Hey I was just daydreaming and i was wondering; if you had a 7 bolt engine and decided to get a 2.3L stroker kit (like this one:http://www.dss-racing.com/product.asp?section=Eclipse_Talon&subname=DSM&productid=32-200-210 ) , which includes internals and a forged crank, would this be a secondary solution to crankwalk as opposed to ding a 6 bolt swap? Just wondering hmm..

Not sure, I guess as long as the oil squirter problem is fixed with the plugs...I mentioned the squirter rumor earlier and no one pounced on it either way, to my surprise. I will say this, though: 2 grand is a helluva gamble when you can get a built 6 bolt for that much....

It has nothing to do with the oil squirters. Let that rumor die.
If it were the oil squirters auto cars would crankwalk too.

It is the force on the crankshaft applied by the clutch and the misaligned/poorly ground bearings that cause crankwalk. I know people who have taken apart crankwalked engines and that was the only problem found.

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
It has nothing to do with the oil squirters. Let that rumor die. If it were the oil squirters auto cars would crankwalk too. It is the force on the crankshaft applied by the clutch and the misaligned/poorly ground bearings that cause crankwalk. I know people who have taken apart crankwalked engines and that was the only problem found.

Thats my belief too, which brings me back to my original question?

Well I don't really know. Make sure the journals are ground correctly and get new bearings. I guess it would work fine.

Remember, not all 7 bolts crankwalk, so I am sure it would be okay.

my friend was telling meth eother day his 2001 mustang gt crankwalked

Crankwalk is just premature bearing failure. Any car can do it.

I would put money on the oil squirters over poor machining. Not that it couldn't be poor machining, but I think if that were the case then crankwalk would be far more common than it actually is. Plus I doubt Mitsubishi would be the only manufacturer to have done a less than perfect job on a block. The oil squiter theory makes more sense, from what I have seen, every block that has them blocked has not had a problem because the bearings get the proper oil pressure for sufficient lubrication. 6-bolts aren't a 100% safe from crankwalk either, I have seen a few 6-bolts that walked too.

Originally posted by Jay_98GSX
I would put money on the oil squirters over poor machining. Not that it couldn't be poor machining, but I think if that were the case then crankwalk would be far more common than it actually is. Plus I doubt Mitsubishi would be the only manufacturer to have done a less than perfect job on a block. The oil squiter theory makes more sense, from what I have seen, every block that has them blocked has not had a problem because the bearings get the proper oil pressure for sufficient lubrication. 6-bolts aren't a 100% safe from crankwalk either, I have seen a few 6-bolts that walked too.

Then why don't autos walk? :shrug....they have squirters too...so do the 4g64's if I'm not mistaken.

never ever heard of a 6-bolt walking....and if its the ball style oil squirters, then the 6bolt wouldn't walk b/c it has a different style...

Originally posted by Vandy420a
never ever heard of a 6-bolt walking....and if its the ball style oil squirters, then the 6bolt wouldn't walk b/c it has a different style...

all cars can walk


www.cnnmotorsports.com

Originally posted by Jay_98GSX
I would put money on the oil squirters over poor machining. Not that it couldn't be poor machining, but I think if that were the case then crankwalk would be far more common than it actually is. Plus I doubt Mitsubishi would be the only manufacturer to have done a less than perfect job on a block. The oil squiter theory makes more sense, from what I have seen, every block that has them blocked has not had a problem because the bearings get the proper oil pressure for sufficient lubrication. 6-bolts aren't a 100% safe from crankwalk either, I have seen a few 6-bolts that walked too.

To my knowledge, you can count on one hand the number of 6-bolts that have walked. I may be mistaken but factory 6-bolts walking is extremely rare, as in <5 times rare.

I think you guys are misinformed...I've personally SEEN 2 6-bolts in the same shop that crankwalked (both with oil squirters). They both happened to make 400+ hp before they did but it happened regardless. The difference is that crankwalk isnt discovered in 6-bolts as often because they dont have a crank angle sensor like the 7-bolts do. As much as I hate to admit it, the 4g64 can walk too. And where did you hear that autos dont crankwalk? Crankwalk is known to happen at any given time throughout the motor life...whether it be at 10k or 150k miles. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense, if it were machining why would the block suddenly let go at 100k? The bearing would have failed LONG before that. It's a gradual process caused by insufficient lubrication of the bearing...since different motors might be supplying the bearings with slightly different oil pressure (very slight difference but thats all that matters), the motors are going to have different failure points. 6-bolts and 4g64's do use a different style of oil squirter too, so they crankwalk quite a bit less than 7-bolts but it still happens. Anyway this thread makes it seem like crankwalk is a plague to DSM's...not the case. The probability of any motor crankwalking is FAR less than people make it out to be.

