So ive installed my Turbo and manifold. I clocked the turbo pointing twords the radiator. I then installed the Radiator, and discovered, theres no room for the IC piping to come off the compressor housing..





Logically, i thought ill aim it down more to make space. this doesnt work due tot he comp housing starts to touch my starter and water pipe.

O1: i cam up with this option, however i dont like it , as it seems the compressor housing/IC pipe would be exposed directly to the manifolds heat..




O2: this is the other postion i came up with, its still right in the heat path.. and may require a hel of a bend to get the ic pipe out to the open..





03: im wondering if i can run a 1/2 radiator. i know that i can per bullets wiki (Thanks Dave), however, Im wanting to know if i coupd fit a 1/2 rad, and not clip the turbo, would i run into any over heating issues?

im also wondering what, besides the heat concerns, would be present if i ran the other to IC options.

looking for imput or possible other solutions im missing. Thanks guys

Do you have a pic of as far downfacing as it will go?

Originally posted by Gruff511
Do you have a pic of as far downfacing as it will go?

Yes I was wondering the same thing!

Okay I see the issue now, I guess the only thing you can do is try to point it down as much as possible, such that it is pointing between the floor and the radiator. I guess grab a 45 degree coupler and that will aim it down for you! You will deff have to get skinny fans...if your lucky you can fit one between the turbo and the radiator...

the 1st pic is about as far "down pointing" as it will go. I have pusher fans on the front, so those arnt a concern.

Its v-banded, so a silicone hose probably isn't the answer here. I cant seem to fit piping in if i tried for pics 1 and 2, thus why i went to option 2 and 3. i at least have some room to get out, but idk if they make an extremely tight radius-ed 120* 2.5" IC pipe.

IMO your best option here is to dent the water pipe and cut that vband off and weld an elbow on, then the vband if you wanted to keep it.or go with the scirroco radiator.

i may expore that! thx.
Also keep in mind its the water pipe and starter thats keeping me from clocking.. i removed the water pipe to see what that would get me and, it gets me a degree or 2.. not much.. its the dam starter..

Is there a smaller starter? its the silinoid on top that im hitting..

the VW rad is a kool idea, however, the bottom neck is on the pass side and that may be difficult wot work around seing as the DP will be in that area.

Don't dent the water pipe. Cut it back further, clean it ALOT!! inside and out. Fabricate it to side closer to the block and wrap is in some heat wrap ( header kind should work). Then you keep the nice v band and an point it down more.

Oh watch the starter. Your gonna need the pipe to go down some to avoid it.

id like to avoid heat wrapping the manifold.. and cutting the water pipe wont help because the starter then gets in the way, removing the water pipe from the situation only gives me ~ 2 degrees, i need way more then that.. i think that a smaller starter or perhaps loosing the vband and welding an elbow on are my options : /

Alright this setup might look very silly/strange but it could possibly work...clock up, 90 degree coupler facing the driver side, 90 degree pipe to aim the air flow down, straight coupler and another 90 degree pipe and now the air flow is aiming towards your passenger side, you know the rest from there...

thats almost what option 1 is, the one located above the manifold. if i do that, then i may endup with hood issues..

Id just go with the 1/2 radiator setup you mentioned and you will definitely want to Wrap the manifold to keep temps to as low as possible.

shit, i really really didnt want to wrap, as im going hoodles for the time being.. i need to see still if going 1/2 will even work. it may cause me to have some hellish curves in the ic piping. mayb ill wrap the outer runners to keep the heat away from the ic/comp housing and the Upper rad hose.

How about a 1/2 radiator on the drivers side and facing the compressor outlet up with an elbow toward the passenger side, then going down. Just so it wont look as goofy as it going toward the driver side.

why would i run to the pass side, when my IC and everything is on the drive side? if anything id run a 1/2 on the pass side, and run everything to the drive side..

I guess I might have missed it. Does your ic have both inlet and outlet on the same side?

I dont think i mentioned it.. my bad! but yes. its a hahn.

Originally posted by streetlightning
thats almost what option 1 is, the one located above the manifold. if i do that, then i may endup with hood issues..

Well after looking at the last photo again, I believe you can do the same thing I told you but starting from the turbo facing the block. 90 degree coupler, then 45 degree pipe that leads down between the radiator and the ground, and then go from there...

P.S: Look at this page, you might get some insperation. 18 Pages of insperation haha.

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=84109&mesg_id=84109&page=&topic_page=1

yea, that would be option 3 in the photos, im thinking slo2g is correct, to pull it off, i need to ditch the Vband and weld a 90 on there. keep in mint, as you can see from the top view, the turbo isnt parallel to the block its pitched twords it, so i need a little more then 9o degrees.

