So I'm taking a guess that the reason my car runs rich (by smell, and the fact that gas mileage hit an alltime low of 51 miles equaling 3/8 tank!) while driving and extremely lean while idling with the clutch pushed in to shift or just come to a complete stop (if i leave the clutch in for more than 2 or 3 seconds it usually stalls...) is because my ECU doesn't know what to do with the Stage 2 Crower turbo cams...well IF this is true why havent' I heard about this here before? Well that doesnt' really matter but anyways...do I need an ECU swap to fix the problem? Megasquirt maybe? I'm at a loss here, somebody please help me! The car still drives, but obviously not well and it is a real pain stalling it all the time just to stop for a red light...

You can try degreeing those cams a bit to make them idle a little better but you not going to get stock results. Thats an issue with both the turbo cams and n/a cams. The reason you dont see us discussing it much is because most people have found the factory cams suit our needs better.

Terry

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
most people have found the factory cams suit our needs better. Terry

Really?

Not to get too far OT, but do tell more. I'm making decisions.

MB

Maybe try and SAFC or richen up the idle range.

Mark, most guys who have had turbo cams have sold them and gone with stockers. the only people I have seen working a set of turbo cams are newcommers who really havent run them much or tuned them.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Mark, most guys who have had turbo cams have sold them and gone with stockers. the only people I have seen working a set of turbo cams are newcommers who really havent run them much or tuned them.

I am using a set for the first time as well. I have yet to tear her up though :(

Great...so for those of you that prefer the stock cams do you not sacrifice hp by switching back?

And my gas mileage - without reving over 4000rpm at any given point - is just over 14mpg now!!! Definitely runnning REALLY rich as I was getting 20mpg stock while redlining it multiple times a day... this hurts; what can I do to bring that mileage back up to 18 or 20?

The low vacuum from the cams is confusing the ECU. At the very least you need an SAFC to adjust the idle fuel to even it out.

I've heard that Megasquirt is only 3-400 bucks and is a complete standalone unit...would this fix the problem? I'm gonna need a standalone unit for high psi anyways when I add the turbo so if I can avoid spending $400 on the SFMU then I'll do so!!

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Mark, most guys who have had turbo cams have sold them and gone with stockers. the only people I have seen working a set of turbo cams are newcommers who really havent run them much or tuned them.

Hmm....interesting. Gotta do some more research. I'm guessing the overlap is giving them problems.

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon Mark, most guys who have had turbo cams have sold them and gone with stockers. the only people I have seen working a set of turbo cams are newcommers who really havent run them much or tuned them.

Hmm....interesting. Gotta do some more research. I'm guessing the overlap is giving them problems.

Please don't be shy to post the results of your research on this topic as I am wondering if I made the right choice with these cams now!

Thats the only thing i can think of mark. Duration is too much.

OK, back after a little research. Honestly, over the years, I dealt very little with turbos. NA is my thing. So excuse me if I talk in simple terms about my reasoning.

I'm liking the stocker cams also. Duration is definitely an issue. The position seems to be, that the added duration will only start helping you when you start talking about "bigger" turbos. With what I know about the 4g63 vs our engines etc. I'm thinking that our head design (especially without a good port out) just can't flow out the air to utilize the overlap concept that well. Plus you are talking about using the overlap to help in a higher rpm range. Again, made for a bigger turbo to take advantage of.

As for the lift, forced induction engines are not as lift sensitive as naturally aspirated engines. Remember you are forcing the air in there, as opposed to drawing it in.

Now there was some talk about matching lifts (intake lift = exhaust lift). I'm not a big proponent of this idea. Just kind of works counter-intuitively in my messed up mind. But I do have an idea how to do it, lol.

Crap, I wish I could explain/describe this better. It's just not coming to me. Well, suffice to say, I would prefer the stockers. Though, I suspect, that IF I was to make a turbo 420a, I would start off with the stockers then get an idea of what I want to change from my tune and then order up a special grind.

Purely just my 2 cents

I currently have the crane 0012's in my turboed 420a and I haven't seen much difference than the stockers.

Something about this thread worries me. If C2s really cause this many problems for a stock ECU car, then what are the chances I've had C2s all this time and just never had any issues? :( The only times Daisy would flood out were the first half dozen or so start ups after resetting the STFT/LTFT with a battery pull. Otherwise, I never had a problem making 400 miles on a tank.

Go figure. I'm going to have to mic these things when they get back and give Crower a call. I'll be pissed if they're C1s.

I hear you Driggs. I'm pretty sure I've got C2's in mine.

However, I'm running an 8.8:1 CR, heads race ported, SS +1mm valves, ti retainers, AFX/R ECU, SAFC pulling -10% at idle. I'm still NA due to the fact that I never allocated the rest of the funds to finish the msns and turbosystem.

The only issues I've ever had are low vacuum, a sorta borked idle (I've tried dial out some of the overlap with my cam gears), pig rich on cold startup conditions, and shitty gas mileage through town driving. My STFT/LTFT look considerably good (I assume the ECU is doing its job here), and top end is wonderful.

Without having the msns or an adjustable FPR, I've done about all I can and the car runs good enough.

Just giving input per my application.

Brian, If you have any version of a crower, the part number will be stamped in the surface that the Cam gear seats on. No mark means no idea what cams they are. The numbers are available on Crowers site.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Brian, If you have any version of a crower, the part number will be stamped in the surface that the Cam gear seats on. No mark means no idea what cams they are. The numbers are available on Crowers site.

Thanks, Terry. I'm supposed to get them today. I'll check the numbers and see what Crower has to say. I'll be pissed if they're not C2s...