what up everyone,

A week or so ago i posted about my new 99 GST in the pits section, but i just thought id post about it in the official 4g63 section :)

I dont have too many pics on the web, but from my sig you can tell what it looks like, all stock on the outside.

My current mods are Injen intake, extreme motorsports upper/lower ic piping, 1g bov, and thermal 3 inch cat back.

The only things i have to put in are a short shifter, and a greddy type S bov, which jeff and matt are helping me out with(thanks guys)

Anyway, i have a few questions, just to get some input from a few people. This car is my daily driver so i have to have it as reliable as possible. My performance goals are to have a mid 13 second daily driver and ill be happy.

With that in mind, what should i do next? I was thinking boshur 2.5 downpipe with a boshur 2.5 high flow cat, but ive heard from several people that a high flow cat is not worth the money. I wouldnt mind getting a testpipe, but i dont want to have the car obnoxiously(sp?) loud. Ive heard that the high flow cats on ebay that are like 50 bucks are just resonated test pipes, does anyone know if that is true? Because ideally i would want a resonated testpipe, do they make those for our cars?

After that what turbo should i get? I know the t28 is expensive, but i was trying to keep the car as close to stock as possible, and its capable of making 350hp so i think that would reach my mid 13 sec car goal, any comments? A 14b i think would work out great for my goals, but is it as efficient as a t28? and should i trust a turbo that old?

Thanks for the input guys.

Now that you have a car built for some performance, here is a tip. Ebay is NOT a viable source for parts. :nono }(


These cars have such a huge aftermarket support, so trust the tuners who spent thousands of hours developing stuff. Go ahead with a test pipe, as it does not make the car really that much louder than a high flow cat (from what I remember), and I'm thinking a 2.5" DP will be fine if you honestly don't want to make huge HP numbers. Chances are, you'll catch the bug and might have to go to 3", but that's a story for another day. :cheers

The 14b should be fine for you, but just make sure you get one that the guy knows what he is talking about and can demonstrate that there is no shaft play and the fins are not chipped or bent. There are well maintained turbos out there, and also, if you can get one really cheap that isn't beaten to death, get it rebuilt and it will be like new for cheaper than new.

I'm guessing we'll be doing the TB this weekend, so I'm sure you'll be able to ask Jeff and me more Q's as you think of them. Right on.

I would not get a 14b. Simply because you will need the same install kit that a 16g or 20g needs so why not go with one of those. Well, not a 20g but maybe a 16g.

A t28 would be a direct swap so you can go that route but I can almost guarantee you will want to get bigger later on down the line.



Edit: You can learn tons from Jeff and Matt :thumbsup We should all be so lucky.

#333
www.dsmlife.com

Originally posted by Remy
I would not get a 14b. Simply because you will need the same install kit that a 16g or 20g needs so why not go with one of those. Well, not a 20g but maybe a 16g.

a 14B in decent shape is a LOT cheaper than a 16g or 20g even with the install kit. The install kit will also still work if he upgrades again later

Originally posted by Remy
A t28 would be a direct swap so you can go that route but I can almost guarantee you will want to get bigger later on down the line.

why bother? Even a 14b will make a LOT more power than a T-28.

Originally posted by Remy
You can learn tons from Jeff and Matt :thumbsup We should all be so lucky.

We ARE that lucky. Unless they decide to not answer our questions anymore.

just get a test pipe, im sure jeff is running straight pipes on his talon, just ask him to fire it up and youll see the not doesnt really go up, the exhaust just gets louder

T28 on FWD, not gonna work out too well. Wheel hop like a bitch. T28 is more suitable with AWD. Go with a 16g if you want mid 13s. You'll be able to pull in those AWD cars with 16g. 14b is not worth the money.

Ebay is not bad for performance parts. I get many of my parts of ebay. Many aftermarket dealers sell their parts on ebay. I got my 3'Dp there, and its very nicely made. I got my turbo there too of ebay - Slowboyracing sold it on ebay cheaper than on there site. FMIC from street imports off ebay.

I got my parts from Dejon Tool - custom piping
Ebay - ported 02, dp, Safc2, greddy tt, FMIC, turbo, 1g bov, and all gauges. RRE for ,misc. parts.

