GM is filing chapter 11 bankruptcy tomorrow morning. While this doesn't mean they are going to stop producing cars, it does mean GM will be a much smaller player for awhile. Kind of strange.

GOOD THING WE GAVE THEM ALL THAT MONEY, THEN, RIGHT?

If we hadn't, they might have had to close factories, layoff people (and keep paying them), slash their prices, shut down entire dealerships, file bankruptcy, and generally destroy the global economy! Whew! Talk about your close calls and... Oh. Wait.

GM: Total Con.

-or-

GM: Too big to fail. Too lame to survive.

I, for one, will never, EVER buy another GM product. There should be a class action lawsuit started to sue anyone in any management position at GM in the last 10 years to get our money back. All these billions of dollars the government isn't going to be getting back from those fucking worthless pieces of shit in Detroit is going to have to be paid back by someone. Can you guess who? :wary

its all cuz they got "tainted" money from the "gobement". Now that politics came into play, bankruptcy and shit started flying. Ford or any other didnt take it (handouts), they were smart.

Blame the union, not management. They were a HUGE drain on GM, something that the non-unionized Toyota doesn't have to deal with.

Management sucks too, don't fool yourself. Spineless and greedy imo.

/Wishes he didn't own his Impala anymore and making payment every month...

Union sucked. IMO they should all be tried and hung. Union members and management were a major drain. They chose to stand around and not work for ridiculous sums of money. Their union management told them to do it.

GM's management made bad decisions and let the union get away with it.

Our government decided to step in and bail these companies out. Never should have happened in the first place.

Thats why capitalism works. Businesses go under, other business buy them, and life keeps going. The government is not supposed to take over major businesses. The government cant even handle itself, let alone the bank and auto business too.

And the president announcing bankruptcy for these companies? Bullshit too. He needs to go back to KFC and leave private businesses the fuck alone.

So im glad my money isnt going to them.

Originally posted by teklein
Union sucked. IMO they should all be tried and hung. Union members and management were a major drain. They chose to stand around and not work for ridiculous sums of money. Their union management told them to do it. GM's management made bad decisions and let the union get away with it. Our government decided to step in and bail these companies out. Never should have happened in the first place. Thats why capitalism works. Businesses go under, other business buy them, and life keeps going. The government is not supposed to take over major businesses. The government cant even handle itself, let alone the bank and auto business too. And the president announcing bankruptcy for these companies? Bullshit too. He needs to go back to KFC and leave private businesses the fuck alone.

Part of the problem is that blue collar workers on assembly are making $50+ an hour. There is no way GM can compete with other car manufacturers and pay these wages and benefits. GM will restructure, get rid of the union, become smaller and more product focused, and become a greater American company because of it. The above quote is excellent and capitalism should prevail. Obama's big government is scary and we as citizens should be mad that we have given this much power to the president.

Ok, I'm getting off topic here, but, stop blaming the current administration for those issues. WE, yes WE are all to blame for the current state of affairs in our government. As we continue to watch shit like Dancing With the Stars, put in place to placate the stupid masses, whilst Uncle Sam continues to strip us of liberties and absorb more power. If you don't like it do something about it. If you want to point fingers, take a look in a fucking mirror first.

Originally posted by Fallen4ng31
Ok, I'm getting off topic here, but, stop blaming the current administration for those issues. WE, yes WE are all to blame for the current state of affairs in our government. As we continue to watch shit like Dancing With the Stars, put in place to placate the stupid masses, whilst Uncle Sam continues to strip us of liberties and absorb more power. If you don't like it do something about it. If you want to point fingers, take a look in a fucking mirror first.

I will continue to blame the current administration for taking over private businesses. They had a choice not to. Just because a bunch of privileged rich people did not want to lose their job, does not mean their friends in the government can step in.

Let them fall and dont give them money (that we have to pay back btw). Other smaller companies will come along, buy them, and life will continue as normal.

It was GM's fault they fell. The UAW had a large part in that. But the government does not have the right ANYWHERE to take over private businesses.

People lose their jobs, so what. Get the fuck over it, be better than everyone else, stand out, and get another one. They were taking 50 an hour to bolt seats down. The fact that they are jobless now does not bother me. You would think for 50 dollars an hour the work would be near perfect.

Originally posted by Guinness97
GM will restructure, get rid of the union, become smaller and more product focused, and become a greater American company because of it.

You make some good points, even if your numbers aren't quite right, but you did notice that, aside from the US Government's 60% stake in what can only be described as the greatest failure of a manufacturing organization in American history, the next largest chunk of GM stock is going to the UAW.

What happens if the UAW organizes a strike to get people more money/benefits for less work again in a couple years? Isn't that a conflict of interest for them, being such a substantial shareholder? If they go on strike and stop production, then they all, as owners, lose money out the ass.

