Sure shocked me. I just cannot understand all the press about it being "F1's loss" and that JPM is to be praised for going to a series where "real racing" happens. I don't buy for a minute that it was by choice, more "jump before being pushed". If a spot was available in say a Renault or a Ferrari, he would definitely not have bailed.


While there are many (many many) problems with the current state of F1, I fail to see any of the supposed attractions of Nascar. For example:

- The constant re-setting of the race with full course cautions is ridiculous. Why don't they just have 3 or 4 short "sprints", and just have the driver with the highest average position be declared the winner? Same problem in CC, btw. I don't watch IRL, so can't comment on that.

- There seems to be just as much politics in NC as F1, just maybe they are a little less flamboyant.

- AFAIK, the series is just as tighly controlled by the powers that be as the Bernie Max show is.


Anyway, I think JPM is probably just more suited to the bumper-car world of NC, where coming into other contact with other cars is actually considered acceptable. I do think that the crashes are honestly considered as a key draw of the carefully market-researched "auto-tainment" Nascar package they saturate the airwaves with. They keep people following the action (and the eyeball time for their advertisers) by dangling forth the prospect of watching a multi spinning-car pileup, somewhat akin to those I remember watching enthusiastically on CHiPs when I was a little kid. I can't touch other drivers in my car on the street, or even if I was at an open-track session, so why should that be an acceptable feature of a racing series? I don't see it happening in CC, ALMS, Touring Car, etc, either.


Back to JPM. There can be no doubt he has talent. I personally won't miss him much. While he has done some brilliant moves, others have been more along the in style of Ta-kamikazi Sato... ;)

</rant>

Disclaimer: I do not think that the NC drivers themselves are without talent. I just think it is sort of like comparing two kinds of airplane pilots; those who fly a DC-10 for Fedex and the others an F-22 Raptor...

juan

Personally, I dont really care if JPM goes to Nascar. I dont think that he will be successful. I think that his best days were in Champ, or IRL or whatever. He does have talent, but I think that there are better drivers out there.

Not sure if Renault has an opening, but I know that Alonso's contract coming to an end. I am pro Schumacher, so I think that anyone else sucks, but thats just me being a fan.

On another note, I heard that Jeff Gordon drove an F1 car, and was looked at cause he was only 1.5-2.0 seconds off the pace of some of the top guys. I dont think that he will make the jump to F1 EVER. Jeff said that he was pretty much at his limits when he was driving the F1 car.

F1 STILL rules ALL motorsports, with Rally a close second IMO.

actually, Montoya just signed with Gnassi for '07 in a "Dodge Charger". At least he sort of stays under the Mercedes banner:

- DaimlerChysler owns Dodge
- DaimlerChysler is parent company of Mercedes-Benz
- Montoya's F1 team was McLaren Mercedes
- DaimlerChrysler has 40% shareholding in McLaren


It was widely held that Gordon could have actually done very well in F1 had he made the switch. He and Monty swapped cars for a few laps in '03. But being 31 at the time, he would have been too old to really get up to speed in time. Especially in this day of 25 y/o World Champions...

That, and those last few seconds, or tenths of seconds, is what F1 is all about...

Anyways, hopefully Pedro De La Rosa will fill his shoes well.

juan

Hence I love the WRC... If your shit breaks, you betta get it to pits, learn to fix it, or move out of the way.

Here's another news report of a possible move to Nascar by Villenueve

Another F1 refugee might slip down the NASCAR escape-hatch, according to reports.
Tuesday 11 July at 21:13

Barely a day after Juan Pablo Montoya announced his decision to swap grand prix racing for the world of oval-based tin-tops, it has emerged that fellow former Indy 500 winner Jacques Villeneuve's recent comments about NASCAR might also be kosher.

NASCAR team Roush Racing's president Geoff Smith told the US media that representatives for the BMW-Sauber racer have made 'probing' enquiries, while another former world champion, DTM runner Mika Hakkinen, attended a recent race in the States. ''I just feel it in the air,'' Smith was quoted as saying by Sports Illustrated. ''They're poking around.''

35-year-old Villeneuve, meanwhile, told the Toronto Sun News: ''Going to NASCAR might not be such a bad career move. ''I would not consider it a step down.''gmmf1 dailyf1news.com

www.dailyf1news.com

They're going where the money is. In this case, it's in fat, sweaty, ignorant rednecks' back pockets - worn, leather wallets with Harley Davidson logos on chains to belts suffocating under hairy guts unrestrained by the West Coast Choppers t-shirts from the clearance racks at Wal-Mart.

Personally, I bet they see NASCRAP as easy money. I mean, these are the finest drivers in the world. They're accustomed to precision driving and turning BOTH directions on UNBANKED corners at 200mph. Aside from having a hard time understanding the moronic dribble that constitutes "DIE-uh-lek" among that slipshod section of American culture, I doubt they will have any trouble driving clunky sedans in circles for hours on end.

I will add, however, one other thought. If F1 whithers and dies, resulting in the spread of NASCRAP to other parts of the world, eventually becoming the pinnacle of world motorsport, I will take action to take over the world, Moonraker style.

