i don't want this post to become a big debating issue... but anyway
i also read post about HRC's fuel presure regulator unable to hold a constant amount pressure and then there is the loud fuel pump (i know these problems aren't even big ones). i usually never hear anything bad about the star kit. why is it that the majority of the people on this board have HRC. it seems to me there should be a few more Star people. plus the star kit is about 200 bucks cheaper. is it just becuase HRC has the best tech support?

anyone care to enlighten me on this sugject?

What's a sugject? :P

:'(

HRC seams to be the more stable out of the two turbos... The powerband is also made for daily driving, kicking in at low-middle rpms. Star's kit seems better for full racing (especially after some of the upgrades i saw on turbogs.com)

tech support is way better for HRC, especially since the turbo has been tested for well over a year now. The 11.53 second quarter mile run with their RS helps to sell too. Check out the hahnracecraft website.. they do a really good job in convincing you why they are really really good at what they do.

Star's kit.. i'm not even sure what company makes it... the only place that sells it seems to be turbogs.com.

Don't quote me on any of this though, cuz it's just stuff i've heard and read.

Also, i posted up an article i got from a magazine on the HRC turbo.. .so search for it.. it might help you answer some questions.

www.importparts.com has the start kits for sale also.. on the main page to the right.

The ratio is about half and half, HRC to STAR.

STAR is cheap, but you get what you pay for. There's no help other than 2GNT.com, Maximum Boost, and me. The learning curve tends to be steep and expensive.

HRC is a bit more expensive, but again you get what you pay for. Something not quite right, Bill will know what to do. You've got all the help in the world, and it makes for a fun daily driver with the torque coming on faster. The learning curve is a bit nicer, too.

STAR is a division (or offshoot) of DRAG turbo. DRAG makes Hondah kits.

I figured that STAR and DRAG were related someway....

I have a STAR kit and love it....haven't had problems except my CEL goes on and off(which I can't figure out why) a boost controller is a must for the STAR though...my stage 2 came with a 7 pound spring waste gate and was not that fast with only 5psi... up the boost and more power to ya....
turbogs.com and importparts.com are the only sites that I have noticed that sell the STAR kit

overboost.com sells them to.


aka:dsm1

Star stage 1 = ~175 HP
HRC Stage 1 = ~225 HP

Nuff said

Add a FMIC to the above equation..and the HRC kit really kicks ass!!!
plus I have read on HRC website that upgraded internals are not required for stage2 but star recommends upgrading for anything past stage1(dont get me wrong,not a bad idea but not necessary with HRC but a 420a is good up to what?300hp without upped internals...so really shouldnt matter what kit you use just a matter of personal preferences)

>Star stage 1 = ~175 HP
>HRC Stage 1 = ~225 HP
>
>Nuff said

WRONG WRONG......MUTHA FUCKIN WRONG. This is half the reason there are more HRC kits out. Dont get me wrong HRC does have the better business practice and support but bullshit like this is what pisses me off when this comes up.


HRC DOES NOT make 225hp at the wheels with stage 1, its stage 2

HRC Does not make more power nor do the majority of time slips or dyno's presented by most here support that. The freakin $100 inline pump makes the HRC more reliable and nothing more. The turbo isn't more reliable, the FMU is more adjustable (more to fuck up with) but no more reliable and dishes no more fuel. The manifold is not as reliable (ever seen warped star manifold), so what if it gives up 10hp at boost you'll never see.

GIVE ME A MUTHA FUCKIN BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, something like this got published in turbo mag also. That just isn't right.

lb for lb a star kit will make more power than a HRC kit. I really wish you guys would quit using lbs of boost as a comparison though as it means jackshit in the end. If someone make more power than me at the same boost than I can just turn up the boost. Get the point. It is worthless. Research all the other pieces and factors beyond how much boost each runs. They will reach the same threshold for maximum power in the end on stock internals anyway.

So now you guys are saying star is more reliable than hrc.wtf.

I read on one of these debates that if you just put in the star stage 2, and don't fuck with it, it'll be alright. I don't know what fuck with it means. I know this hrc vs. star will go on forever, but one of them has to be better.

after that post of the article about hrc, I thought I had it planned out, but then I go into one of these posts and confuses me all over again.

How many of you guys with hrc have warped their manifold? Haven't heard too many of these types of problems on the board? And why isn't HRC fixing that fuel pump noise if its causing stir? is it too expensive to change everything up?

My advice here:

Don't listen to anything anyone says. It's not up to them; it's your car. Ask yourself, do you want HRC or STAR? There's too many people in both camps that will tell you why the other guy isn't as good.

My opinion:

Anyone that says STAR is better than HRC is an idiot. AT least HRC fixes things that are wrong (remember the old stainless manifold?). So what if the pump is too loud. if you can't deal with a loud fuel pump, take the turbo off your car and sell it, because you are a weenie and don't deserve it. It's loud because it works. i run TWO high flow pumps, it's louder than heck, but it doesn't bother me at all. If your HRC manifold warps, i'd bet money they'd take it as a return and send you a new one without much hassle. You think STAR manifolds don't crack? Pffft. Ask SHOGUN why he had to get his replaced.

As a side note: these are just my opinions and don't reflect the opinions of 2GNT.com's moderators or admin staff. This whole debate always pisses me off. It's not this-is-better-than-that, it's goal based. And on stock internals, it makes no difference whatsoever.

Dino you act as if you have the HRC. You dont know from experience its reliability. Factory manifolds crack but the likely hood of it happening VS the HRC is less and build quality of the star manifold is better. You have no facts here backing up the HRC is more reliable other than your fondness for Hahn. So tell me whats so more reliable other than an inline pump which some star kits came with? If you want service than great, get the Hahn. More reliable is not proven.

wow...i said i really didn't want to get a debate out of this.

