jason GS that you were the guy they that Boostedv8Killer was talkin about, so that you can only improve and I'm absolutely sure man in no time that you'll soon be leaving him in no time. I know Tigermethod on this board has already run a 13.9 with a STAR stage 2 and if you work on your launches, you should have no trouble beating your friend's 14.7. (That's it! and he's talking all that smack ?!?!) BTW, I know Guy on this board ran a 13.9 as well in a HRC stage 2.

Good luck bro! We gotta "represent guys!!!

Again, thanks HRC for all the R & D you've put in for our systems. This talk right now woulda been moot had you not come along. BTW, I saw some blurb about you RS for sale or something. DONT YOU DARE!!! heheh


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

i am not putting down the hrc kit but when i go turbo (its only a matter of time and money) im going to go with the star kit. i dont think the star is better and i know you (hrc) did all that r&d work but, you cant beat the price of the star kit. so for me its all a matter of $$ and i think the star offers a better value

...'cause with all the mods I'm doing right now money is not something I have a lot of. With the info on this board I know what needs to be upgraded.

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology is the Only Substitute for Displacment"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

yeah..i know i can improve on that time. I had only had the kit on for about a week, barely drove it due to the cracked downpipe, and like i said i think the clutch slips, but that is getting fixed this weekend with an unorthodox racing stage 1+. BEsides, i know the car is fast on the street when i can roll with my friends 13 second civic.

I just find it funny that there has to be such BS between the different motors. They are both fun as hell to drive. They are both fast, and no one is ever going to give up the debate as to which car is better.

Can't we all just get along? <---cheesy cliche.


jason
95 GS Turbo

I was reading your posts and I beleive you were the one who said you were going with a Haltec in the future. I have a few questions about that. I am sure you know you picked what I think is one of the most feature rich, yet one of the most complex to tune, ecu on the market. That is the part I wanted to ask you about. Why are you going with Haltec and how do you intend to tune it? What are your ultimate future plans? not trying to knock anything, it just seems like extreme overkill if you have no intentions of running at least 11's/10's, if even necessary for that. I know the haltec works well, but it is pricey, complex, and a lot more than I would think is needed for either reliability or for a normal street car.

This is one of the reasons I went with the S-AFC for now. Cheap, simple, effective. I was just really curious what extra benefits you were hoping to get out of using a Haltec that you couldn't get with a much more simple setup. Even the Accell is far less complex. Anything that will require you to replace your entire cpu is going to require a lot of work which I could not justify on what I consider to be a street car.

MuRiX
97 Eclipse GS HRC Stage II
And a whole lot of other mods...
89 Accord LSi - yes it's mine :(
http://murix.home.icq.com/index.html

I know it sounds like overkill, but the haltech can be made streetable with enough tuning. I have a beater car i drive most of the year, and if for some reason the haltech doesn't work out for me, i can always sell it.

My plans are to eventually run 11's in this car, i just plan to do the fuel system before i do the bottom end. I don't know when this will happen, but soon i hope.

I don't know, maybe i am going the wrong direction with this, but like i said, we'll see.


jason
95 GS turbo

LAST EDITED ON 01-Feb-01 AT 07:31 AM (PST)

Well,

I had posted before on the board of a 1g owner who was taken by an HRC turbo'ed RS on the the "Streets." Yet there are more stories abound. Apparently another HRC owner had beaten a 2g GS-T in the 13's. The GS-T owner in the pasted excerpt below posts it! We may have our community here on this message board, but I continue to see on other message boards, more and more second-hand stories of fast turbo'ed 420a's. It's kinda scary to think about what some really fast 420a's are doing out there.

It makes me think that the 10.9 rumor that was abound a few months ago maybe very well true. The guy in the following post ran a 13.4 at 12psi only. That's not too shabby AT ALL!!

For your continued enjoyment:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll be happy to admit that I got spanked by a 98 RS equipped with a HRC turbo kit.. Man, he pulled me by at least a full car! I managed to close the gap a bit, but he held me off by about a 1/2 car length thru the traps.

He went 13.43 @ 107 as compared to my 13.55 @ 106
I talked to him afterwards and he was really cool.. he said that he spent roughly $3k?. He opted for the upgraded intercooler and a few other goodies. (3" exh, and test pipe)He was running 12psi on race gas.
He commented on how he took the car to the track the weekend before he had the kit installed. His only mods at the time were intake, header and exhaust. His best ET with that set up was 15.89 @ 88mph.

The way that I see it.. that's money well spent for a second and a half off his et and a 19mph increase in trap speeds!
Peace

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6125&pagenumber=2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's not like the GS-T owner was stock or anything either!

Look at his engine mods:

1st Gen. TDO5H-14B Turbo
TRE ported exhaust manifold
TRE ported O2 housing
Extreme downpipe
Test-pipe (track use only, <yeah,, right!!)
RRE J-pipe
RRE Lower I/C pipe
Hacked turbo inlet tube
HRC upper I/C pipe
Greddy Type-S BOV
Extreme XBC
Supra TT fuel pump w/10gua.re-wire
Thermal Research Exhaust
Magnecor 8.5 wires
Unorthodox Racing U/D pulley
Clutch Masters stage III carbon/kevlar clutch
Removed factory set speed limiter (135mph)
Removed clutch restrictors
Removed factory intake restrictions
Red powdercoated valve cover

Also, are those slicks on his car??!?!?!



(that's the title of his picture :"Slicks.jpg")



p.s. Correctionon his post. The RS guy dropped TWO SECONDS AND A HALF! not one.... :-)


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

LAST EDITED ON 01-Feb-01 AT 10:04 PM (PST)

that was my post on DSMtalk.com! i was REAL suprised how much attention it got. i was really leaning towards a GST until i real about all the problems it has. personally, id rather have the comfort of knowing my engine is built, and take a LOT of abuse, than wondering when the tranny will explode or when i will develop crankwalk. ill be ordering my set-up on May 4th...my birthday! hopefully the Hahn stage 3 will be out by then, if not, i guess ill have to buy the pistons/rods and injectors/S-AFC seperately. i cant wait to be boostin. thanks guys.