It seems a 1/2 is outa the question. looking at some neon guys with the 2.4 Swap boosted, they seem to have a mixed bag, some (more then 50%) who had it over heated, some were ok. i think option 3 ere i come..however, if it gets more compact from loosing the vband, i may be able to clock it pointing above the rad. keeps me away from heat and hood will still fit. but wont know till i try it. off to find a cast AL elbow.

Can you make a pipe to go between the manifold and turbo to give more room and put it closer to the rad and use a turbo blanket on it? Should be enough to change the clocking or face up and so a smooth 180 on it.

the manifold cannot come out further, as the WG on the other side would be violating the Upper rad hose air space, and thus introduce a whole new set of problems lol.

What intercooler are you using? If you are using a normal intercooler and not a same side inlet and outlet like the Hahn you could turn the turbo around. The down pipe on the driver side and outlet on the passenger side. Your down pipe is not going to be anywhere near as big as your compressor cover. If you don't want to do that then You could run a Half radiator and get another flange for the head and use it as a spacer and then make another tube to relocate where the wastegate is to hopefully move it from the upper rad hose. Another thing, if you not going to use heat wrap on that manifold I HIGHLY suggest that you at least send it out for Jet Hot or even better Swaintech coating. Your under hood temps/IAT temps are going to need all the help they can get.

Oh no I mean get the 4 bolt flange the the turbo bolts to on the manifold and some pipe. Make it how ever long you need to clear everything and put another 4 bolt flange on the bottom for the turbo to bolt to so the manifold stays where it is, the waistegate doesn't move just the turbo is lowered to give more clearance. What kind of HP do you plan on making?

ok, heres some facts, just b/c they aren't in the original post and they are getting lost in the middle posts ; )

1. Im running the Hahn FMIC

2. Manifold cannot be moved, ie pushed out

3. Dropping the 1/2 rad, as ive found more often then not, 2.4T guys experience overheating/Higher then comfortable temps

4.I will not be running a hood.

5. Id like to avoid wrapping or coating the header, as i got SS for a reason ; ). however, i would be open to wrapping the outter runners to protect the Ic piping and the Coolant area. im wondering if there will be any issues with that as far as how the manifold reacts to it?

6. Im not modifying the manifold by moving the WG, as that would prolly void my warranty with he fab'er.

I know thats alot of restrictions, but im trying to isolate the problem and keep it simple without changing too much, as it introduces a whole new set of challenges.

slog, im going to try your original suggestion, of welding an elbow on. That should give me something to work with..

D: id would have to bring it out, not lower it, it would hit the starter even more if i just lowered it, but i dont have alot of space to bring it out either, plus it might look funky, however, its deff an option. and as for power.. i built it to make alot lol... i cant really think of a weak point that will keep me from going past 400+.. it will be all in the MS tuning lol

If your not running a hood just have it go up and do as smooth of a curve as you can to keep the velocity up.

thats deff an option too. if this elbow gives me space, i may be able to run it pointing up, but also point twords the front, and keep it low at the same time. I should mention i'm not running a hood now, i MAY in the future..

And whats the car going to be used for? With no hood I hope not a street car. And a drag car the half rad is fine. But why no hood? is there a benefit?

lol. its deff a street car..(summer and sunny days only). i do go to the track too. no hood, well b.c with the 2.4 swap, (its in an avenger mind you) the hood simply doesn't fit correctly. it hits the timing belt. i may mod it later to fit, but its not on my radar , as i want to get up and running and tuned..benefit? none, besides wtf looks and my bay temps are down ; ) lol

Ohhh ok an avenger. I would hate to cut the turbo and void its warranty though. Turbos break more than manifolds haha.

true lol. i have a spare compressor housing that were going to play with to make things fit, ill just relocate the vband and sell this comp housing lol.

If you changed the radiator inlet you could space the turbo off the head 1-1.5" then clock the turbo down. (keep full radiator)

I know you said that you cannot do that but if you changed the radiator inlet angle you could.

something like this




then you need a flange like this ebay add, although you DONT need SS, then some longer studs. (we used hex cap bolts for my exhaust manifold)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/420A-DSM-Exhaust-Manifold-Head-Flange-Stainless-Steel-/190526650768?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5c45f990&vxp=mtr

You can drop 2 12" fans behind your radiator also, I have the AC in my car and we have the fans in between the ac core and the intercooler.

*Side Note* does that exhaust manifold have a warranty?(dont wrap it unless you plan on replacing it. Wrap the turbo, waterline, starter or whatever you need to.)

*side note 2* (my husband was looking at what I was doing and said "move the radiator hose" I was like ???? he drew that picture for me LOL)

How would wrapping the manifold make you need to replace it? mine has been wrapped for over a year and not a single problem.

