Looks like http://www.change.gov is up and running...


Charlie Rangle has authored a bill that may be dusted off after Obama enters the Oval Office. It’s called the National Service Act and calls for a universal draft with two years of “service” for virtually all persons aged 18-42, with no deferment for college. The language of Rangel’s bill states that:

“all persons in the United States between the ages of 18 and 42″ be required to “perform national service, either as a member of the uniformed services or in civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security.”

YESTERDAY it said "be required to perform national service"

TODAY it says, "by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free."

This violates the 13th amendment of our constitution.

Anyway, for what it's worth , I found it interesting that yesterday it stated the word "required" and today it was changed to "setting a goal".


http://change.gov/americaserves/

Welcome to the new world order. Just wait and see what happens after he is in office. Whether it violates your rights or not Barry doesn't care. He's upset that the Constitution doesn't give the courts the power to redistribute wealth. So I'm sure that he doesn't care about any other rights under the Constitution.

I don't like that it said requires, but don't you think this could be a good thing? The idea in itself is great, cause admit it, kids between 14-18 are pure trash nowadays.

It'd be good for them to get out and do something. I know when I was in high school, we had required comm. service and for one thing, it wasnt that bad. And second, you really were a different person coming out of it than going in.

AND, (last point, i swear) some states already require comm. service similar to the terms that are in this proposal.

Edit: Since they changed it, can you really find a problem with this? This would pay for an entire semester for me, and that is HUGE. And 100 hours a year? Cmon... (thats EASY to accomplish)

"Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free."

yup New World Order and its sliding downhill thats why I make ammo and collect guns

Originally posted by cc8balla
I don't like that it said requires, but don't you think this could be a good thing? The idea in itself is great, cause admit it, kids between 14-18 are pure trash nowadays. It'd be good for them to get out and do something. I know when I was in high school, we had required comm. service and for one thing, it wasnt that bad. And second, you really were a different person coming out of it than going in. AND, (last point, i swear) some states already require comm. service similar to the terms that are in this proposal. Edit: Since they changed it, can you really find a problem with this? This would pay for an entire semester for me, and that is HUGE. And 100 hours a year? Cmon... (thats EASY to accomplish) "Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free."

Because here is the problem with this. When you say 'It'd be a good thing for them', you have now infringed on their rights. You have made a choice that effects someone else. That removes the freedom to do what you personally want to do. Now when every kid in America says hey I am going to do this and get free money, they can do 100 hours and get this $4000 tax credit indefinitely. That means Joe Drunk who wants to go to college and party can do so on my tax money. Why should I be forced to pay taxes to send someone else to school? You think it is ok to lift money from my pocket so that you don't have to work to achieve the same things that I have in life?

Why do you want to have someone come to you and say "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." That is the scariest thing anyone can tell me.

Democratic leaders in the U.S. House discuss confiscating 401(k)s, IRAs

SOURCE: http://www.carolinajournal.com/articles/display_story.html?id=5081



RALEIGH — Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration.

Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly.

The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.



oh by the way -

Barack Obama on Wednesday stepped into the role of president-elect, inviting Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill) to join his administration as his White House chief of staff, Democratic officials.

Heh. Didnt think it would start so early.

Originally posted by freelancefool
Why do you want to have someone come to you and say "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." That is the scariest thing anyone can tell me.

Because I work my ass off, and I still cant afford college. I'm paying taxes you know? Don't preach to me about taking tax money cause I'm paying into it as well.

I'd just like to be able to finish college. Know how hard that is when you are living on your own in a shit economic state (read: OHIO) and having to work 40+ hours a week, and then TRY and pay all the bills, and then pay $8k tuition, and $500 in books, and then try to eat on top of that?

Do you realize how shitty that is?

Now, wouldnt it be nice to get some help for that?

Originally posted by cc8balla

Originally posted by freelancefool Why do you want to have someone come to you and say "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." That is the scariest thing anyone can tell me.

Because I work my ass off, and I still cant afford college. I'm paying taxes you know? Don't preach to me about taking tax money cause I'm paying into it as well. I'd just like to be able to finish college. Know how hard that is when you are living on your own in a shit economic state (read: OHIO) and having to work 40+ hours a week, and then TRY and pay all the bills, and then pay $8k tuition, and $500 in books, and then try to eat on top of that? Do you realize how shitty that is? Now, wouldnt it be nice to get some help for that?

