Still have the 50 trim mounted under it. Still waiting on a few materials to finish it off. Fired it up tonight to make sure everything is nice and sealed up tight, at 800 degrees the stainless is going to change colors....no doubt about it.

2.0 inch clearance to the hood at the highest point.















Couple pictures from the bottom of the new DP ect.

Damn that looks nice! enjoy it man. looks like it will put out some nice ponies.. how much boost will you be running?

Nice, wouldn't mind having that myself. :)

I like the divorced wastegate. Mind if I ask how much time you have in the design and build? How did you come up with that design? Equal or unequal length on the runners?

That is fucking awesome Terry!

Looks pretty cool Terry. Welds look nice too for your first time tigging stainless :thumbsup

Will be interesting to see numbers.

Thanks Guys.

Freelance.....the design phase has about 6-8 hours in it. Welding has another 50 hours. My welding is a little slow so someone with more skill could save 10 hours i bet.

I need a 90 degree bend for the IC pipe and I need ot make the 3" intake for the turbo as well. Turns out most of the low cost SS is gone and now we are stuck with 60.00 bends. Had a long discussion with RRE last night about it. The SS is so nice but so damn expensive.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Thanks Guys. Freelance.....the design phase has about 6-8 hours in it. Welding has another 50 hours. My welding is a little slow so someone with more skill could save 10 hours i bet. I need a 90 degree bend for the IC pipe and I need ot make the 3" intake for the turbo as well. Turns out most of the low cost SS is gone and now we are stuck with 60.00 bends. Had a long discussion with RRE last night about it. The SS is so nice but so damn expensive.

Have you checked out www.acestainless.com yet Terry?

Thats where I bought all my SS for everything I do. Their prices are pretty good.

Ace only has long raduis in the bends in the piece i need. I need tight radius for this particular bend.

Very impressive Terry. Can't wait to see it in real life sometime.

GD that manifold, although impressive, makes me like i dunno, cringe or something. I'm not a creative person, but if that came from your mind terry, you are gifted. loll good job, lots of work looks like

So why did you choose to make it so crazy? What is the advantage for running this manifold instead of a shorter one? How did you get to the damn bolts on that shit. I have a hard time with some of them on my log manifold.

Your garage/shop is spotless, maybe one day I can upgrade to that from my hill with rocks, lol. Nice job on the design and making it fit, is there any room for the slim lines?

Oh so many questions....let me see if i can cover all of them.

Free, it is equal length.

Advantage from longer to shorter? Probably none, the reason this is longer is so that I could make it true equal length. Shorter is possible in this configuration but it would not be equal length. Runner 4 was the determining length in this situation.

What made me make it this "crazy"? I dont know honestly. Runner 4 was the start to determine how short i could make the runners without going so short that runner 1 could not make it. 16" is not long when you think about it. Halfway through runner 3 (the second one to be formed) I started to look at the manifold in a different manner, I saw a different light if you will. It became a puzzle to get the runners shaped in such a way that your eyes dance as you try to follow them.

How do I get to the bolts? I use all studs and there are 2 that can be a tricky if your not patient. 3 can be gotten with a socket and swivel. the rest are all wrench material. There is only one i dont care for and that is due to the oil dipstick. Honestly, they are no harder than the log manifold.

Slim lines? you could on the drivers side no issue. passenger side...eh i dont think so. Now you could reroute the wastegate lines easily and solve that. Personally, i will never go back to puller fans. I love having the fans up front.

Edit: no driver side wont fit either.

My garage.....thats a lot of work that just came together recently. I worked in a poorly lite cave for years. Trust me, i know the feeling very well since that cave is right next door where my father keeps his boat...lol

what else?

I appreciate the questions and comment....makes a project like this so worth it.

Next manifold will be a short style and I am going to try and time the pulses so its not reqd to be equal length.

Terry

lolll i encourage you to keep making manifolds w/ off the wall/dream type design. would be alot of fun.

Wow, I'm not even turbo'd and I want one of those manifolds. Very nice job I must say.

That is one of the answers that I was looking for. I was hoping that you would tell me that you had timed the pulses out. I think a shorty unequal length header with timed pulses would be awesome for a turbo build. I know that a lot of the Subaru guys who go to an equal length manifold lose power down low because with the unequal length header you are getting two pulses to the turbo at the same time to help with spool issues.

