This shit should have you looking for a pitchfork, rope and torches with your neighbors. At the very least, it should make you concerned enough to GET OFF YOUR ASS AND FUCKING VOTE.

The HCR bill was over 2,300 pages long. Thanks to the internet, you can view it, CNTL+F on it to find things you're interested in trying to understand, and get an idea what they're talking about. Out the door, the whole shebang is over 400,00 words, so it's like reading 40 of my posts on here. :hsugh:

I would encourage anyone to go to this link and skim down through the table of contents at the beginning to see if anything jumps out at you. It lists the topics by section number and you can then do a CNTL+F to find that exact section and read the often brief piece of the bill to decide for yourself - with a degree of certainty, if you agree with it or not. www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text

I went through and found a couple items I thought were worth sharing...

EDIT: These bold headings are links directly to the sections named. See for yourself!

www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=enr&nid=t0:enr:2336
Every US citizen will be required - by law - to be enrolled in a qualified plan. You will have to pay for this plan, whether privately or through your employer. If you do not make your insurance payment one month, you do not have coverage that month. Guess what. At the end of the year? You catch a $750 penalty on your taxes. Don't pay it? Have fun in Federal, pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=enr&nid=t0:enr:12094
I don't know about you guys, but I love my FSA/flex benefit. For those who don't know what this is, you can elect to have pre-tax dollars taken out of your paycheck and put into an account to use for qualified medical expenses - copays, deductibles, nicotine gum, contact solution, NyQuil, you name it. You get a pre-paid credit card of your own money just for medical stuff. At the end of the year, what you don't use, you lose to the government, but I know some people who load these things up to cover their kids' braces, glasses, or their diabetes supplies. Under this law, they've just capped that annual amount to $2500. You or I might not want $200+ coming off our paycheck every month to be used for this sort of thing, but I know many people do. It effectively reduces your taxable income while providing increased funding for medical expenses.

www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=enr&nid=t0:enr:12352
This one is pretty annoying too. Up until LAST WEEK, if your medical expenses for the year ended up being more than 7.5% of your income, you could DEDUCT the amount above that 7.5% on your taxes. A LOT of people do this. This law raises that limit to 10%. How is this not a tax increase for those people making less than $200K/yr that Obama promised would not see their taxes raised "one cent?"

www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=enr&nid=t0:enr:12170
Haha. Fuck them, right? Wrong. When the people who are advertising Valtrex and bonar pillz on TV make more than $5M in a year selling those name brand drugs to people who see the commercials on TV and demand them from their doctors, they catch a "fee" (aka: TAX) that year. It starts at 10% for the $5M mark and goes all the way up to 100% for companies who make over $400M/yr. Tell me how this sort of thing helps to reduce healthcare costs? We already pay more for drugs than anyone else in the world. This effectively DOUBLES THE PRICE of the most popular/beneficial/latest medications.

www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=enr&nid=t0:enr:12234
How about the high price of specialized medical equipment? That doo-dad on the wall in the doctor's office he uses to look into your ears, nose and throat? The portable IV dispenser? The MRI machine? Dialysis machines? Anesthesia monitoring during surgery? Starting at $5M in sales annually, the companies that sell these devices will be subject to a 50% "fee" (aka: TAX), which turns to 100% on sales over $25M. To put this in perspective, MRI machines cost upwards of $3M EACH. You think the companies that make this equipment are going to keep their prices where they are? Not a chance. They will charge the hospitals more in order to remain profitable. The hospitals are going to have to pass those costs onto US. (Maybe they won't though. Maybe they won't be able to afford to buy the best or latest equipment to provide the most accurate diagnoses. No big deal, though, right?)

www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=enr&nid=t0:enr:12234 :O
This one is, like, my favorite. The insurance industry is HUGE, right? So we've just told them they can no longer deny people with pre-existing conditions, drop insureds, or otherwise limit the amount of coverage lifetime/annually. We've just told them they have to pay for basically everything for everyone forever. Fine. Don't even think about my previous arguments about how they will raise their rates because of that.