I'm with Stan on this...

all in all.. it really depends. What precautions were taken prior and during turbocharging. What other performance mods were factored in. I probably have one of the most built 420A's on this board... I'm sure the top three besides me would be Murix, Joe, and Stan. Two Stars and Two HRC's. We all had our drama with this turbo business.

>Dino you act as if you have the HRC. You dont know from
>experience its reliability. Factory manifolds crack but the
>likely hood of it happening VS the HRC is less and build
>quality of the star manifold is better. You have no facts
>here backing up the HRC is more reliable other than your
>fondness for Hahn. So tell me whats so more reliable other
>than an inline pump which some star kits came with? If you
>want service than great, get the Hahn. More reliable is not
>proven.

I made no claims as to the reliability of either kit. By nature, both are unreliable. I have seen STAR manifolds crack, i have heard of HRC manifolds cracking. Both kits have thier issues. like i said, it's a judgement call by the purchaser, not a clear cut this-is-better decision. Asking which is better serves no end other than a big debate because there are people in both camps that will tell you they are on the right side.

It's about your goals. You decide which kit suits your end goal and go from there. Me, i bought STAR because it was cheap. I believe you did too, Stan(if i remember right). my end goal was to save a buck or two and end up with a faster car. In the end, i believe i've spend far more than the difference in price in the kits just to make up for the deficiencies in my kit as i saw them. I've seen guys come onto the board, ask questions, buy an HRC kit, and vanish for months at a stretch because there's no need for them to ask questions anymore; nothings wrong. We may hear from them months down the road because they got boost happy and blew, or we may never hear from them again. Most of the turbo guys that hang around for long periods of time are STAR owners, from my experience, because they have no one else to turn to when something's fucking up. I may not have ever owned or installed an HRC kit, but i've done a few STAR kits and i've been here long enough to see the things i've seen. I feel that i am indeed qualified to make the call if someone ever asks, which is better?, but i never want to. Even in email. Just for this reason. People like you and i have been around long enough to get a feel for these things even before we got the turbo, so when these little things went wrong we had a good idea what to do. We can make a call wherein we can save some money and buy a kit with no testbed, no support, no webpage, and no contact info. We mostly know what we're doing. I can't make that call with someone else. This is the first time in a long time i've even gotten involved in a discussion like this because i can't stand them, and the only reason i did it is because i'm broke, frustrated, and my steering rack died yesterday. Short fused, so i threw in a blunt two cents of mine. This is how i see it.

I have a star kit with an inline fuel pump thats loud...but I have no problem with it.....
HRC and STAR are both great in different ways....like the Darkone said it's up to you to decide....

I hate these debates too. I get drawn in everytime (usually by something like false HP figures more than which is better). I dont even have a fuckin turbo anymore. Get what you want. Yeah I bought the Star because it was the cheapest kit (If hahn was the cheapest way of being turbo'd I'd have bought the Hahn), only difference between your point of view and mine is I didn't have any of these issues with the kit needing resolves. Other than the stage 1 piping I changed nothing. Anybody got a factory downpipe?

I dont' see why anybody cares anymore. if you want a turbosystem, and don't know what to buy, flip a coin. done. I bought an hrc system becuase they have the best one on the market (stage 5). unless you absolutely know what you want, you might as well randomly choose. you will probably blow yoru motor either way and end up with teh same setup as everyone else. hate to b blunt, but this is gettign as old as the "which intake is better" post.

bring it on............

Well, the FMIC is a big decision point in my book. The FMIC for the Hahn is $400 extra.

Actually,

Armond is correct. The fundamental difference between the setups is far more than which is better. They share 0 components which means you would need to make a comparison between them completely and see what is it about one you like and the other you like and what you do not like etc. In order to do this, you have to fully research, learn, and understand about turbos in general. When this question is asked, it is usually because someone heard that turbos are cool and they should have one. In fact, I would venture to say that those who fully research and understand the subject matter would never ask the question. I think at that point I would hear more questions discussing the A/R housing size or what wheel is being used. I have heard these in the past here, but you get the point. If someone has to ask which is better, I think the flip a coin method is best.

Oh, a fmic does not mean a better intercooler nor the best application. It might look cool or something like that. I made my 264fwhp@14psi on the SMIC. What are its dimensions, fin design, piping diameter, routing, core type, psi drop, flow rate, turbo size, boost level, intended usage, etc etc. Get the point?

The STAR FMIC is TINY. When you see the mouth of a Star stage 2 car and you see the IC in there.. that's all there is. There's nothing hidden, that's the whole IC. The endtank design sucks, the pipe routing really needs to be redone, and it's just too darn small. Sometimes i look at it and i really think a Starion would work better than the thing that came with the kit..

The star FMIC is really that bad huh? But does it cool the air enough? Would it be wiser to just get a stage I and get and aftermarket FMIC? Like a Greddy or something (I think that would be cheaper cuz i've seen the whole Greddy kit for $700)?

Hell, it would be cheaper to buy a star stage I and the Hahn FMIC if the turbo is positioned close enought that you wouldn't need to use a different upper IC pipe. Then that would buy you a stage II for $2,400. Anyone know if its possible an/or worth it?

well i have seen the star and starquest side by side and if the star is small, the starquest is tiny, and the star just looks like it flows better, don't really know how to explain how.
And from what i've heard from people with 4g63, the starion ain't too much better than the stock smic's out there, only advantag is its a front mount so it stays cooler longer.
(keep in mind none of this is a result of jza's actual lab and dyno testing ;) ).

It will never end. lol.. this board has job security.