I just recently blew my motor from Nitrous use and I am in the process of rebuilding. I decided that since I am gonna rebuild that I will go ahead and throw on a turbo. I have researched the whole custom kit idea but it just seems like it will be easier for me to just purchase a actual kit. I have decided to go with the hahn kit after riding in a fellow 2gnter's car but am not quite sure which kit I should go with. I am gonna probably have the engine built by VT engines and like I said I want to do 18psi daily since I have 93 octaine gas available everywhere here in Ohio. Should I go with the stage 3 kit from Hahn, minus the internals or should I go with stage 2 and upgrade the injectors? What about the stage 4 kit? Also, I have heard the several things that Hahn includes in there kit is junk such as the bov and downpipe. What else should I have them take out of the kit and what should I replace them with? Thanks Alot guys.

I heard that a lot of people don't really care for the FCD so you might want them to leave that out (if they'll let you) and get a missing link.

I've never ridden in a HRC b4 let alone seen one in real life :( the star is a tried and true kit though. Do you have super afc? That'd be nice to have.

See, I must be getting mixed opinions. I was told that if you are turboing the 420a not to get the safc cause it is designed for a GST or GSX. I was told to get a Vortech SFMU insted. Which one is it?

You NEED to have the SFMU. If you are getting larger injectors, you have to use the SFMU because you have to adjust your idle and static fuel pressures. Even on its max settings, the SAFC cant provide anywhere near the amount of fuel needed for a turbocharged car. It is nice to have a SAFC because you can fine tune your fuel system with it.

So your saying I should get both? What about these stand alone units that are available. Is it true that with one of these you would have to do NO tunning? Thanks guys

Which stage should I start at then to get my 18 lbs, 2 or 3? Should I get the stage 2 and upgrade the fuel or ge the stage three and use what it has?

i would just have vt build your block, and maybe head, and just get a stage 2 from hrc. im going with a similar setup, minus a few psi of boost.

in addition to the kit, get bigger injectors, a vortech, missing link, and new bov. im planning on using 400cc injectors for 15-16 psi.

the safc isnt really necessary, but running such large injectors it can be difficult get your car to idle correctly. the safc can fine tune that, but beyond that dont do too much cause it will start pulling timing. people have had 440s idling, so it shouldnt be a problem.

with that setup, your engine will be able to handle as much power as you can push through it. fuel is the only problem past that. well, that and other stuff starts breaking then hehe.

good luck!

Will I need any type of upgraded ignition or does the stage 2 kit come with that?

not for 15-16 psi.

I have run 21 psi on the stock ignition without detonation. Now, you should note that I did that on 110 race gas, but the amount of timing advance you get at WOT will work for 18 psi provided that you use good gas and you don't decrease the MAP voltage (which means NO safc correction). I run 17 psi daily using 93 octane gas fed by the 8 injecctor setup on a completely stock ignition with no problems at all.

If I were you, I would follow what soulcontroller already said. I would stay away from the safc for any fuel correction at WOT. If you want to buy it to fine tune your idle and low throttle fuel delivery, then thats cool, but at 18 psi, you do not want your map voltage messed with. Running 18 lbs of boost on pump gas is already pushing it and any timing advance will probably start to cause your motor to detonate. You can accomplish your desired boost level using 440 cc injectors and the Vortech SFMU alone. Or, if you want more adjustability, and you don't want to mess with the MAP voltage, look into running 8 injectors using the 034eic, or the MegaSquirt. These setups will also allow you to retain the stock fuel injectors and pressure and give you the ability to dump more fuel than you would ever need.

another vote for 16+ psi on 93 octane with no ignition retarding. it spiked once to 18 psi and i didn't hear any detonation, but i'd rather not try that much boost with the 415 cc/min injectors. i hear that 17-18 psi is starting to get to the edge of what those injectors can do with the S-FMU.

i've datalogged my setup and i get about 16-17 degrees of advance at WOT. i no longer have the AFC in the circut at all, i have it completely disconnect from my MAP sensor. the car seems to run better without it, which is no suprise. the MAP circut wasn't designed to have it in there. right now my AFC is just there to look pretty and show me my TPS voltage for my attempts at making the open-looper work (yeah, i'm lazy. it's so close to being done, i need to get a real POT to switch the TPS over to, not just a series of resistors)

granted, the OEM clutch holds only about 1/2 of the way into 3rd gear at 16-17 psi on a good day. that's the only thing holding me back from having a real 13 second car.

so yeah. for 18 psi daily on 93 octane gas, have at least 440 cc/min injectors and a S-FMU. IMO if you have no life and all you do is mess with your FPR until the car is "running so right so that you shed a tear", you don't need an AFC.

Guys thanks alot with all the help. So this is what I got that I need to run my desired 18 psi:

Hrc Stage 2
Bottom end engine rebuild
440cc min injectors
S-FMU
Missing link
New BOV
SAFC (only if I want to fine tune off WOT)
Possibly a upgraded ignition.
New clutch of course

Did I miss anything? Also the idea of 8 injectors sounds nice but also seems complicated (as if none of this already is). Are you able to have the extra 4 injectors come on only when in boost? That would be pretty nice. Lastly, with upgraded head work, 2.2 storker, all listed above set at 18 psi and damn near every bolt on, what would this car be 1/4 or hp wise. Again thanks for all the help.