Not at the price of having to give up alot of the freedoms we enjoy now.

How will your 30k+ college degree feel when you cant find a job because employers have the shit taxed out of them? Or when your selected trade now makes 25% less because they are taking YOUR money and giving it to people who did nothing but wake up and "try" to find a job? Or work dead end jobs because they know they will be given things they dont deserve?

Originally posted by cc8balla

Originally posted by freelancefool Why do you want to have someone come to you and say "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." That is the scariest thing anyone can tell me.

Because I work my ass off, and I still cant afford college. I'm paying taxes you know? Don't preach to me about taking tax money cause I'm paying into it as well. I'd just like to be able to finish college. Know how hard that is when you are living on your own in a shit economic state (read: OHIO) and having to work 40+ hours a week, and then TRY and pay all the bills, and then pay $8k tuition, and $500 in books, and then try to eat on top of that? Do you realize how shitty that is? Now, wouldnt it be nice to get some help for that?

Because I work 50-60 hours a week every week and have for 4 years now. I do this so that I can afford the things in life that I want. I do this to pay bills. I do this to keep my car on the road. Having 28% of my paycheck lifted from me every single month sucks. I'm tired of paying for other people to do things or be a porch monkey so they don't have to get a job.

What if we went back to the Reagan era? 22% taxes on the top tier of the tax bracket and less taxes on the working middle class. A 10% increase in pay would help me out a lot right now. It wouldn't cost my employer anything. Hell, we would possibly get pay raises if taxes went back that low because there would be more money circulating in the economy.

Any time that you increase the amount of capital spent in government you remove that much money out of the private sector and it stifles economic growth.

Do you realize how shitty that is?

Originally posted by freelancefool
Because here is the problem with this. When you say 'It'd be a good thing for them', you have now infringed on their rights. You have made a choice that effects someone else. That removes the freedom to do what you personally want to do. Now when every kid in America says hey I am going to do this and get free money, they can do 100 hours and get this $4000 tax credit indefinitely. That means Joe Drunk who wants to go to college and party can do so on my tax money. Why should I be forced to pay taxes to send someone else to school? You think it is ok to lift money from my pocket so that you don't have to work to achieve the same things that I have in life? Why do you want to have someone come to you and say "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." That is the scariest thing anyone can tell me.

Annd this is different from America today..... how?

Goverment controls many aspects of our lives. Its illegal to smoke where we want to, drink wherever we want to, not wear a seat belt, drive a certain speed. Sure, these are all logical (mostly) laws to have, for our own safety, but its still the government coming in and saying "It'd be a good thing for them".

As for using your tax money to help people who are a waste of space? That happens all the time. Look at how much we spend just protecting ILLEGAL immigrants. This idea is nothing new, just expanding on old ideas... =(

Originally posted by EclipseSix

Originally posted by freelancefool Because here is the problem with this. When you say 'It'd be a good thing for them', you have now infringed on their rights. You have made a choice that effects someone else. That removes the freedom to do what you personally want to do. Now when every kid in America says hey I am going to do this and get free money, they can do 100 hours and get this $4000 tax credit indefinitely. That means Joe Drunk who wants to go to college and party can do so on my tax money. Why should I be forced to pay taxes to send someone else to school? You think it is ok to lift money from my pocket so that you don't have to work to achieve the same things that I have in life? Why do you want to have someone come to you and say "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." That is the scariest thing anyone can tell me.

Annd this is different from America today..... how? Goverment controls many aspects of our lives. Its illegal to smoke where we want to, drink wherever we want to, not wear a seat belt, drive a certain speed. Sure, these are all logical (mostly) laws to have, for our own safety, but its still the government coming in and saying "It'd be a good thing for them". As for using your tax money to help people who are a waste of space? That happens all the time. Look at how much we spend just protecting ILLEGAL immigrants. This idea is nothing new, just expanding on old ideas... =(

Big government does control more aspects of my life than I would like. That is why I am looking for a much smaller government where people are held accountable. Look at what New Jersey just passed. People will vote on new spending for the government. This sounds like a great idea, except now no one will be held accountable when a new housing project has cost overruns or doesn't work. The agency in charge of the blunder will just say the people voted for the money and it wasn't enough. More government waste.