Now, any health insurance company which does more than $50M in annual business will be subject to a 100% "fee" (aka: you guessed it, TAX). How many of them do that much business? I don't know, but when you just made it a law that 36 MILLION people buy health insurance, I bet it's going to be A LOT of them. So, this law effectively DOUBLES THE COST OF HEALTH INSURANCE before pre-existing conditions even become a factor.

This "imperfect-but-we-have-to-pass-SOMETHING" healthcare REFORM bill actually DOUBLES THE COST OF MEDICAL EQUIPMENT, DOUBLES THE COST OF MEDICATION, AND DOUBLES THE COST OF HEALTH INSURANCE WHILE FORCING YOU TO BUY IT! I'm not making this up at all! It's right there in the bill!

Seriously! This doesn't make you even the SLIGHTEST bit concerned?

Where do I sign up to get the fuck outta dodge?

If this shit doesn't get repealed by the supreme court for being MASSIVELY unconstitutional it's all going to collapse in on itself and I'd rather not be here when it happens.

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G
Where do I sign up to get the fuck outta dodge? If this shit doesn't get repealed by the supreme court for being MASSIVELY unconstitutional it's all going to collapse in on itself and I'd rather not be here when it happens.

I think it's being appealed, watch Fox News the channel that has Glen Beck.

Good read, DR.

Originally posted by dalesmitsu

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G Where do I sign up to get the fuck outta dodge? If this shit doesn't get repealed by the supreme court for being MASSIVELY unconstitutional it's all going to collapse in on itself and I'd rather not be here when it happens.

I think it's being appealed, watch Fox News the channel that has Glen Beck. Good read, DR.

I know it is. Colorado is one of the states that's filing suit to get it appealed.

Originally posted by dalesmitsu
I think it's being appealed, watch Fox News the channel that has Glen Beck. Good read, DR.

Thanks, but I think I'll avoid getting any info from mainstream media, FOX in particular, and especially not Glen Beck. They might have some good points, but they are so far to the one side, they've long since lost any credibility imo.

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by dalesmitsu I think it's being appealed, watch Fox News the channel that has Glen Beck. Good read, DR.

Thanks, but I think I'll avoid getting any info from mainstream media, FOX in particular, and especially not Glen Beck. They might have some good points, but they are so far to the one side, they've long since lost any credibility imo.

I've given up on any of the major news networks. They're all so far to one side or the other that it's all bullshit. Occasionally they have a valid point, but it's so biased one way or another that it's almost impossible to sort out that point from all the rhetoric that the spin doctors have buried it in.

Damnit Brian, reading this is making my blood pressure spike, and I don't have insurance. I was far happier in my own little ignorant corner of the world.



Damnit.

Originally posted by Locke_db
Damnit Brian, reading this is making my blood pressure spike, and I don't have insurance. I was far happier in my own little ignorant corner of the world. Damnit.

Ditto.

Not to mention that all those 100% taxes on company's doing over X amount of dollars in business have no incentive for making that "next step" up in business. There is no point in doing so, In fact it would cost them money to do that extra business, with the cost of material, employing people AND insuring them. If they don't make that step to make more money (because they have forfeit 100%) there is no need to hire new people. Tell me how that helps the economy.

A little Reaganomics for you...but that shit works, that was the boom that we saw in the 90's boys and girls. Not Clinton's bullshit...that's what we are seeing now, that and a little of both Bush's. I can't wait to see what we'll see in the 2020's

Originally posted by DR1665
This doesn't make you even the SLIGHTEST bit concerned?

My health insurance costs doubled in January in addition to slashing received benefits because our small company had too many high dollar claims in 2009 and the threat of this bill passing. This has pushed even basic care beyond my reach. I can afford to make my insurance payment but I can no longer afford to actually go to the fucking doctor. Before this month I was seriously considering dropping my health coverage. If I can't use it why the fuck am I even paying for it? Right? So now we pass this bill. I can assure you that my insurance costs will go up again. Now I am FORCED to keep insurance I already can't afford to use.