Originally posted by Jarrad_GST
T28 on FWD, not gonna work out too well. Wheel hop like a bitch. T28 is more suitable with AWD. Go with a 16g if you want mid 13s. You'll be able to pull in those AWD cars with 16g. 14b is not worth the money. Ebay is not bad for performance parts. I get many of my parts of ebay. Many aftermarket dealers sell their parts on ebay. I got my 3'Dp there, and its very nicely made. I got my turbo there too of ebay - Slowboyracing sold it on ebay cheaper than on there site. FMIC from street imports off ebay. I got my parts from Dejon Tool - custom piping Ebay - ported 02, dp, Safc2, greddy tt, FMIC, turbo, 1g bov, and all gauges. RRE for ,misc. parts.

'scuse me sir, but 14b is def. worth the money when it costs 30 bux!

Well if you find a 14b with no problems then its worth it. Most likely though your not going to find a good condition 14b without any problems and not having shaft play. You'll have to get a rebuild kit and then send it off to a company like Forced Performance to have it balanced and pay for shipping. IMO isnt worth it.

Now days, you can get a small 16g for $200-350 and be done with it. Turbo install isnt one of my favorite things to do either. Takes a day no matter. Freakin Exhaust manifold bolts, DP disconnected, take out fans and o2 housing.


Link to Forced Perf. turbo rebuild cost $345.
http://www.forcedperformance.net/services.aspx

Originally posted by Jarrad_GST
Turbo install isnt one of my favorite things to do either. Takes a day no matter. Freakin Exhaust manifold bolts, DP disconnected, take out fans and o2 housing. Link to Forced Perf. turbo rebuild cost $345. http://www.forcedperformance.net/services.aspx

It took me a full day to do my swap and considering it was my first time and I pretty much did most of the dirty work myself (Todd did lend a hand when needed), I don't think it was TOO bad. After doing it once and knowing whats involved, I think I could do it again in 5-6 hours flat. Maybe less...

Oh and I run a test pipe too. The nice thing is that it is a slip fit pipe so I have no bolts holing the DP, Test, and Cat Back sections together so it takes only a small amount of time to get it off.

Ricardo? Any other Q's after hearing everyone's input?

From what I gather, this will be more daily sriver than speed freak (although we all know what that really means) so a smaller turbo might be better, and if you search hard a really cheap 14b isn't that hard to come by. 16g would be good too, and I don;t know a whole heck of alot about the t-28 stuff since I never had to worry about replacing the t-25.

We are here to help and hopefully I'll have internet at the new apartment soon so Jeff and I can post for more than ten minutes a day.

Thanks for all your input guys.

Matt- Yeah, what everyone says has got me thinking.

I found a 14b on dsmtuners for 140 shipped. It came off a 91 talon with 66k miles on the 14b. The guy says it has NO SHAFT play and the turbo housing is PERFECT he says. What do you guys think? Im kinda worried about buying a used turbo, especially one thats 13 years old. This will be my daily driver, and honestly i will never take it to the track. I never took my rs to the track even when it was an all motor beast(lol, you get my point) The GST feels really good now, ive very happy with the power, but it just sucks how it kinda dies at 5500.

Ive read in several places that the t28 pulls all the way to redline, and has very similar flow characteristics to the 16g.(520cfm) From what i have gathered, it is more efficient than a 14b from boost levels between 14-18psi, which is perfect.

I think jarrad said the t28 would not be good for fwd...why is that? would it spool any faster than the t25? i dont ever launch my car in first so that wouldnt be an issue....discuss.

All the stuff I say is just my opinion and I am 2G FWD guy. It might not be the right thing to do but we are all here to make horsepower with spending the minimal price on certain things and spend more on other things. So.. Here goes some things that I believe BMPdirk you should do depending on what you want.


First of all, if your upgrading the turbo do you have the money to get the supporting mods. This means defintely S-AFC, fuel pump and maybe rewire. This I think would be the least amount of things you need with a 14b turbo.

Why I say the T28 is bad idea for a FWD car is, have you maxed out your T25 yet? Yah, once you do, you'll understand why you don't want to spool so fast on FWD car. The T28 is the close same as the T25 in spool up time but also boost all the way to redline while the T25 dies off and has not top end. The T28 is also the not best bang for buck. You can only get these turbos for +$700 plus core exchange. A Evo 16g (IMO good turbo) is $550 and install parts depending on what you do is $650 plus you can sell ur T25 to Honda guys and only have spent $500. Overall the T28 doesnt work as well I think as the 16g does. The spool up will have you having problems launching, wheel hoping, and costing you more. If I had an AWD car, and money I would so get it.