Originally posted by Jay_98GSX
I think you guys are misinformed...I've personally SEEN 2 6-bolts in the same shop that crankwalked (both with oil squirters). They both happened to make 400+ hp before they did but it happened regardless. The difference is that crankwalk isnt discovered in 6-bolts as often because they dont have a crank angle sensor like the 7-bolts do. As much as I hate to admit it, the 4g64 can walk too. And where did you hear that autos dont crankwalk? Crankwalk is known to happen at any given time throughout the motor life...whether it be at 10k or 150k miles. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense, if it were machining why would the block suddenly let go at 100k? The bearing would have failed LONG before that. It's a gradual process caused by insufficient lubrication of the bearing...since different motors might be supplying the bearings with slightly different oil pressure (very slight difference but thats all that matters), the motors are going to have different failure points. 6-bolts and 4g64's do use a different style of oil squirter too, so they crankwalk quite a bit less than 7-bolts but it still happens. Anyway this thread makes it seem like crankwalk is a plague to DSM's...not the case. The probability of any motor crankwalking is FAR less than people make it out to be.

Hmm, I'm intrigued. I understand fully what crankwalk is and how it can happen at any time to any car under certain conditions. Can you elaborate more an the whole oil squirter theory and how that gradual change in lubrication differs relative to poor machining and what comes down to a gradual wear over time leading to CW. Is my logic wrong to think that machining to close but not perfect clearances etc will lead to very gradual wear similar to that of improper lubrication over time.
I do not mean to come across at all like I'm being sarcastic, but the more info I have the better I can grasp the whole situation. I'm interested to hear more of your perspective since alot of it seems to be hands on to a degree.

Had the two 6 bolts you saw that walked been rebuilt previously or were they factory bottom ends that went dead over time with major modifications? This is an interesting thread, so please keep the info coming. :thumbsup

if it were oil squiters the crank wouldnt walk it would crack in half.

Originally posted by sayaben
if it were oil squiters the crank wouldnt walk it would crack in half.

If it were the oil squirters you'd get heat scores and metal shavings...which is exactly what you get. I don't know if its possible to crack a crankshaft in half INSIDE the motor if you were trying to.

Well, I doubt Mitsubishi would have such a sloppy machining process that would slightly alter the clearances from motor to motor, at least to the point where it causes bearing failure. You may be right that they did a less than perfect job but i doubt its any worse than any other manufacturer. The root of the problem lies in the lubrication of the bearing. On all cases of crankwalk the crank bearing is scored and usually even has a little heat discoloration. Thats just inadequate lubrication plain and simple. The reason being is that those squirters rob the bearings of the necessary pressure to supply oil evenly throughout the bearings. Of the two motors I saw, one was stock, the other had 2g pistons and clevette bearings. Clevette makes nice stuff so I doubt it was the bearing's fault. But furthermore both motors still used the oil squirters. The first motor was toast, the other with the clevett bearings was getting re-honed and we noticed scoring in the bearing. It had about .009 clearance i think, not sure off the top of my head. That motor was still able to be fixed. I ran about 360hp through my stock 7-bolt with 60K on it before I took it out and its flawless and i still had the squirters in. Which is sort of my point about some motors getting better lubrication than others simply by the hit and miss nature and random variability of engines. My opinion is that those differences would be irrelevant if the squirters were blocked since it would greatly increase the pressure to the bearings. I have yet to see a motor with the squirters blocked crankwalk.

I really hate being on a different computer for the next 3 months because there is a great link floating around about the oil squirter theory. A few people cut a 6 bolt and 7 bolt block in half after takign apart the engines next to each other to try and figure it out. Basically they came up with the oil squirter theory: the 7 bolt uses a ball style squirter while the 6 bolt uses something different. Their theory is that the ball gets clogged and remains always open, leading to low oil pressure conditions, esp. at idle. Then, at idle, you press your clutch in and put pressure on the crank/bearings, but they're in a lean oil condition, creating "heat spots" as someone said above...

I guess that only sort of explains why 2600 lb. pressure plates seem to cause CW more frequently. Another explanation could be mitsu's temperature at measurement/grind...if the ambient temp is off at the factory, it causes measurement/clearance issues, but I think that theory is bunk.