Just to give you an idea about the benefits I had slashed here's a few:

- My generics went from $5 each to $20 each. I'm on 3. Ouch.
- The pamphlet that shows covered meds went from 10 pages to 2 pages.
- Urgent Care deductible went from $25 to $75. It only costs $100 out of pocket with no insurance. WHAT THE FUCK?!
- Covered mental health visits went from 50 a year to 12 a year.

Is my employer going to be responsible and give me a cost of living raise? NO!

Can I afford the $750 hit to my refund for violating the must have insurance law? NO!

This is my personal "fuck you" to anyone that supports this bullshit bill. I'd wish you horrible pain via fire but apparently I'll be paying for that too! :rolleyes

Originally posted by Uberingram
Can I afford the $750 hit to my refund for violating the must have insurance law? NO!

Well, one tiny ray of sunlight in this tunnel (visible if you look past the train speeding at you) is that the law makes no mention of penalties if you don't pay that $750 penalty.

Of course, when enough people tell the IRS to fuck off, they'll close that loophole, but it's nice to think about. :)

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by Uberingram Can I afford the $750 hit to my refund for violating the must have insurance law? NO!

Well, one tiny ray of sunlight in this tunnel (visible if you look past the train speeding at you) is that the law makes no mention of penalties if you don't pay that $750 penalty. Of course, when enough people tell the IRS to fuck off, they'll close that loophole, but it's nice to think about. :)

It's nice to think about but I can't afford the wage garnishment either. :P

Edit: Hey, where's that shit heel 97AllMtr? Shouldn't he be in this thread crying like a bitch about how we're all rich and deserve to have the shit taxed out of us?

Originally posted by Uberingram

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by Uberingram Can I afford the $750 hit to my refund for violating the must have insurance law? NO!

Well, one tiny ray of sunlight in this tunnel (visible if you look past the train speeding at you) is that the law makes no mention of penalties if you don't pay that $750 penalty. Of course, when enough people tell the IRS to fuck off, they'll close that loophole, but it's nice to think about. :)

It's nice to think about but I can't afford the wage garnishment either. :P Edit: Hey, where's that shit heel 97AllMtr? Shouldn't he be in this thread crying like a bitch about how we're all rich and deserve to have the shit taxed out of us?

She.

:shrug

Fuck... We are just fucked now.

Brain..thank you for posting this and making it even more aware to us here. I plan on reading more of this when I get home from work tonight.

My insurance just double here since I had to add Sophia into my coverage now. and this is only the beginning...

No worries Cas.

I need to correct something about my original post.

Each of these SECTORS will have a FEE associated with it and the businesses which operate in those sectors will be responsible for paying their share of that fee every year. If your company does 50% of the business, your company is responsible for 50% of that fee. Now, how MUCH of your SHARE of that fee depends on the information I posted originally.

The fees are as follows (an increase each year, details in the law):
- Pharma: $2.3 BILLION
- Equipment: $2 BILLION
- Health Insurance: $6.7 BILLION

An example:

Assume Pfizer sells over $400M in bonar pillz this year and that makes up 50% of the branded prescription drug market. They pay 100% of their 50% share of the sector fee, s $1.15 BILLION.

Another example:

If BlueCross/BlueShield collects more than $50M this year in premiums, and they represent 80% of the health insurance market, then they will have to pay 100% of their 80% share of that sector fee, so $4.02 BILLION.

DON'T WORRY THOUGH! THIS LAW ACTUALLY REDUCES COSTS ACROSS the BOARD!

(Let me know if anyone ever clarifies how, okay?)

PS:
- The law provides no authority for the IRS to penalize you for NOT paying the $695 (formerly $750) penalty for NOT having QUALIFIED insurance during the year.
- Also, since the law PROHIBITS PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS, why not drop your coverage*, pay the $695 fee once a year, and just go to the hospital when/if you actually need care? Not like they can turn you away, right?

So, $700/yr for health insurance (assuming you pay their bullshit penalty) = $58/month. Why not set aside something reasonable, like $150 a month. Now you're covered for the penalty, while setting aside $90/month for whatever comes up. If you really need to go to the hospital, just go, right? They can't deny you for pre-existing conditions.

