And in the end it will look similar to this, with the difference being a 40mm gate and an external dump.


My question is i see this runs off the internal wastegate flapper. I am assuming i will have to disnconnect this at the least but will i need to remove the flapper all together or is just disconnect it fine? Also, will i need to remove the entier o2 housing or can you remove all four bolts while the turbo is still in the bay? THanks for any and all hel with this matter as i am still learning.

Jerrome

would be a REAL bitch to get rid of the flapper altogether. But would be to your advantage cause you could reall port the hell out the opening.
You could just pull off the actuator arm and tack weld the flapper open. :shrug
edit: you "may" be able to take the o2 housing off with the turbo attached. That would make it easier since you'd only have the dp left to unbolt. The reason I said "may" is because if those o2 housing bolts were toqued real tight, you may not have enough room to get at the back one. I know it's real tight on mine and have to use a wrench rather that impact gun or socket/ratchet because of the tubing is right over the bolt.

just out of curiousity, what kind of turbo are you gating? i'm just curious what the results are going to be--not too often you see someone go from internal to external on the same turbo IMO

You will most likely have to take the entire turbo assembly off the car. It's not too bad though.

As for the wastegate flapper, just remove it. It is one bolt and the flapper is out of there. Then port the HELL out of the hole. It should be as big as you can get it. The turbine housing on my Green is just a stock housing that had the flapper removed and the hole plugged where the flapper arm went through. (You will need to plug the hole where the flapper arm was. You will have to have a machine shop weld a plug because it is near impossible to tap into that stuff. It will be very cheap though.)

Originally posted by Vandy420a
just out of curiousity, what kind of turbo are you gating? i'm just curious what the results are going to be--not too often you see someone go from internal to external on the same turbo IMO

Big 16g. I am getting a bad base of boost creep and i decided this is the route i want to take.

Originally posted by BigBald

Originally posted by Vandy420a just out of curiousity, what kind of turbo are you gating? i'm just curious what the results are going to be--not too often you see someone go from internal to external on the same turbo IMO

Big 16g. I am getting a bad base of boost creep and i decided this is the route i want to take.

external is the way to easiest/most expensive way to get rid of creep. BUT, with that setup, you still may creep because flow will still be limited. You should look into mounting right on the manifold.
Why not just port the hell out of the wastgate outlet and o2 housing?

BTW: That is a REALLY nice o2 housing. Who is the maker/vendor?

Originally posted by eclipzGST

Originally posted by BigBald

Originally posted by Vandy420a just out of curiousity, what kind of turbo are you gating? i'm just curious what the results are going to be--not too often you see someone go from internal to external on the same turbo IMO

Big 16g. I am getting a bad base of boost creep and i decided this is the route i want to take.

external is the way to easiest/most expensive way to get rid of creep. BUT, with that setup, you still may creep because flow will still be limited. You should look into mounting right on the manifold. Why not just port the hell out of the wastgate outlet and o2 housing? BTW: That is a REALLY nice o2 housing. Who is the maker/vendor?

Everyone i have spoken to has eliminated creep with an external gate AND external dump. The only way to successfully mount a wastegate on the manifold would be in the middle and that is not happeneing. Mounting it on any of the runner of the manifold will still allow for creep which is why i am going with the o2 mounted wastegate option. WHat i am doing is almost the same as ported the flapper for a 34mm one that is offered. Only thing with that is i heard that at high boost the flapper has been known to blow right open. Doesn't happen often but none the less it happens. Victory Performance is the maker of my o2 mounted wastegate w/ tial wastegate and dump tube. Here is a better picture of what my setup will look like.....it is the one on the bottom right:

sounds good but again seems kinda expensive to externally gate a 16g---might as well just buy a 20g or hybrid turbo

Can you use that setup on other turbos, or is the O2/wastegate combo specific to the 16g? as in, if you wanted to upgrade later to a better turbo, would you have to buy a new wastegate?