Reagan had it right 20 years ago and no one seems to understand how an actor did what he did.

Originally posted by freelancefool
When you say 'It'd be a good thing for them', you have now infringed on their rights. You have made a choice that effects someone else.

Preface: Clay, we've met in person. Don't take this personal. Just speaking my mind on the subject...

Clay, you are exactly right, but here's the rub: There has to be a line drawn somewhere between the rights of the individual and the rights of the country. Call it socialism if you like, but there's a vast difference between implementing policies which encourage public service to a demographic which is degenerating into self-serving, irresponsible pieces of shit. We've had an entire generation bring about the finger-pointing without personal responsibility, which has been the single most devastating blow to our society as a whole.

Call me a socialist if you like, but I'm all in favor of the government requiring people to actually get off their asses, turn off the "reality" TV and give something back to their community. If the people are too lazy or unmotivated to contribute, then maybe the government should be looking to find ways to encourage activism. Everyone is so quick to talk about their rights, but if you let any damn fool have the "right" to be lazy, slovenly, irresponsible, and unwilling to do their part to help their country, then you will eventually reach a point where you have anarchy. Rights are tempered with what is best for the country.

Similar to the bits in Starship Troopers where they would say "Service guarantees citizenship." Barely half the people eligible to vote actually voted. I bet half the ones who did vote didn't bother to read any of the propositions and all that; they just watched it on TV. Everyone heard about the Howard Stern bit where they asked all the people in Harlem who said they were voting for Obama what they thought of his choice of Sarah Palin and they all said they agreed without batting an eyelash. Maybe there should be a policy wherein only the people who get off their asses and do something for their country or otherwise aren't complete fucking idiots have the right to vote. If half the eligible voters in the country can't be bothered, than it's obviously not that important to them. Take the right away and make it the fucking-a privilege it really is.

Rights are basic things like freedom of religion and the right to bear arms. We don't let blind people or drunks drive because driving is a privilege. Why should we allow mindless twats to vote? Hell, why should we allow them to breed, either? Our country is too important and precious a thing to leave in the hands of morons and half-wits.

People who prattle on and on about how their rights have been trampled here in the country that defines the word freedom for the rest of the world make me sick. Give it a fucking rest already. Try running your mouth with that line anywhere in the world and see how long it takes for your family to disappear or, at the least, have a government employee give you a smack upside the head with a warning to "knock it off, already."

Simple fact of the matter is, our society, in general, is becoming less and less intelligent and showing less and less responsibility. I'd rather have little socialistic parallels here and there now than a dictatorship later. We've become a society of people more concerned about me-me-me. Everyone has their precious "rights," but the courts are too busy considering the "rights" of fat fucks to not be put to sleep like an unwanted dog because he's fat, or the "right" to not be burned by hot coffee when you spill it while driving. Everyone has the "right" to pretty much anything they want. There's a lawyer or special interest group that will stand up for these "rights" today, but doesn't the country have rights too? Shouldn't America have the right to not be full of complacent, irresponsible fucktards? Shouldn't America have the right to require people who enjoy the freedoms and liberties associated with living in America to actually help out and pay it the fuck forward?

Hell, I want to write to Mr. Obama and ask if I can get $4k towards my student loans despite having graduated already. I mean, seriously, if you could get $40/hr serving food at the local shelter or picking up trash at your neighborhood park, or just doing some real GOOD in your own community, wouldn't you want to do that? Don't just cut taxes for the middle class. Don't cut ANYONE'S taxes unless they get out there and do something for America.

As Churchill said, this is a time of consequences. To keep America strong, we need Americans who believe in their communities, and their country, enough to step up and do their part. Service guarantees citizenship.

Originally posted by DR1665
Simple fact of the matter is, our society, in general, is becoming less and less intelligent and showing less and less responsibility. I'd rather have little socialistic parallels here and there now than a dictatorship later. We've become a society of people more concerned about me-me-me.

Pared it down for you. Good read B :thumbsup Well put.