LOL. It might just work.

*PLEASE NOTE: Do not go dropping your insurance because you read something suggesting you do it on 2GNT. Remember, you are ultimately responsible for your own life. If you think this might be a good idea for you, you need to make DAMN sure you know the law inside and out.

Thanks fa comin' out!

Originally posted by Tuxdreamerx
Fuck... We are just fucked now.

And we have been fucked for a long time, our rights are taken from us more and more every single day. This is a surprise all of a sudden? Americans think they are the best thing in the whole wide world....Greedy....self centered.....ignorant.....materialistic.....the list goes on and on. Americans respect NO ONE, not even other Americans...It's so hard to figure out why this country went down the toilet. :rolleyes

Originally posted by 97AllMtr

Originally posted by Tuxdreamerx Fuck... We are just fucked now.

And we have been fucked for a long time, our rights are taken from us more and more every single day. This is a surprise all of a sudden? Americans think they are the best thing in the whole wide world....Greedy....self centered.....ignorant.....materialistic.....the list goes on and on. Americans respect NO ONE, not even other Americans...It's so hard to figure out why this country went down the toilet. :rolleyes

I agree. Pretty sad how fucked up people are these days

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G

Originally posted by Uberingram

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by Uberingram Can I afford the $750 hit to my refund for violating the must have insurance law? NO!

Well, one tiny ray of sunlight in this tunnel (visible if you look past the train speeding at you) is that the law makes no mention of penalties if you don't pay that $750 penalty. Of course, when enough people tell the IRS to fuck off, they'll close that loophole, but it's nice to think about. :)

It's nice to think about but I can't afford the wage garnishment either. :P Edit: Hey, where's that shit heel 97AllMtr? Shouldn't he be in this thread crying like a bitch about how we're all rich and deserve to have the shit taxed out of us?

She.

Lol, big internet talker.....talk.....Who's the real bitch.lol. And when did I say you're all rich.....? lol. You're the only one who sounds like the bitch. Your lack of respect for people amazes me. You must think you're pretty darn cool to talk so big from miles and miles away. One day when someone drives to your house, and kicks the shit out of you, and then you are unable to sustain your health insurance, you'll be happy the bill passed. That way the stupid ignorant asses like you can keep breathing air. Is the bill perfect...lol...very far from it, but it's a step in the right direction. People have no respect for other people nowadays. I myself give repect to people period, if they don't give it to me, I don't give it back. Americans are assholes, it's proved every day by people like you. The rest of the world looks at us like a bunch of pathetic retards and they are justified.

Originally posted by 97AllMtr

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G

Originally posted by Uberingram

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by Uberingram Can I afford the $750 hit to my refund for violating the must have insurance law? NO!

Well, one tiny ray of sunlight in this tunnel (visible if you look past the train speeding at you) is that the law makes no mention of penalties if you don't pay that $750 penalty. Of course, when enough people tell the IRS to fuck off, they'll close that loophole, but it's nice to think about. :)

It's nice to think about but I can't afford the wage garnishment either. :P Edit: Hey, where's that shit heel 97AllMtr? Shouldn't he be in this thread crying like a bitch about how we're all rich and deserve to have the shit taxed out of us?

She.

Lol, big internet talker.....talk.....Who's the real bitch.lol. And when did I say you're all rich.....? lol. You're the only one who sounds like the bitch. Your lack of respect for people amazes me. You must think you're pretty darn cool to talk so big from miles and miles away. One day when someone drives to your house, and kicks the shit out of you, and then you are unable to sustain your health insurance, you'll be happy the bill passed. That way the stupid ignorant asses like you can keep breathing air. Is the bill perfect...lol...very far from it, but it's a step in the right direction. People have no respect for other people nowadays. I myself give repect to people period, if they don't give it to me, I don't give it back. Americans are assholes, it's proved every day by people like you. The rest of the world looks at us like a bunch of pathetic retards and they are justified.