The worst one i've heard to date is "apparently somebody dropped something into the vat when they were molding crankshafts." He probably drove a civic with a muffler. :evilgrin

THe DSM community is ludicrously knowledgable about these cars--i'm curious as to why no one has figured it out yet

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^The link you were referring to is this:

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm

I'm leanign towards oil squirter, but am not convinced, but I guess it's a moot point anyway. CW is a few and far between problem, but it's always kinda cool to find out more about it.

Crankwalk is sort of like having mental instability in your family. Very few get it, but every single one worries about it no matter how rare it is.

Originally posted by HybriDSM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^The link you were referring to is this: http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm I'm leanign towards oil squirter, but am not convinced, but I guess it's a moot point anyway. CW is a few and far between problem, but it's always kinda cool to find out more about it. Crankwalk is sort of like having mental instability in your family. Very few get it, but every single one worries about it no matter how rare it is.

I just red a post on dsmtuners about CW with that link Matt. Sigh, now im scared to drive my car, lol, like seriously. I was told if you dont get it by 70-80k then you are safe, but man, people were saying they were getting CW at all sorts of mileage, from like 10k to 190k, and everywhere inbetween. Some people even got it as much as 3 times before finally getting a 6-bolt.

I read somewhere that for 99's they changed the thrust bearing or something so it wouldnt happen, but then i hear from other sources that its BS, and the 99's have the same likelyhood to get it as any other year.

I know we checked mine when we did the timing belt, and there was no play at all, but some people say that doesnt matter, and it can happen from one second to the next??

Originally posted by BMPDirk

Originally posted by HybriDSM ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^The link you were referring to is this: http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm I'm leanign towards oil squirter, but am not convinced, but I guess it's a moot point anyway. CW is a few and far between problem, but it's always kinda cool to find out more about it. Crankwalk is sort of like having mental instability in your family. Very few get it, but every single one worries about it no matter how rare it is.

I just red a post on dsmtuners about CW with that link Matt. Sigh, now im scared to drive my car, lol, like seriously. I was told if you dont get it by 70-80k then you are safe, but man, people were saying they were getting CW at all sorts of mileage, from like 10k to 190k, and everywhere inbetween. Some people even got it as much as 3 times before finally getting a 6-bolt. I read somewhere that for 99's they changed the thrust bearing or something so it wouldnt happen, but then i hear from other sources that its BS, and the 99's have the same likelyhood to get it as any other year. I know we checked mine when we did the timing belt, and there was no play at all, but some people say that doesnt matter, and it can happen from one second to the next??

Over time the bearing will have certain amounts of play. It doesn't go from .003 all of a sudden to .007. As far as I have read, it gets subtly worse over time and you only realize it when the clutch sticks to the floor at the "very end". Honestly Ricardo, now that you have done the CW test with Jeff and me, just do it periodically and see if there is any end play. Also doing it with an actual measuring instrument is good to see exact numbers. Don't worry about it too much since FWD seem to be much less likely and you are running a stock clutch as well. Your symptoms are light at best.

Don't get paranoid about it. Like I mentioned above, very few do it, but it's like everyone expects to be the 1% that it happens to.

thanks for the link hybrid, it was driving me nuts...

:D

i just did my $@#%ing door handle today, talk about a flaw in design that's cheap and easy to change----if mitsu didn't bother fixing that, why would they put in new thrust bearings, esp on the last model year of a car? That theory has gotta be bunk.

I do like the family mental patient analogy though, its fitting....

Originally posted by Vandy420a
I do like the family mental patient analogy though, its fitting....

Well thank you. I thought it to be apt as well. :-)

since we're talking about CW. i always wanted to know. why is it that only dsm is more likey to get cw but the lancer evolution 1-3 isn't. isn't the motor basiclly setup the same way...

My crankwalk question:
I have a 7bolt ATX that's not going to be torn down or swapped anytime soon.
No signs of CW at 90k. Would it benefit me at all to drop the oil pan and
1) Replace all the bearings?
2) Remove the oilsquirters and screw a bolt with red loctite into the hole to block them off?

Originally posted by thedawg
My crankwalk question: I have a 7bolt ATX that's not going to be torn down or swapped anytime soon. No signs of CW at 90k. Would it benefit me at all to drop the oil pan and 1) Replace all the bearings? 2) Remove the oilsquirters and screw a bolt with red loctite into the hole to block them off?

I'd say no. The odds that you have CW or will ever get CW are extremely small. If you not having any problems with the car, leave it be. It's not worth the time you'd spend taking stuff apart and putting it back together. And no to plugging the squirters too. Since you have a stock bottom end and no reason to suspect CW, leave em in. Plugging them is more beneficial when you have forged internals that dont need the extra oil.

good question