>Guys thanks alot with all the help. So this is what I got
>that I need to run my desired 18 psi:
>
>Hrc Stage 2
>Bottom end engine rebuild
>440cc min injectors
>S-FMU
>Missing link
>New BOV
>SAFC (only if I want to fine tune off WOT)
>Possibly a upgraded ignition.
>New clutch of course
>
>Did I miss anything? Also the idea of 8 injectors sounds nice
>but also seems complicated (as if none of this already is).
>Are you able to have the extra 4 injectors come on only when
>in boost?

I use the 034eic and it allows you to set the exact atmospheric pressure that you want the injectors to kick in. For an install write-up and more info on it, look here: http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/8inj.html and here: http://www.034efi.com/034SupECU.html.

>That would be pretty nice. Lastly, with upgraded
>head work, 2.2 storker, all listed above set at 18 psi and
>damn near every bolt on, what would this car be 1/4 or hp
>wise.

1/4 wise, it all depends on how good of a driver you are and whether or not you have slicks yada yada. The car with all the goods on it should be capable of 12's running that setup. HP wise, I would say you will be somewhere around 300 to the wheels (345 crank) give or take 20 hp depending on tuning.

>Again thanks for all the help.

Any time :thumbsup

Well, here I am with more questions. I read up on the 8 injector setup. Very nice but I'm not sure that I want to undergo the task of that. Unless there is somewhere I can get it already put together. Will it really ride that ruff with 440's on there? I definately need this to be streetable. Also, when I get the engine in I am gonna have to run it through the break in period. Should I use the stock injectors for this and run some really small amount of boost (like 4 psi) or go ahead and put the bigger injectors on? I used to have a GS-T so I know the basics of a turbo but I really only did the basic bolt ons so I am still really new at this tunning thing. Thanks alot. You been great.

With the 440's and your idle fuel pressure set to around 10-15 psi, it should run fine. The stock computer gives you a total of 50% fuel trim correction that it can adjust for by itself by changing the injector pulse width. This is very helpful, because you can set your fuel pressure to around 15 psi, and your short term and long term fuel trims will compensate for the extra fuel that's still being delivered. Because of this, the car will idle just like stock.

You don't really need to run the stock injectors to start out. Running the 440's from the beginning will not hurt anything, but you will want to take some time to get your idle fuel pressure and static fuel pressure set properly.

In order to tune the 440's properly, you really should invest in a datalogger so you can view your fuel trims, exact 02 voltage, ignition timing, etc, while you drive. This way, you can figure out exactly what disk/spring combo to use in the sfmu to get the proper fuel pressure rise rate. I bought mine from here: http://obd-2.com/#dat and it works well. I have seen others though that have a higher refresh rate which is very helpful.

I also highly recommend the bleed valve option for the sfmu. That allows you to bleed off boost pressure at the regulator so you can decrease your WOT fuel pressure if you need to. It just gives you one more way to adjust the amount of fuel delivered, and if you are using the regulator only for tuning, then every means of adjustability is helpful.

If I were you, I honestly would hold off on purchasing an SAFC. I really don't think you will need it and $300+ is a lot to spend on something you dont need. You can always buy it later if it becomes necessary.

Great man, thanks alot. I noticed you have the www.fasterthanyou.com address in your sig. Do you run the site? I was planning on getting the top and bottom done by them. If this is your site I will be getting in contact with you in the near future. Thanks again.

Anybody got links or some info on the 8 injector setup?

I posted links about it above in the same thread.

I don't own or manage the site, but the person who does is one of my best friends. I work with Scott (the owner) on everything involving the 420A. As you may have already read, we are directly affiliated with VT Competition Engine Development in Lansing MI. All of the assembled motors that we send out come directly from VT and they do all of our misc. machine work as well. We look forward to hearing from you, and if you have any more questions, feel free to PM me or hit me up on AIM any time.

damn yo. the 8 injector setup is so confusing. i wouldn't be able to make that myself. does anyone make the 8 injector setup with the whole manifold setup already?

I had my block built at VT and its just plain sexy. I don't have it in the car yet, but from what i can see it looks great. I'm really excited to get it in! The guys at VT really know thier stuff and will help you reach your HP goals, they will not bullshit you.

I am going to be building a lower intake for the 8 injector setup for someone over the holiday weekend. I have a 2nd stock lower mani and I could make you one if you want. Let me know. Also I am ordering a 034 eic for the guy too so mabye I can put our orders togeather and get them a little cheaper. let me know, or hit me up on aim at spinalazusa. I'm probably going to do both of these lower mani's, i know someone will want it.

hehe yea. those vt guys are awesome. putting together these little 420a blocks is really just childs play for them hehe...

if you ever visit their shop, they usually have quite a few big hp custom fabbed set ups parked on the dyno, raised on the lifts, or just sittin around.

yeah like that 550 hp mercury marauder! thats the ultimate sleeper! I hope the cops dont get a hold of those...

Two important things you will probably need to run any consistent times:

limited slip and solid mounts

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I had the stage 4 clutchmasters running less than 8 psi without these things and it did nothing but spin one tire and wheel hop uncontrollably. This was with tokico illuminas and tokico springs. Im putting a hyperflex kit in to help prevent this also

Get your balljoints checked too, even if chrysler said they were ok. My drivers side balljoint fell apart from all the extra stress, which totally f#%ked my fender, cv axle, and tie rod.

You're gonna realize that nobody can tell you everything you need. My biggest problem is still stock parts going out. Just go out and buy new EVERYTHING for the engine and drivetrain and you should be fine :)

Oh, One other good thing to have. I bought the turboXS high performance manual boost controller. One of the best investments you can make, way better than the cheap ebay controllers.

Later