If you don't have that much money don't upgrade the T25 so fast. Run with that for awhile. Why? Its a fun turbo, spools super fast. Your keeping it stock, maybe for warranty purpose. Will have no problems running it. Needs no boost controller. Don't have to worry about vaccum leaks. Works well with the SMIC. Can put out 250hp.

If you have the money to get a bigger turbo, a 14b fine. But you can't just slap on the turbo w/o having some things. It be good if you already have intake, UIP, 1g bov, Dp, exhaust, s-afc, fp & rewire. and misc things need to be maintenance. Plugs, wires, check oil cap, boost gauge, free mods, boost solenoid removed.

Now if I were you, I would do this.. slowly buy first Exhaust, whatever is cheap on the market that you find on ebay or where ever or what matters to you most out of the supporting mods, like some ppl like buying expensive bov. Then when you are getting tired of the T25 getting beat in a street race after 60mph and not pulling anyone, upgrade your turbo. But, yah if you found a 14b already for a good deal do that then.

Couple questions for you Dirk... Do you know what your going to do about the 14b install in a 2g? Are you getting a J-pipe or doing something custom? I ask because I had to do this over twice. I bought a 2g install kit from slowboyracing for SMIC location. I then a month later bought a FMIC and had to sell my j-pipe and left stranded with my FMIC not hooked up yet and bought a dejon tool j pipe that curved towards the alternator instead of going to the SMIC. But this is for custom FMIC with one outlet on each side. Hard to explain if you haven't been through it. If you get some 800 FMIC kit you wont have to worry about this then. But if you want to save money like I do then thats something to think about.

If you do not have exhaust, get it... It will help your turbo so much breath and be able to pull people in.

I will get pics of some things for you this weekend.

Here's my old J-pipe - curves toward stock SMIC.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/108193535/108193626nKwqoQ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/108193535/108193719WPUndj
http://community.webshots.com/photo/108193535/108193845FjsaAO

My new J-pipe curves the other direction for a FMIC.

This is just somethings you might want to consider if buying a 14b and you like FMIC which I think we all do.

Will get pics this weekend of the stuff I've done to it since. Oh and I got those Rims Bmpdirk, look like your old Katanas. 18's are awesome.

Originally posted by Jarrad_GST
All the stuff I say is just my opinion and I am 2G FWD guy. It might not be the right thing to do but we are all here to make horsepower with spending the minimal price on certain things and spend more on other things. So.. Here goes some things that I believe BMPdirk you should do depending on what you want. First of all, if your upgrading the turbo do you have the money to get the supporting mods. This means defintely S-AFC, fuel pump and maybe rewire. This I think would be the least amount of things you need with a 14b turbo. Why I say the T28 is bad idea for a FWD car is, have you maxed out your T25 yet? Yah, once you do, you'll understand why you don't want to spool so fast on FWD car. The T28 is the close same as the T25 in spool up time but also boost all the way to redline while the T25 dies off and has not top end. The T28 is also the not best bang for buck. You can only get these turbos for +$700 plus core exchange. A Evo 16g (IMO good turbo) is $550 and install parts depending on what you do is $650 plus you can sell ur T25 to Honda guys and only have spent $500. Overall the T28 doesnt work as well I think as the 16g does. The spool up will have you having problems launching, wheel hoping, and costing you more. If I had an AWD car, and money I would so get it. If you don't have that much money don't upgrade the T25 so fast. Run with that for awhile. Why? Its a fun turbo, spools super fast. Your keeping it stock, maybe for warranty purpose. Will have no problems running it. Needs no boost controller. Don't have to worry about vaccum leaks. Works well with the SMIC. Can put out 250hp. If you have the money to get a bigger turbo, a 14b fine. But you can't just slap on the turbo w/o having some things. It be good if you already have intake, UIP, 1g bov, Dp, exhaust, s-afc, fp & rewire. and misc things need to be maintenance. Plugs, wires, check oil cap, boost gauge, free mods, boost solenoid removed. Now if I were you, I would do this.. slowly buy first Exhaust, whatever is cheap on the market that you find on ebay or where ever or what matters to you most out of the supporting mods, like some ppl like buying expensive bov. Then when you are getting tired of the T25 getting beat in a street race after 60mph and not pulling anyone, upgrade your turbo. But, yah if you found a 14b already for a good deal do that then. Couple questions for you Dirk... Do you know what your going to do about the 14b install in a 2g? Are you getting a J-pipe or doing something custom? I ask because I had to do this over twice. I bought a 2g install kit from slowboyracing for SMIC location. I then a month later bought a FMIC and had to sell my j-pipe and left stranded with my FMIC not hooked up yet and bought a dejon tool j pipe that curved towards the alternator instead of going to the SMIC. But this is for custom FMIC with one outlet on each side. Hard to explain if you haven't been through it. If you get some 800 FMIC kit you wont have to worry about this then. But if you want to save money like I do then thats something to think about. If you do not have exhaust, get it... It will help your turbo so much breath and be able to pull people in. I will get pics of some things for you this weekend.