Furthermore, suppose GM still hasn't paid back the government and there is a strike for some reason. Seems to me that would be directly affecting the people of the United States who have unwillingly had to bail out those slovenly reprobates. Can you say "Enemy Combatant?"

It's all bullshit. Money that didn't exist was created just so they could piss it right the fuck away on NOTHING. There is no chance in hell that GM will EVER pay it all back, meaning that the people who had absolutely NO SAY IN THE MATTER will get stuck with the bill.

When you need $20Bn in cash just to survive through your bankruptcy filing, then you shouldn't be allowed to file Chapter 11. The game is over in anyone who is not a complete fucking idiot's opinion. If, in the process of failing so badly, you threaten to take the world economy with you, then there should be legal proceedings brought against anyone involved in running the show.

If Rick Wagoner never works again, do you think he really gives a shit? Mother fucker can catch a plane to Europe and buy a brand new house, car, LIFE without having to sell anything he's already got. He never has to work again. His family doesn't have to work. He was ineffective and to think that the only repercussion he faces is people not liking him? Travesty. Parole Kaczynski, imo.

We've been through recession-type times like this before. What is happening is nothing new. Remember 1999-2000? Anyone here who has ever worked in IT does. Tech sector took a massive shit. What happened? Everyone got laid the fuck off.

Did the college-educated, highly-technical individuals responsible for cutting edge design, development, and manufacturing continue to get paid when they were laid off? NOPE. Did the government step in and bail any of these companies out? NOPE. Did the world recover. YES, but 3rd world tech support is now a household name.

When the tech sector shit the bed, the jobs dried up and went to Asia. Good thing I left my stable tech job to take on $70K in student loans to get my foot in the door in an industry that was "too big to fail." You think I give two shits if some fat, 30-something, mouth-breathing mother-of-two in Detroit will have to drop out of community college and get a *gasp*realfuckingjob*gasp* to put food on the table since she can no longer go to college 100% PAID FOR BY HER GRANDPARENTS' RETIREMENT PLAN? FUCK NO.

Assembly line work is not rocket science. People who can read and write at a college level have already designed each assembly line work station to ensure that the monkey, er, person who does that "job" doesn't actually have to think. It's not craftsmanship. It's not a trade. It's not worth a bailout.

Here's to Hyundai. Hallelujah! Holy SHIT! (Where's the aspirin?)

Originally posted by DR1665
GOOD THING WE GAVE THEM ALL THAT MONEY, THEN, RIGHT?

This.

Originally posted by Flipboi89
So im glad my money isnt going to them.

You have a job right? You pay income tax? Yeah.. 25% of everything you make is going to them.

so what can i do!?!?! :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o ....not a DAMNNN thing. Just vote.

i'm a union employee, and I agree the UAW had waaaaaay too much power. Most of the people working in the auto factories aren't exactly highly skilled workers. Not to say that non of them are, but there are many that are not. Not to mention their quality isn't on par with non-union companies, so why are they paying them so much more? Their quality has probably improved some in recent years, but they sure as hell aren't honda.

F GM.

Originally posted by DR1665
GOOD THING WE GAVE THEM ALL THAT MONEY, THEN, RIGHT?........All these billions of dollars the government isn't going to be getting back from those fucking worthless pieces of shit in Detroit is going to have to be paid back by someone. Can you guess who? :wary

Actually the government just gave them a guaranteed loan that they were required to pay back. The $20 billion the gov't gave GM is nothing to what the government is spending on defense, Iraq, and stimulus money. Visit usaspending.gov and you will be amazed the worthless shit that people spend money on. (Believe me...I am in charge of spending the government's money as a contractor)It's so stupid that the big wigs in Washington think that a $700 billion plus stimulus bill will boost the economy. They just gave extra money to people who don't know how to manage their money anyway. I guarantee the stimulus money was spent on drugs, alcohol, strippers, and paying off debt....not cars, furniture, computers, and ect.

But hey, money is just cotton and linen not backed by anything anymore except an IOU from the future tax revenues of the U.S. (Scary isn't it) Besides the federal reserve has the power to print as much money as they please under the direction of the Treasury. Behold the massive inflation that we are going to experience over the next decade. The only real way to get rid of the U.S. national debt is by considerably raising taxes or printing more money (which means more inflation).....unfortunately I think both are coming or the U.S. is going bankrupt and bringing the whole world with it.

Originally posted by Guinness97
Actually the government just gave them a guaranteed loan that they were required to pay back. the federal reserve has the power to print as much money as they please under the direction of the Treasury. Behold the massive inflation that we are going to experience over the next decade.

So you understand that the "loans" will never be payed back then?