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by DR1665 Simple fact of the matter is, our society, in general, is becoming less and less intelligent and showing less and less responsibility. I'd rather have little socialistic parallels here and there now than a dictatorship later. We've become a society of people more concerned about me-me-me.

Pared it down for you. Good read B :thumbsup Well put.

Heh. Thanks, Mark.

Paring it down further...

Person good. People suck. Fuck people.

Brian, I understand your point. I volunteer my time to help my community here. If I spend time at the food bank sorting goods, or at the park rebuilding walking paths, or picking up trash on the side of the road sponsored by a local group here in town. I may not always volunteer my time as much as I would like, but I give when I can.

I do this as an effort to help those without as much as I have because I feel that I should help where I can. I'm not being forced to do this, so I do it with joy. As soon as someone steps in and tells me that I am required to do something like this, I can promise you I will do the absolute least amount of time that I can do because it is now being forced on me and I have no choice. This is the difference.

As far as rights of our country, we were founded with a limited government in mind. I do not care what anyone else thinks, coming from a tyrannical king with far reaching powers, our forefathers established this country with a decentralized system of government. They knew the effects of large central government.

On your last point Brian, you are right about most people being clueless about the issues at hand on the ballot. There were I believe three proposed amendments out here that I did not vote on one way or the other because I was a bit hazy on how they would affect me. The other proposed amendments that I understood and knew what was going on I voted on. I feel that when we do vote that we need to cast a vote only when we understand what is going on. I just wish there was some way that you could teach other people this kind of responsibility on a large scale. Don't vote the party line. Understand the issues and vote on them.

Driggs, I respectfully don't think you could be any more wrong on the matter. This is kind of a cop out, but I think you (everyone, actually) should read John Stuart Mill's "On Liberty". It's just a short article that clearly outlines the liberty of people from a utilitarian perspective.

Originally posted by burntheblobs
Driggs, I respectfully don't think you could be any more wrong on the matter. This is kind of a cop out, but I think you (everyone, actually) should read John Stuart Mill's "On Liberty". It's just a short article that clearly outlines the liberty of people from a utilitarian perspective.

No sir, it's YOU that is wrong. Until you produce that delicious Quizno's Prime Rib Cheesesteak sandwich you still owe me from like five years ago, you and I are sworn enemies and I will argue with you to the DEATH!

:P

It might sound socialistic, but I think that everyone (ESPECIALLY people 18-24, these days) could benefit from 1-2 years of mandatory service. Young people these days (For the most part) lack discipline and anything resembling a work ethic. How many of us actually perform any sort of public service? The reason our freedom is kept safe is because of those who have spilled their blood and given their lives for our freedom. I think that a mandatory service would do wonders for the people of this country.

Before anyone asks, no, I have never served in the military. Not that it matters, but, I was brought up in a military household. I appreciate the self-sacrifice that our troops make. I can't say I agree with the war in Iraq, but that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by KaptainMyke
This violates the 13th amendment of our constitution.

In Butler v. Perry in 1916, the Supreme Court ruled that the military draft was not involuntary servitude.

Many countries have mandatory service.

Good luck trying to get any Congress to pass this bill. Odds are 100:1 even if Barack Obama were to pass it. (He won't).

The world is not ending now that Barack Obama is president. I can almost guarantee you all that you won't even notice a difference.

The most important right, the right to bear arms, is the one that I will call upon if legislation like this ever passes.

Originally posted by burntheblobs
Good luck trying to get any Congress to pass this bill. Odds are 100:1 even if Barack Obama were to pass it. (He won't). The world is not ending now that Barack Obama is president. I can almost guarantee you all that you won't even notice a difference. The most important right, the right to bear arms, is the one that I will call upon if legislation like this ever passes.

Let us hope you are right. I'm not saying anything otherwise or stating any opionion whatsoever.

I am just merely "putting it out there" for you guys to read and plant in your minds. Just take all this for what it's worth and just be more watchful around you and the news.

If you don't like what's going on, make as big of a stink about it as possible. Most people say and do nothing, but if you complain to those in office, and enough other people do it, they'll change their tune.

At leat, one can hope.... I'd hate for this country to go too far down the wrong path and I have to go to plan B.