Vandy

Originally posted by Vandy420a
sounds good but again seems kinda expensive to externally gate a 16g---might as well just buy a 20g or hybrid turbo Can you use that setup on other turbos, or is the O2/wastegate combo specific to the 16g? as in, if you wanted to upgrade later to a better turbo, would you have to buy a new wastegate? Vandy

Yes i can use it on a 20g. Well i got this at a steal which is why i decided to go this route and i am not one for doing things three or four times either. I mean what is a couple hundred dollars as compared to blowing your hole engine.

I have the VP external dump, as does Jeff. Great product.

Originally posted by HybriDSM
I have the VP external dump, as does Jeff. Great product.

HOw loud is it? THe ones I've heard aren't that boud but they are not this particular setup.

Jeff's is very loud, but mine was not due to some other things that caused the car to run poorly and melt a piston. Generally, external dumps are very very loud. Good loud though.

Just get a shop to cut a hole in the stock o2 housing and weld a pipe there for the dump. That works perfectly on a B16G.

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
Just get a shop to cut a hole in the stock o2 housing and weld a pipe there for the dump. That works perfectly on a B16G.

I did that to my 02 housing, I hacked it and welded a piece of pipe to it to make my own external dump. Works great. Ive got a 16G set at 12 psi right now and there is Very little creep. Once i get the rest of my supporting mods and set it to like 18psi hopefully there wont be any creep
And yes it is LOUD, But like HybriDSM said above, a Good loud :thumbsup

how long of a pipe/what diameter do you reccommend? (this sounds like a great idea)

Jeff/Hybrid/hult

are you all externally gated 16g's? I'm just learning now how this kinda thing works...

And jeff/hybrid, can you reccomend any shops that you found really helpful---this seems liek a great idea (the welding vs. paying for slowboy's but with the cutting/grinding that it looks like it requires it may not be worth it...slowboy wants $250 more for one set up for external gating (an 02 housing) vs. RRE's straight up evo 02 internally gated. When you go external, since the 16g's are all internal, you gotta weld the flapper? Anything else involved?

thanks for the help all---i love forced induction, its crazy interesting...learnin' new stuff every day (vs. my mustang lover buddy who just rebuilds an engine every time he wants more power, what a PITA)

matt

Originally posted by Vandy420a
how long of a pipe/what diameter do you reccommend? (this sounds like a great idea) Jeff/Hybrid/hult are you all externally gated 16g's? I'm just learning now how this kinda thing works... And jeff/hybrid, can you reccomend any shops that you found really helpful---this seems liek a great idea (the welding vs. paying for slowboy's but with the cutting/grinding that it looks like it requires it may not be worth it...slowboy wants $250 more for one set up for external gating (an 02 housing) vs. RRE's straight up evo 02 internally gated. When you go external, since the 16g's are all internal, you gotta weld the flapper? Anything else involved? thanks for the help all---i love forced induction, its crazy interesting...learnin' new stuff every day (vs. my mustang lover buddy who just rebuilds an engine every time he wants more power, what a PITA) matt

Jeff is running an FP Green externally gated, and I am running a 60-1 Ball bearing hybrid turbo externally gated.

I am thinking the tube is a 1.25" or 1.5" tube, and as far as I know, any machine shop can do it just fine so long as you provide specific instructions. I believce the flapper is removed entirely when you externally gate the 16g.

Jeff has alot more info on that as his former roomie in college did this exact thing. Hopefully he'll see this an respond with more exact info in the near future.

The tube should be as large as you can fit. Which is about the sizes Matt just said above. I will confirm this and get back to you.

The only problem with this is finding a machine shop that will weld steel tube to cast iron. I'm not a welder, but apparently it is not the easiest thing to do.

when i had my 1gen I had the evo manifold ported with the tial/40mil wastegate... shit was loud as hell... Plus I went with the evo o2 housing ported as well....

Where did you mount your wastegate at Gerry? Of course i don't remember anything about that car.....lol.

Originally posted by BigBald
Where did you mount your wastegate at Gerry? Of course i don't remember anything about that car.....lol.

I think TT mounted it on the manifold for gerry.