I really am impressed with the work and time you spent on the manifold. Looks like good stuff.

The problem with multiple pulses at the same time is that you have colliding gasses. this might be good for low rpm but at higher rpm you suffer greater losses. A suburu design is never true equal length. Unless you put the turbo on top of the motor, one bank is always farther, you need to take that into account and that could be the reason for the losses.

Very impressive....love the design and craftsmanship welds and all

Keep up the amazing work!

If I haven't said it before, nice little Tetris project there Terry. Looking cool, just a little complicated, lol. Definitely interested in the shortie project with timed impulse. Would be really interesting to dyno a "tuned" shorite vs one of those piece of crap logs (you know the ones that basically open up all four ports to an open chamber).

Originally posted by bullettdsm
If I haven't said it before, nice little Tetris project there Terry. Looking cool, just a little complicated, lol. Definitely interested in the shortie project with timed impulse. Would be really interesting to dyno a "tuned" shorite vs one of those piece of crap logs (you know the ones that basically open up all four ports to an open chamber).

If a log works.....anything will work!

Good stuff Terry.

Curious as to why you havent mounted your new turbo on there yet?

turbine is out for ceramic coat and i want a datalog comparison with the old setup

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
turbine is out for ceramic coat and i want a datalog comparison with the old setup

Ah, that makes sense :thumbsup

Ok after working out a few more bugs....lol

2nd gear pull

OLD setup (Star manifold t3/t4oe Star turbo)
Boost begins 2800~2900 RPM
Very aggressive all of a sudden boost kicks in
21psi @ 4900~5000 RPM

NEW manifold (same turbo, same 3" style exhaust, new intake tube)
Boost begins 2400~2500 RPM
Very smooth boost ramp up
Peak 22psi @ 4450-4600 RPM

Low end engagement is much better. Seems like there is more torque down low when engaging clutch. I have a new clutch that is really aggressive and with the old setup you had to keep the rpms up and use a slow engagement when taking off from a stop.

I am very pleased so far, i just wish the manifold was very easy to remove.....that is the one goal that failed.

I will get a dyno graph something this winter or Spring.

I cant believe that i got 500rpm difference out of it.
Terry

Very impressive. I guess I will have to eventually upgrade my log manifold to something like this pretty soon.

Nice design again gj. You going to maybe powdercoat it for looks? Hope you dont drive in the rain haha

I typically dont but i do get caught occasionally. If your referring ot the air filter.....its not much of a problem with a turbo. Then again, i dont drive through large puddles either.

Just as longer intake runners improve low end velocity into the combustion chamber, longer exhaust runners should have the same affect in the transition into positive manifold pressure. I like the length, and the numbers certainly show it's a definite improvement, but I can't say I'm a big fan of the Nurburgring-Carosel-esque bends right off the #4 runner, Terry. Of course, only having two dimensional pictures to consider it, I suspect that's all it is. Tigs looks pretty clean too. One hell of a first time out project for a relatively new tig welder, imo.

Nicely done, sir.

unfortunatly Runner 4 was the determining runner. In order to put the flange right there, runner 4 had to wind like that. If i would have routed runner 4 to the front collector, runner 3 would have ended up doing the same thing. I didnt want to design a manifold like Corbins for the simple reason, he already did it! I wanted to make this a little different so that that it was unique and to prove that with a little willpower, you can create anything!

Today on the way into work at starting out at 3k rpm in 4th gear i was able to get 23psi at 4100 rpm consitantly. Now that the map has moved, I have ran into a slightly lean issue that will have to be retuned.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Today on the way into work at starting out at 3k rpm in 4th gear i was able to get 23psi at 4100 rpm consitantly. Now that the map has moved, I have ran into a slightly lean issue that will have to be retuned.

...:eek not bad. 2.0 right? what size snaily?

Thats with the Star Turbo 50 trim. 63 hotside.

nice improvements terry, If you could fit more length in there the power would keep moving lower in the rpm range. I've been waiting to hear what it does. I've noted your results like I previously said I would, And as soon as I get home I'm going to run the numbers for your new mani based off of the info from our previous conversations. I Think your manifold supports my theory that bends have little effect when sound pulses are involved. I'd love to get that manifold on the engine dyno with my morrison tester someday, I'm willing to bet that the port pressure is close, if not already into vacuum at maximum valve lift.