Originally posted by VX100
If you don't like what's going on, make as big of a stink about it as possible. Most people say and do nothing, but if you complain to those in office, and enough other people do it, they'll change their tune. At leat, one can hope.... I'd hate for this country to go too far down the wrong path and I have to go to plan B.

Mmm... I believe this to be 100 % BS Only way for U.S Gov to push hard for the draft is if USA goes in World War III.

My father told me this when I turned eighteen which he and my grandfather both served in Vietnam at the same time. So I hardly doubt this will happend.

I'll believe it when I see it and read it. I'm going to read those links you guys post about this thread an will response back.

I've read that site, it states Obama will ASK NOT FORCE evryone from 18-42 to serve.

Originally posted by dalesmitsu
I've read that site, it states Obama will ASK NOT FORCE evryone from 18-42 to serve.

They changed it. They changed Change.gov from "required" to "setting goals for"

I'm sick of how this country is so lazy and incompetent and not watching the news around them. You try telling any of this stuff to your fellow American and they just stare at you like your crazy.

Did you also hear that the CREDIT CARD giant American Express is now converted into a federal BANK?

WHAT THE FUCK? How much more of this shit are we going to stand for?

Yup, we are completely fucked.

EXCLUSIVE: Agenda disappears from Obama Web site

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/11/exclusive-obama-deletes-agenda-from-transition-web/

EXCLUSIVE:

President-elect Barack Obama over the weekend scrubbed his transition Web site, deleting most of what had been a massive agenda for his first term that appears on his campaign's site.

Gone from Change.gov are the promises on how an Obama administration would handle 25 agenda items — from Iraq and immigration to taxes and urban policy — which the campaign first laid out on the Web site www.BarackObama.com.

This is BULLSHIT is what it is.

SOURCE: http://www.infowars.com/?p=5828

Considering the emotional zeal of Obama’s kool aid drinkers — frighteningly on display as Obama swept the election — there will likely to be no shortage of recruits to enthusiastically enforce his decrees, actually decrees passed down by the globalist New World Order.

In a historical sense, this is fascism on steroids.

Addendum

Obama’s crew have reworded the text on the “America Serves” area of the Change-gov website. The word “require” has been removed, probably as a result of criticism, and other passages have been rewritten. Does this mean they no longer believe you should be a slave on an Obama work brigade? Hardly. Joe Biden has said “rich” people making over $250,000 need to work more for the state, not directly but by surrendering an even larger share of their personal income through confiscatory taxes, thus revealing a disturbing mentality: the state owns you. It’s patriotic to be a slave.

Originally posted by KaptainMyke
frighteningly on display as Obama swept the election

I don't what Obama has in store for America, but he did not sweep the election. There were 121 million people who voted in the election this year. In 2004 there were 121 million people who voted as well. 52% of Americans voted for Obama. I would hardly call that a sweep.

I'm not attacking you KaptainMyke. Just pointing out some facts.

Originally posted by freelancefool
In 2004 there were 121 million people who voted as well. 52% of Americans voted for Obama. I would hardly call that a sweep. I'm not attacking you KaptainMyke. Just pointing out some facts.

No offense taken or implied. That was a quote in the link I posted.

I want to know what we're supposed to do about all of this nonsense.

Google Search these phrases because I did:
AIG Vacations
AIG bailouts
Flouride
FEMA camps
FEMA tunnels
JFK II
Federal Reserve refusal to identify loans
Assault Rifle Ban
NWO
Amero
Project BlueBeam
NASA FEMA
NAFTA
NATO
NASCO
North American Union
The Rockefeller family
The Rothschild family
JP Morgan family
Goldman Sachs involvement with world war II
General Motors world war II



When Hitler was appointed in January 1933, Germany was a democracy. Germany had fair elections; nobody had their right to vote abused; there were numerous political parties you could vote for etc. To pass a law, the Reichstag had to agree to it after a bill went through the normal processes of discussion, arguments etc. Within the Reichstag of January 1933, over 50% of those who held seats were against the Nazi Party. Therefore it would have been very unlikely for Hitler to have got passed into law what he wanted.

Hitler had promised a general election for March 1933. This would have been, in his mind, the perfect opportunity for him to show all politicians who opposed him where the true loyalties lay in the German people. In fact, 1932 had shown Hitler that there was a possibility that support for the Nazis had peaked as their showing in the November 1932 election had shown.