We all know by now that you are a liberal left wing nutjob, dont reinforce our decision :P

I know that everyone has different thoughts, but the bottom line is that poll after poll shown that over 2/3 of American's do not want this bill.

Then we have the power to do something about it. People seem to forget that we are a democracy. We elect these officials into office and we can decide if they can stay there or not. Freakin impeach the president for doing something this stupid if you feel that way. So far all I have heard from both posts is a bunch of whining.

I do have to aggree with 97ALLMtr, people in this country have no respect for anyone else, and we are not teaching our kids any better. I can get online on xboxlive at 3 am my time and come across a 11 yr old kid who is in the same time zone, playing a MA17 game and cussing worse than most people on there. That is parental abuse right there. People talk smack across the internet to make themselves look like a badass to others but its just sad. People in other countries have no respect for us regardless of what we have attempted to do in the past. We have introduced places like McDonalds and Wendys who emphasize on going larger and we wonder why we have an obesity epedemic. Our media is all about showing tragedy and horror while the things that are heroic go without notice. Parents do not watch shows with their kids to make sure its appropriate for them and wonder why a 12 year old is already having sex. hmmmm Could it be because of what they were watching had something to do with it. Degrassi on teennick is one of the culprits. We are all about blaming others for what goes on and no one has a sense of responsibility anymore. You want to blame someone for you being obese then blame yourself for craming all those Big Macs down you throat.

And other people's stupidity is my and the government's problem how? Why should I have my freedoms and liberties taken away because they feel the need to protect us from ourselves? If the damn assholes in office weren't trying to gain power by buying votes with socialist programs so that they can stay in office and take away our freedoms one by one by "protecting us" then natural selection could kick in and cull the herd.

For too long people have been living on government subsidized incomes. They've become fat and lazy because they've learned that they can do nothing and the douchebags that I didn't vote for will hand them everything they need to survive. Fuck that. I will NEVER vote for another incumbent again.

Have I had to use government help? Yes. Am I highly embarrassed about it? You betcha. I also see how the government's "help" has fucked us in recent years. I can't afford health insurance because of their meddling. I would be under a mountain of debt in medical bills for the birth of my son if it weren't for a government aid program, but if they hadn't fucked with the laws in the first place a few years ago I would have been able to afford insurance in the first place. Ever since the Clinton administration mandated that medical providers MUST provide service without proof of insurance or ability to pay, healthcare costs have SKYROCKETED. When I first got married 10 years ago my monthly health insurance cost was $75 a paycheck through my job for both my wife and myself. Roughly $150 a month. Adding a child would have increased that to $190 a month. All it took for me to afford insurance at that time was a minor adjustment to my living habits. No more starbucks every day, whoop-de-fucking-do. Now, the same coverage would cost me OVER $800 a month. A 400% increase! has my pay gone up 400% in 10 years? Fuck no. I have a wife, 2 kids and pets to feed

This new law will destroy the insurance industry farther than it already has and they seem to think that charging people $700 a year will cover it? What fucking retard did that math?

Maybe I should study to be an english teacher and become fluent in japanese so that I can get a job over there as a teacher. I'll make extra money on the side shipping JDM car parts back to the US. I'll have access to some of the best healthcare in the world and my kids will get educated in one of the best school systems in the world.

Those in the military took an oath to protect the American way of life from terrorists both foreign and domestic. Its time to focus on the ones in DC.

Americas foundation was born on freedom of choice.........

Here's 10 ways this healthcare bill will affect you.

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/109178/10-ways-the-new-healthcare-bill-may-affect-you?mod=family-love_money


Pray, that none of you guys get a divorce, because you'll be even more pissed. Reason, your state child support enforcement agency. Will make you pay for the highest deductable health insurance premium. For how "x" many of kids you have, and it's mandatroy by state law.

And with this new bill passed be prepared to pay out more on top of what you'll pay for what I metioned above.

If any of you do pay child support, and try to have your monthly support payments lowered by having it modified.

It wil not affect your health insurance for your child, it'll stay the same or it will be higher due to huge ass in office.

Only way to have this dropped abit, if you have to do all of the above.

