Well I have all of these extra parts and was wondering what would be the best setup for my 1G. I know the VPC/GCC flows a hell of a lot more air due to the speed density conversion. On the downside my friend told me that I would have to change the settings a lot due to the environment outside. I live in Oregon and the weather changes drastically everyday (rain sucks). The reason for the subject title "SAFC2 Vs. VPC/GCC" is the VPC has the chip for the injectors and the settings are already dialed in. When I bought the car the guy had the VPC/GCC in there but took it out for some strange reason to sell the car... :bash


With SAFC2, I had it in my 420A until I tried the nightmare AEM standalone conversion. So It is sitting around with the 625cc injectors. I like the simplicity of the SAFC2, but I didn't really use that much because my 420A breaks every other week. So, what I'm asking here is which one would be the best for my daily driver?? Thanks for the help.

Here is the long list of mods...if it matters

Head fully ported and polished
Ported valve pockets
Extrude-Honed intake manifold and throttle body
Cylinder block
Shot-peened connecting rods Carillo
Forged JE 8.5:1 pistons
Balance shafts removed
Polished crankshaft
Lightened balanced flywheel
Centerforce clutch
EGR blockoff plate
Component groups statically and dynamically balanced
Fuidyne Radiator with FAL fans
Drivetrain
Stainless steel braided clutch line
Short throw shifter (AMS)
DSS high flow fuel pump (72 gph)
HKS 20psi boost gauge
HKS high flow intake canister
Exhaust
3" Stainless downpipe
3" Random Technology Cat
3” cat back Imagine Motorsports Exhaust
HKS External wastegate with dump tube into atmosphere
Intercooler
Imagine Motorsports FMIC
2 1/2” upper and lower intercooler pipes
HKS throttle body elbow
Turbo
1993 cast exhaust manifold, ported, polished
Mitsubishi 20G turbo T- trim compressor wheel with 8 degree clip

Suspension
Ground control Coilovers and Konit Yellow Shocks
Suspension Techniques rear swaybar
Trust .75” front strut tower brace
1993 11.2” Eclipse front brake upgrade
stainless brake lines
1993 proportioning valve

I have no practical experience with the VPC, but if you want to get around using it, the SAFC is very simple, and if you go with the GM MAF conversion (3.5" LS1 MAF), you'll never have to worry about outflowing your MAF again. Also, getting your ECU chipped (DSMchips.com) will zero out for larger injectors when you order it and between the AFC and MAF, you have a perfect piggyback system for good HP numbers.

I run my car with AFC, GM MAF, AFPR and Chipped ECU. Seems to work quite well. You can compare levels of modification in the link under my sig pic if you want.

DSMlink.

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
DSMlink.

i am gonna run the gm maf and dsmlink. ;-) no maft for me. :D plus, with the link, you can change your injector size on the fly and the link will "just fix it" for you.(with some minor interferance on your part) :D dont even need the SAFC2, sell it and the vpc and buy the link and gm maf.

When I have the money and the laptop, 1g DSMlink for sure. It is above all else, but I'll have to wait until it is officially released.

I didn't respond with DSMlink initially because who knows when it will actually come out. Or am I not seeing it on vendors' sites because I'm missing something?

it is still in pre release stages. a buddy of mine in indystars has his already, mine was shipped this morning. :thumbsup pics when i get it.

Please give all info. Cost/delivery date/can I get a copy through you? (please!).

Actually I'll IM you later tog et some info.

ok, i be on later.

my other im though. diceman193, after 8PM

I think you guys are missing the point, I have two options. This is not the question of what would be the best ECU/Pggyback.. whatever.. If I was going to buy something, It would be the AEM EMS.. But that is a different story.

So what I am asking here is. I have two choices, both of them are free. I don't want to buy anything or sell my stuff to get something else. Thanks, Scott

Well it really helps to have the SAFC to help tune the VPC. A VPC has the correct chip, but it almost always needs fine tuning. So the answer is both, really.

Buschur ran 8's on an old dial SAFC and VPC. The combo works, but you really need both to get it perfect.