1. yes it has a warranty,
2. wrapping can trap in moisture etc, causing corrosion.

Pixi, i am going to weld a 90*AN to both the rad and the water neck, and do SS. but for now, im going with option 3, which is using the spare compressor housing, hack off about an inch, then weld on a 90* elbow. this should work for for now, while being cost effective and clean. if i clock it down how i wanted, id have lower water routing issues as well. Its cheaper and cleaner to do it this way, plus its a spare comp housing and a 90*, so if this doesnt work, im not out much.

ill keep you posted! thx all.

I will give a simple and long answer. (take your pic)

"SIMPLE ANSWER"
Thermal wrap voids most warranties because it can lead to premature metal fatigue.


"LONG ANSWER"
Thermal wrapping amounts to a layer of insulation (being what keeps the underhood cooler), so more heat stays in the pipe and it stays hotter over a longer distance.

That means that the pipe will expand slightly more,(SS has the largest amount of thermal walk) and that the cyclic thermal stresses (from dead cold through starting the engine up and running it hard and cooling back down to cold again) will increase a bit.

Expansion of two pieces of metal at different rates.

For example, weld attachments where thermal expansion or contraction of one or both pieces of metal results in tensile stresses (strain) on the tube interior and/or exterior. During operation, the resultant stress can be fixed or cyclic. Stressed surfaces are more susceptible to cracking and corrosion (stress-assisted corrosion).

A layer of external insulation allows this variable to happen on a consistant basis and also introduces the variable of moisture inclusion due to the external exsposure to the outside air.

The amount of stress that is put on the manifold is directly related to how the car is driven and will detemine how long the manifold will last in these conditions.

Stainless steels are sensitive to thermal fatigue due to the unfavourable combination of high thermal expansion rate and low thermal conductivity.
The stress raised during thermal cycling is proportional to thermal expansion coefficient, elastic modulus and temperature differences.

Nascar and top fuelers normally change there thermal wrapped headers every 1-2 races as those cars see extreme cyclic thermal stresses in short periods of time.

A year is not very long in the life of a header in a daily street driven car.

However if the plans are to race the car on a regular basis (weekend warrior) the manifold should see temps in the area of 1300*-1500*F introducing a...

I AM SO SORRY!!!!! I tend to ramble when I am tired.

/hijack

I highly highly highly doubt your going to crack the welds if they are good welds. It takes more that 1400 degrees to do that anyway. Plus just tack the thing up. Its not hard. My dads Dart has jet hot coating on his headers for 10 years and guess how many cracks, zero.

To not trap moisture just use a hood like most people. If you don't plan on using a hood a half rad is plenty. It shouldn't heat soak. All the heat is going out the hood area.

Coatings vs thermal wrap are two differant situations.

It is not the weld that breaks its the metal at the weld joint.

This has be debated to death there is no reason for us to debate it again.

Back to the issue at hand, have you came up with a viable solution to the clocking yet?

Its exactly the same. Holds in heat. Its heating up the same temp no matter what. All the heat transfers through the metal. There aren't different temps on the other sides. Well we can finish the debate. And ill keep wrapping my headers. Plus wrapping it reduces temps dramatically and increases HP.

I am sorry I changed the direction of this thread. I am looking to make friends and not enemies so I am only going to say that research and real world testing backs up all of my statements.

Not an enemy. Just saying your wrong. Plus nascar and top fuels are a piss poor example. They don't reuse motors.

lol. back to the topic. im going with option 3 for now. Welding an elbow and clocking twords the block.

Something like this?

Yup thats it. Then 45* or so down and to the front?

It will be slightly tricky finding the path to the IC with the air filter in the way but I am sure you can do it :)

It almost looks like it would be a 45* off of the 90* into some straight with another 45* taking it towards the drivers side under the fuel box location.

*shrug* hard to tell without seeing it :P

I would have the pipes welded up that you use to get you to the fuse box location. Otherwise thats a lot of couplers. Then have the 180* pipes welded seperate and join them with a hump coupler, that way that side has only 3 couplers with the humnp included for some engine flex. (this is assuming that your pipes go around/under the frame support?)

I would then make a heat sheild to seperate the air space between the manifold and the new welded turbo outlet.

Something like this would be easy to make. The circles would be where it would attach.



(or tape it up lol)

Originally posted by PinkPixi
I would then make a heat sheild to seperate the air space between the manifold and the new welded turbo outlet.

or wrap the headers and put the filter near the wheel well....

I plan on welding them up. My fuse box is relocated, so ill take the turbo intake and place it there. my headlight has an air port in it to give me fresh air.

Yes the lower pipes wrap around the rad core support and then go 45* up and to their destination.

Fixed









No to powder coat : )

Looks good, nice job.