Is, if your child or children reaches the age of 18, finishes school (graduates college) or gets married. From the support papers you received the mail, on back of one them will have this, what mentioned, you'll just sign what option you want to stop paying for your child support. Mail it back to them and within a month you'll get notice.

But, even after this you'll still be required by Law to have Health insurance, when ever this Healthcare Bill goes into affect.

So, be prepared...

This is just aheads up, if anoyone you are going through a divorce etc..

Originally posted by dalesmitsu
it'll stay the same or it will be higher due to huge ass in office.

When did this happen? Whodatt for prez.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Those in the military took an oath to protect the American way of life from terrorists both foreign and domestic. Its time to focus on the ones in DC.

if shit keeps heading south... OHHH we will....we will ;)

Originally posted by 97AllMtr
Mindless drivel

:rolleyes

90 Seconds to Gov't Run Healthcare

YouTube.com

What I hate the most, as far as I can understand all the fun points of the bill, is that even though I have coverage for both my wife and I, my wife will also have to take her job's insurance or we'll get penalized. If that's the case someone needs to stand in front of my car so I can do the world a favor.

what's funny about this thread is that it barely scratches the surface. there is SO MUCH MORE that hasnt been mentioned.

1. tax for indoor tanning
2. government funding for abortions (your tax dollars are killing unborn babies)
3. VAT taxes on almost everything under the sun that will go towards funding the bill. upwards of 20% in some areas.

this bill is atrocious but it has been passed because, to name a few, some of the douchebags at my place of employment that swear that they are willing to pay 100% taxes if just one little boy gets health insurance that didnt have it. :rolleyes

the bottom line is, almost the only place left to go that isnt a complete socialistic crap hole is mexico, and it is a craphole for other reasons. tis a shame that this country, this world, has gone to trash. cant live anywhere without some poor schlub holding his hand out and the silly bleeding heart liberals stealing from those of us who work to make their begging pay off.

how much longer before the people with guns take a trip to washington to take this country back for the people? of course, those same liberal bleeding hearts at work say 1. that will never happen and 2. they have no right because "we wanted it". life newbs imo.

Originally posted by Diceman19
how much longer before the people with guns take a trip to washington to take this country back for the people?

If history is any guide, that scenario just got one step closer to an inevitability. People are angry. Just wait until Congress passes an 'audit-the-fed' bill. I'm almost certain this is going to reveal how severe the plutocracy shamelessly plays/robs the working class. EDIT: I just realized how ironic that would be, haha.

From what I hear the lawsuits wont' actually take affect until 2013 when the bill goes into full swing. Then it'll take another 5 years to make it to the Supreme Court Soooo you're looking at 2018 before it is even heard by the Supreme Court. Get ready to grab your ankles boys.

Nothing the like 'ol federal government forcing you to buy something you may not want, need, or be able to afford. If that's not wiping your ass with the Constitution I don't know what is.

How's that whole hopey changy thing working out for you?



Over 12K invested. Over 3 years in the making. Capable of 27PSI. And still sitting in the Garage with under 75 miles on the new engine. So sad.

Originally posted by msl-man
How's that whole hopey changy thing working out for you?

We're so fucked it's not even funny. That is money I could be putting toward my turbo kit. :(

We're in big trouble. I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better... if it gets better....

All I have to say is I didn't vote for the douchbag that we have for a prez. He has taken this country down the toilet! I can't believe all the bs about this health care crap. Hopefully it will get appealed.

BTW, Hi, its been awhile!

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship." - Alexander Tytler

Never seemed more applicable.

Read this today,

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-4M-people-could-pay-apf-2747238688.html?x=0

I was thinking about this today, and again got angry. Any note-worthy updates to this shit?

Originally posted by Locke_db
I was thinking about this today, and again got angry. Any note-worthy updates to this shit?

119 (IIRC) waivers were given out, but they wont say who.

I know McDonalds was one of them.

Hopefully this gets repealed in short order.

Waivers? And only 119? Fuck.

I hope this country gets it's act together soon.... It's going to be an interesting next couple of years, that's for sure.