#333
www.dsmlife.com

yeah it was welded on the Evo 3 Exaust manifold.....

any creep with it mounted there?

Originally posted by BigBald
any creep with it mounted there?

you will pretty much NEVER get creep with a manifold mounted wastegate. The creep is caused by gated gases not escaping fast enough and pressure keeps rising rather than being released.

Originally posted by eclipzGST

Originally posted by BigBald any creep with it mounted there?

you will pretty much NEVER get creep with a manifold mounted wastegate. The creep is caused by gated gases not escaping fast enough and pressure keeps rising rather than being released.

On the contrary....I read that if it is mounted to the runner, not enough gases are vented equally causing some to escape and cause creep. The manifold is only perfect if mounted in the center of the manifold as such:



However...the above contraption costs to much money to justify buying it.....lol.But that method is the only way to GAURANTEEE no creep from my understanding.

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
The tube should be as large as you can fit. Which is about the sizes Matt just said above. I will confirm this and get back to you. The only problem with this is finding a machine shop that will weld steel tube to cast iron. I'm not a welder, but apparently it is not the easiest thing to do.

I did it myself, the tube I used was 1.25 ID. Its all I could find. I cut the stock 02 housing and welded the tube on myself at work.
To weld steel to cast you have to use 99% nickel welding rod with an arc (stick) welder. The weld is gonna be ugly but it holds. If you use normal mild steel rod or a MIG welder the weld will crack. Ill have to try and take a few pics of it installed tonight and post em up. You really cant see it when its installed though.


Here is a pic basically of what I did, Mine isnt as pretty as this job though. I dont remember where i found this pic, but its from a shop that does it and sells it. I saved it so I would have somewhere to go off of.

thanks thats uber helpful...I have access to a TIG welder here at school but have never welded before...if I get someone who's just a beginner to do it, is the steel to cast iron too hard; i.e. am i better trying to find a shop to do it? I just want it to hold and not melt everything under my hood w/leaks..

pics would be huge...thanks again

Originally posted by Vandy420a
thanks thats uber helpful...I have access to a TIG welder here at school but have never welded before...if I get someone who's just a beginner to do it, is the steel to cast iron too hard; i.e. am i better trying to find a shop to do it? I just want it to hold and not melt everything under my hood w/leaks.. pics would be huge...thanks again

you cant weld it with a TIG welder either, you have to use an Arc welder, the one that uses the foot long sticks of welding rod with the crust on them lol. The dirtiest kind of welding basically. I wouldnt have a "beginner" do it, Its kind of a pain in the ass. You have to preheat the 02 housing before you seld it, and after you weld it you have to put it in sand or kitty litter so it cools down very slowly, otherwise itll crack.
I just ran out and snapped a few pics.
You cant really see much with it installed. The other pic I posted was better as far as how to do it. Heres a link on DSM Tuners on how to do it, not sure if itll work though theryre doing maint. on the server or something.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=13ff745dad3abd91866fa042b234a274&threadid=63449

Pics of mine installed:

those bastards are still down :D wonder what the deal is?

Originally posted by Vandy420a
those bastards are still down :D wonder what the deal is?

Who knows, Its Tooners, most of em are a bunch of choads...


edit:sp

The link on Tuners is working now...

FINALLY..hey awesome link..i'm gonna go over it in great detail in a few, but on first read it looks perfect.

Thanks! :thumbsup !

p.s. does an external dump throw a CEL?

Originally posted by Vandy420a
FINALLY..hey awesome link..i'm gonna go over it in great detail in a few, but on first read it looks perfect. Thanks! :thumbsup ! p.s. does an external dump throw a CEL?

Nope, it doesnt throw a CEL

Originally posted by BigBald

very, very nice,
Is that a used setup?? It doesnt look very shiny anymore lol

that IS nice. Makes me wish I went external. :wallbash
Maybe next year...

Wastegate is Brand New and o2 Housing is slighty used. She let a friend borrow it for 1000 miles. Still in good shape tho.

VERY nice

better if you remove it.