Well Mark, i will make the trip up to you sometime this spring. Dont really have money in the budget for dyno testing right now with the antique going out for body work.

I am going to ceramic coat the header and downpipe this winter sometime, I have noticed increased intake temps with this header.

Terry

we'll have to see how thing's work out...


how big of increase in temp are you seeing? do you think its heat soak? of a matter of efficiency?

I am seeing a 20 degree increase in air temps. Now with the filter located in the bumper, i expected a small drop in temps. Until this car really heats up, there is a big difference for the better.

I honestly believe its heatsoak. The cooling temp is not an issue however, that cant be fully tested till summer.

Efficiency wasnt an issue before, granted i am 2 psi higher now than before. The intercooler has always done well.

Its possible i could be seeing heat soak in the intake temp sensor. I will relocate that to see how things change.

The previous setup was fully ceramic coated too. For the record my intake temp is 120 degrees. Before it was ~97 degrees.

If anyone knows what their intake temps are with a megasquirt, i would love to compare them.

Terry

I can understand the heatsoak issue totally. And from what I've seen that is the only thing that really makes sense. In other buildup's i've done i've seen the turbo you have run up to 27~28 psi before really pumpin out the hot air. There's no reason yours should be any different. I tend to have issues with my manifold configuration in the staging lanes. I have to let the hood proped open or I see intake temps in the area of 127-130 on a 80 degree day when idling in the staging lanes.


For the record and your comparative results:

I just looked over my last datalogs of the year, that night the ambient air temp was 79 degrees with a 31% relative humidity-I note the tracks weatherstation readings when I race.

at 9 lbs boost (1st gear) my MAT is around 71~72 degrees

at 15 lbs boost (2nd-3rd gear) MAT held about 75~76 degrees

at 21~22 lbs boost (starting into 4th) I saw a peak of 81 degrees


later that night I did a 4th gear log (hwy on ramp butt dyno...) and logged 78 degrees at 22 lbs boost holding steady throughout the rpm range. And I believe it was about 68 degrees around 11:00 pm when I left.


I also have my MAT mounted right before the TB on the I/C piping, run 3" uncoated 0.065 wall stainless tubing, the setup is a T-3 garret 60-1 with twin 38mm tial wastegates, and a vibrant 24"x13"x3.5" I/C core(my own end tanks) -just for reference. Need any more from me to compare?


Now... where's everybody else's numbers...?

Originally posted by quicksilver99
Now... where's everybody else's numbers...?

I'd go out right now and shoot you some numbers but, as you know, the turbo is in the hospital being fixed.

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by quicksilver99 Now... where's everybody else's numbers...?

I'd go out right now and shoot you some numbers but, as you know, the turbo is in the hospital being fixed.

You worked hard to earn that right.

three of us down.... where's the rest? lmao

I'm just as interested in this info as terry is...

Thread resurection... :wavy

I just wanted to ask for a bit of explination about somthing that i read. It was something like... "full vaccum at maximum valve lift" or something like that. I know what exhaust scaveging(sp) is and i'm thinking its something like that. but...just thought i'd as cause i'd like to know what your talking about... what it is.

And is it related to JUST having equal length headers/manifold runners...or equal length runners that are the proper length for the engine size, comp ratio, etc...just wondering...could be both. idk


I love my car...
I love Horsepower...
I love reliability...
So why do i own a DSM again?

I like the design, Terry. Very logical placement of components. If it means anything, cooling has been my biggest hurdle with the new manifold. I have the entire manifold and downpipe wrapped and sheilded, but it still turns the engine bay into an oven like never before. With so much surface area to transfer heat out of the exhaust gas, there isn't much you can do to prevent it. Do you have a SPAL PWM fan controller? One of your plugs looks familiar. That and the Derale 16925 are my new friends.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
Now with more power and fewer leaks



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

No Corbin, all I have is two aftermarket fans controlled by the factory computer. I will be ceramic coating the manifold and downpipe later in DEC and then heat wrapping them afterwards.