One week before the election was due to take place, the Reichstag building burned down. Hitler immediately declared that it was the signal for a communist takeover of the nation. Hitler knew that if he was to convince President Hindenburg to give him emergency powers - as stated in the Weimar Constitution - he had to play on the old president's fear of communism.



Hitler asked Hindenburg to grant him emergency powers in view of the 'communist takeover'. Using the constitution, Hindenburg agreed to pass the Law for the Protection of the People and the State.

This law gave Hitler what he wanted - a ban on the Communists and Socialists taking part in an election campaign. The leaders from both parties were arrested and their newspapers were shut down. To 'keep the peace' and maintain law and order, the SA (the Brown Shirts) roamed the streets beating up those who openly opposed Hitler.



Doesn't anybody else think the world is acting like it's 1935-1940? The Reichstag fire was much like our "modern day post 9/11 society". The Weimar Constitution is our "Patriot Act".

Originally posted by KaptainMyke
Doesn't anybody else think the world is acting like it's 1935-1940? The Reichstag fire was much like our "modern day post 9/11 society". The Weimar Constitution is our "Patriot Act".

So....

You are comparing Hitler to President Bush?

Since pretty much all the shit that's happening today, STARTED with the Clinton administration, and then the fire was nutured, and eventually allowed to rage out of control under the Bush administration.

Ya'll gotta remember, Obama isnt even in OFFICE yet, this is still the Bush administrations shitshow. I'll say it again, Im not an Obama supporter, but I WILL respect the office of the president, and in doing so giving him a chance.

Originally posted by cc8balla
So.... You are comparing Hitler to President Bush?

I am comparing the events 70 years ago to today.

actually, I changed my mind. I am saying that President Bush's grandfather was a Nazi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush

It's a known fact that the Centralized Union Bank was founded and invested by Nazi Regime.

Gerald Ford knew Prescott Bush was a Nazi.

Originally posted by KaptainMyke

Originally posted by cc8balla So.... You are comparing Hitler to President Bush?

I am comparing the events 70 years ago to today.

Ahh ok. Just clarifying :D

I'm against the government ever dictating how I spend my time.

Maybe the generation growing up is dumber than ever. Maybe that's because the media never talks about REAL role models, it just shoves hollywood, consumption, and sports down their throats from day 1. TV is a tool of the elite IMO. Was it Karl Marx that said religion was an opiate of the masses? I don't believe its religion, I think it's TELEVISION. Misinformation designed to make everyone blind and complacent, and remove critical thinking skills from the majority of voters.

The most self-centered generation is definately the baby boomers. They spend and spend and spend, they actually had to borrow from my generation and several in the future. $10 trillion dollar national debt gee thanks bye!

I honestly believe that has to do with people not having to sacrifice anything growing up. My parents grew up relatively poor. There were many nights when they went to sleep hungry because there was nothing to eat. They just did not have the money to do so.

Today, they have a nice home, savings, retirement plans and I did not have to go through what they went through. Granted, I wasn't given everything. I got a truck from my grandfather that I put close to $3k of my own money into so that it would be reliable while I drove it. My brother got a more reliable car for about the same money.

We both learned the value of money through hard work. Cutting lawns, clearing land by hand (while they were building the nice house they have now), splitting firewood, painting, etc. We were paid for the work we did. If I wanted to go out on Friday night and didn't have money, my dad would give me $30 but I had to bust ass around the house that weekend to pay him back.

Being given your desires without having to work for them will breed complacency and a sense of entitlement.

Originally posted by freelancefool
Being given your desires without having to work for them will breed complacency and a sense of entitlement.

Oh so true, and it happens waaaaay too much these days. What happened to good ole fashioned discipline, an ass-whoopin', and getting taught a lesson to learn from? It doesn't happen as much as it should anymore.

As for EZ's comments, I couldn't agree more. I've said this before, and I'll say it again...

TV = HOMOGENIZED OBLIVION.

Originally posted by DR1665 Rights are basic things like freedom of religion and the right to bear arms.

And I'm sure we're all familiar with his voting record and views on the right to bear arms. You better believe I'm stocking up while they are still legal.