Wow, thanks for all the input man. I listed my mods in my first post above, but "My current mods are Injen intake, extreme motorsports upper/lower ic piping, 1g bov, and thermal 3 inch cat back."

What are these free mods i keep hearing about..and are they safe to do,and will it take away any reliablitly? I think im close to maxing out the t25, i figure all i have left to do is downpipe/testpipe, and if i wanted i suppose i could raise the boost to like 14psi or something. If i really want to max out the t25, i guess i could do things like ported exhaust mani, ported o2, ported intake mani, etc.

I actually am very happy with how the car pulls, its very quick imo. But yeah, at about 5500 i feel that it drops power. I hardly get that high with daily driving, but when i do i feel a difference. I really just want a turbo that will take it to redline..but still has that quick t25 spool up. i know the t28 is a little more expensive than say, the EVO 16g, but then i could just use my lower ic piping and original water/oil lines, etc.

I know everyone says that i will just want more power, but i dont want to lose that quick spool up. Also, whenever i race someone on the street which isnt very often, i never launch hard out of first gear. i know it sounds like bs, but i dont want to rag on my car. When i had the rs, i never launched hard out of 1st and the car never gave me one problem. I honestly believe how you treat the car plays a huge roll on how it treats you.

I dunno, i guess what im saying is i dont think the t28 will cause a problem, but you guys know better than i do. would first gear be the only problem with wheel hop?

Also, with the t28, does it pull any harder than the t25? or is the only difference that it pulls to red line?

It will pull harder than the T25, I'm sure. You can use the stock water lines and oil lines with which ever turbo you use. Make sure when you get a new turbo you port the 02 housing or you will be getting boost creep like B. I didn't port mine and my spool up was much slower with an Evo though. Then I got a professionally ported 02 housing 2.5' and it spools almost as fast as my old T25 turbo. So try to get a ported 02 housing. Makes a huge difference.


I bought this DP off ebay. Great price IMO.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2473735445&category=33633&sspagename=WDVW
or this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2472963101&category=33630&sspagename=WDVW

yeah, those are the DP's i posted in my other post. They are the same right? So they are good quality? Did you notice a big difference when you installed it? also, was it much louder, or not too bad?

also, it says its a 3 inch dp, but it looks like it necks down to 2.5 to meet hte exhaust right? and will it bolt up to the stock o2 housing even though its 3 inch?

So with a ported o2 your evo 16g spools up almost as fast as the t25? damn, haha, i wouldnt want to port mine with a t28 then.

Yah, if the DP says for GST it should bolt right up to the 02 housing and then to the catback. And when I got my DP, they didnt make it sound much louder. It is only loud on turbo cars when your flooring it. Otherwise the DP doesnt make ur car any louder than whats illegal on some of those Domestic V8s.

You need to port regardless. Boost creep is something the 420A turbo guys have no clue about b/c the dont have 02 housings. But w/o porting the 02 housing you will have boost creep. And it sux majorly. I mean it help tredmeadously on spooling but it wont cause hurt you at all to do it. You will be hurting yourself to install a turbo on there and not ported your 02. Then you will want to redo that and its not easy taking off the 02 housing without taking the whole turbo and manifold off. Of course I had to do this. I did not port my 02. I had a 34mm flapper on my Evo.. but still had boost creep and slow spool up time. I got a ported one. And took off the 02 housing in like 4 hours w/o taking off anything else. And I have all the tools you could possibly have. You don't want to mess with it again.