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
Well it really helps to have the SAFC to help tune the VPC. A VPC has the correct chip, but it almost always needs fine tuning. So the answer is both, really. Buschur ran 8's on an old dial SAFC and VPC. The combo works, but you really need both to get it perfect.

and a lot of patience. ;-)

I'm going with the VPC/SAFC combo....I just made an appointment for the AWD dyno at Matrix Engineering (the only AWD in Portland). The soonest they could get me in is the 13th. I'm just going to do a couple pulls to get a baseline number without the fuel system and stock boost. Then once I get some more funds the VPC/SAFC/EVC/FCD (too many acronyms) are going in and then back to the $150 a hour scam....I wish I had enough money to buy a dyno and charge that much to play with cars...Wish me luck


I know it is a stupid question but with my stock fuel setup except for the fuel pump, can I turn up the boost a little bit for the baseline dyno with a MBC?? It's killing me inside to drive this car with a 20G on it and stock boost. I have the HKS EVC already spliced into the harness once the VPC goes in.. Thanks for your input and help

You shouldn't even be running stock boost on a 20G without a proper fuel system. Having a built motor with ported heads and stuff with stock fuel injectors and no other fuel mods running a 20G might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

I don't get it?

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
You shouldn't even be running stock boost on a 20G without a proper fuel system. Having a built motor with ported heads and stuff with stock fuel injectors and no other fuel mods running a 20G might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I don't get it?

100% agreement. Don't play with the car until you have done everything. Mixing and matching doesn't work without fundamental things being present. Without fuel, you'll blow it up.

I know from experience.

Also, just looking at your mod list again, you'll likely want a Boost Gauge that reads higher than 20 psi for that turbo. But that's a bridge you'll cross after about 10 others at this point.

And to answer your question specifically, can you turn up the boost a little on the 20g on a stock fuel system? No, you should likely turn it off.

I didn't take out the fuel system!! The guy that sold me the car did...I have no idea why either?? I think he thought that if didn't pass smog he couldn't sell it. Don't worry I'm not going to turn up the boost. Sorry for the stupid question. I also have a extra autometer 30 psi gauge that I got with the Hahn kit.

Not a stupid question. We just want to make sure you understand how dangerous it can be to run that turbo with no fuel upgrades.

Take it easy until you upgrade injectors etc then take it to a dyno and get on it.

Have fun but be safe too. Having the car down for 13 months isn't a pleasant feeling especially after you learn how easy to avoid it could have been.

dont use the VPC... its garbage... changes in air temp ie winter really fuck with your tuning.. just use the AFC.

The SAFC2 is installed and tuned by my local shop with the 550cc injectors.. I'm reading on sensor check that I'm getting 00700-00800 knock.. Still stock boost levels

You have to understand that with stock boost levels, That 20G is pushing ALOT more air than the stock turbo. Pressure and how much air is flowing are 2 VERY different things.
Those 550's aren't going to keep up. Drop your boost or get bigger injectors before you thrash your engine.

Originally posted by eclipzGST
You have to understand that with stock boost levels, That 20G is pushing ALOT more air than the stock turbo. Pressure and how much air is flowing are 2 VERY different things. Those 550's aren't going to keep up. Drop your boost or get bigger injectors before you thrash your engine.

Thank you Tony. It is the same PSI but the 20g has alot more "I"'s. Stock boost on a 20g is a super high amoung of air. To reiterate: those 550's are too small. It is dangerous to use them on that turbo.

What do you think about getting these injectors??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7940701081&category=33554

Rule of thumb. Never, ever buy performance parts off of EBay. It will save you from many headaches.

Go to www.fuelinjectorclinic.com and get you injectors from there. They are the best out there. They sell ball and disc style injectors which are much more efficient than the OEM pintle style, and not only that, but FIC is usually cheaper than most other places.

I know how tempting it is to get deals and save some cash, but with your car, it's better to get it right the first time and be sure you have parts that won't fail on you.

Also, as a point of reference, I sold my 660's and bought 850 injectors to run with my 60-1 turbo. You can always lean them out, but I don't want to have to buy new injectors all the time. They were the same price anyway.

Thanks Hybrid!

I have never been to that site before, I like this setup...

MITSUBISHI KIT SPECIAL


$558.99

(4)650cc Injectors $320.00
(1)Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Reg.-6 in & out #13109 $139.99
(1)DSM Fuel Rail Custom Polished w/- 6 or - 8 in & out 169.00
This is a $70 Savings! Sale! $558.99


I know the guys at Horsepower/Torque Freaks pretty well, I wonder if they can match that price.. Especially since they are in my hometown... And they've had my silver 420a for about 5-6 months now :-(

You should see their 1G in person WOW.. talk about bad ass, CF front clip with fiberglass reinforcements...drool

FIC is absolutely awesome. Just shop around and make sure you are getting the best quality for the price.

You can probably get larger injectors for the same price as well. Best of luck.