Think about it. 30 billion in todays dollars... spent on hard goods that depreciate slowly. Tomorrow and every year for the next decade the US Dollar inflates 1000%. All of a sudden at the end of the "loan" they have 25 Trillion in future dollars that are virtually worthless, but it's more enough to cover the dollar amount on the loan!

A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

LOL...I like how line workers are magically making 50/hr now. Do any of you actually know a UAW worker? A lot of my friends and family would have liked to have made 50/hr.

I agree that unskilled labor makes way too much, but my father topped out at just over 30/hr after 35 years of service, in the 2nd highest paid skilled trade.

I love how numbers are just thrown out without any supporting facts, from both sides of the fence. They are all idiots, and things do need to change, but if any of you think that it's going to happen in our life time, you are crazy.

The ridiculously high wage per hour number is not the rate of pay, but the actual cost to the company of having that employee stand there for an hour - think benefits, taxes, etc. And IIRC, it was around $70/hr. And that is stupidly high for a job paying $30/hr.

Originally posted by 992gnt
The ridiculously high wage per hour number is not the rate of pay, but the actual cost to the company of having that employee stand there for an hour - think benefits, taxes, etc. And IIRC, it was around $70/hr. And that is stupidly high for a job paying $30/hr.

IC...makes sense to me now that you explain it. But, when that number is thrown out there how many people think of that? I didn't, and that's how things get wacked way out of proportion.

Did fiat back out on buying chrysler? I also heard like some place in china is gonna be owning some of gm.

Originally posted by Flipboi89
Did fiat back out on buying chrysler? I also heard like some place in china is gonna be owning some of gm.

Some place in China is buying Hummer.

Originally posted by Flipboi89
I also heard like some place in china is gonna be owning some of gm.

Well seeing as China holds the majority of the bonds for the money that our government spends like water and now our government owns GM...

yeah I'd say that's about right.

Well the media throws around numbers to create sensationalistic stories, and people hear/read what they want to hear/read - and then it becomes fact. Sad, but so true.

I won't get too political.

GM wil still be around. It won't be as big and bloated as it was and currently is (soon that will change) but we'll still see at least a few nice cars from them in the future.

Unfortunately I think most of their future offerings will be like most of their current offerings: they're cheaper than the competition but then you look at the vehicles and you see WHY they are cheaper. They're not as nice or as appealing as competitors' vehicles.

GM was simply too big, way too many brands for too long, run too poorly, they had the union albatross around their neck, and they made significant profit on too few vehicles in their lineup (pickups and SUVs naturally). When the sales of those vehicles tanked, they had nothing to fall back on.

Even Toyota reported its first yearly loss in its history, so you know car sales are bad right now. But GM couldn't absorb the shock like other companies could.

Chrysler was even more poorly run, and it was bought and sold too many times. That can kill a company in good times, let alone bad times.

I think they should have gone bankrupt last year and cleaned house sooner than this. The government should have said "sorry guys, you got into this, you get out" but it was too politicized a process to let that happen.

And the crisis in the auto industry gave all those self serving blowhard senators a chance to grandstand on national TV and look so important to everyone by berating the car execs when they came asking for money. Give Ford credit for seeing how they were treated and saying "no thanks, we don't want any part of this! If this is how they treat us now, what is going to happen when we're indebted to the government and they call the shots?" We'll we're seeing what happens, the president and his staff end up deciding how the company is going to be run.

I don't know why this is even discussed, when the much larger bailout of insurance companies, banks, and fannie-mae/freddy mac dwarf the GM intervention. And GM actually produced something of worth. Insurance, banks, and government run mortgage institutions don't produce anything at all, but rather make it easier to enslave the poor and middle class with debt/worthless paper and 30 year mortgages (which means, by necessity, housing prices will rise to make sure that it takes you 30 years to pay off a house. Back in the 50's, you could buy a house on only 3 years salary.)

Wake the fuck up

Sorry tim got it right I was meaning hummer.

i got all of you beat with my $847 a month payment on my peice of shit....

Originally posted by KaptainMyke
i got all of you beat with my $847 a month payment on my peice of shit....

On what the penis extension in your sig? :P

Originally posted by KaptainMyke
i got all of you beat with my $847 a month payment on my peice of shit....

Why is it a piece of shit? Nothing lasts forever.

Originally posted by KaptainMyke
i got all of you beat with my $847 a month payment on my peice of shit....

Jesus fuck, Myke. :-o

Originally posted by ez
Back in the 50's, you could buy a house on only 3 years salary.) Wake the fuck up

The house that I live in is less than 2 years of my wife's and my salaries (modest income under 6 figures). It's nothing to fancy but it's about 1600 sq ft. only 3 years old, sits a 1 acre lot and 2 minutes from everything we need (fast food, major grocery store, ect).

But you have a point about the financial district...those ass holes are flying under the radar some how.