/rant

Now is the time for all motorsport enthusiasts in America to seek out and support grassroots rally in their area. Express your interest in the finest driving on the continent and shout it from the mountain top! Viva la Prole-le-Ralliat!

It is indeed a saad sad day. As I'm from colombia JP was one of my main reasons for staying up at all hours of the night to watch F1. This move while shocking is not really that unbelieveable after thinking about it. He did not do much last year, and this year he is also not really acomplishing much. He decided that if he could not get a contract signed with a team that had some good chances of competing for the championship, that he would look elsewhere (he is not getting any younger) so he was offered a chance by the same person he really got started with.
Not sure how he will perform in Nascar, but it sure as hell will not make me watch it lol.

It's also possible that Nascar is trying to bring in drivers of different nationalities to try and reach non-American audiences.

Here are some actual demographics for NC:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=476206

I don't think it's fan base is quite as gap-toothed and cousin'-lovin' as it may have been. You do have to give kudos to the organizers though; they are definitely doing a better job marketing it than any other big race series is doing.

But I still won't watch it. Ever.


JV's been dropping hints about going to NC for a while now (JPM sure pipped him out of being first to do that), but I really hope it does not happen. LMP, ALMS, DTM or even a return to CC would be a more honourable choice IMO. And not those fugly Rolex GrandAm cars either. I actually get really annoyed and agitated every time I see one of those awful looking things on the tv.

juan

He doesn't have a ride next year. Simple as that. He's not even driving in the French GP. And I'm sure NASCAR made it real easy for Ganassi to sign him - he'll be the first full time non-white driver in the sport. Think about that for a second. I was a big JPM fan, but over the last two years he has really not impressed me. He drives with his heart and not his head, so he ends up throwing away sure wins, and wrecking lots of other cars. He'll fit right in with NASCAR.

As far as JV is concerned, he needed to hang up his gloves awhile ago IMO. And the day Mika rolls off at Talledega, I'll trade my Evo in on a Honda.

Originally posted by 992gnt
sure NASCAR made it real easy for Ganassi to sign him - he'll be the first full time non-white driver in the sport.

I think he might go by the name "John Paul Montoya", just to keep it a little more palatable in those Minutemen states... ;p

juan

Some things I'd suggest:

- drop the 1 engine for 2 race weekends rule. These motors only need to hold together for quali and 1.5 hours of racing. To make that any longer is probably just as expensive. Keep long term reliability the domain of enduro racers.

- free testing on early saturday. Then, quali times are set one at a time, and every car given a fixed amount of fuel to do it with. Just enough for say 3 laps + 1 warmup & cooldown lap. Draw the running order randomly. Have the cars monitored, and the ones not on flying laps be under the control of a "qualifying marshal", who can patch in and command a slowing driver to not be in the way. Harsh penalty for non-compliance.

- return the importance of mechanical grip by putting more restrictions on the aero. The penalty of losing downforce when getting behind another car is a main factor of the lack of passing. It would also make the cars look better, IMO.

Firsly, disallow all those ridiculous little appendages on the sidepods. Next, the front wing should only have a max of 3 horizontal elements, and they must go either full width or from the center to the endplates. Basically, get rid of those silly little winglets like this:


- I am uncertain about the "push-to-pass" button where the ECU allows the rev limit to be raised a few times per race. They use it in CC i believe, but I don't follow that closely enough to know if it has worked or not.


Other ideas?

juan

Originally posted by juan
I am uncertain about the "push-to-pass" button where the ECU allows the rev limit to be raised a few times per race. They use it in CC i believe, but I don't follow that closely enough to know if it has worked or not. Other ideas? juan

I actually follow champ car pretty close. The push to pass works well in champ because they are turbo charged and because every car has the same powertrain. I'm not sure it could work in any other series because the powertrain is completely different so there would be plenty of squabbling about who gets in terms of how much further past the rev limit they can go on what engine.

As for all the drivers jumping ship to Nascrap ... well it's not just drivers from F1. Nascar is trying to get Sam Hornish (though he'd probably fit right in) from IRL as well. Honestly, I can't see the attraction in Nascar unless you like carburated, bumper crashing, two first names for a name driving, only have turn one way, and boring circle racing. And the cars ... why do they even bother saying this is a monte carlo, this is charger, blah blah. Its not even close to any of those. What would make Nascrap interesting was if it ACTUALLY was a monte carlo, and charger. Just heavily modified like in GT1 or GT2 like in Le Mans.

Originally posted by Avenger
And the cars ... why do they even bother saying this is a monte carlo, this is charger, blah blah. Its not even close to any of those. What would make Nascrap interesting was if it ACTUALLY was a monte carlo, and charger. Just heavily modified like in GT1 or GT2 like in Le Mans.

Exactly. I'd watch actual "stock" cars race. Let the big three put their money where their mouths are. Get a pack of Monte Carlos, Tauruses, and Grand Prixs out there in showroom stock condition. Load them up with decals and let 'em rip. Then watch as, after an hour of 115mph "hot laps" they all DNF due to mechanical problems, leaving only the Camry to carry on for academic purposes.

They don't even have to be modified. If your cars are the best, they will show it on the track. This NASCRAP bullshit has got to stop. Fucking ignorance.

The fucking "machine" called Nascar needs to hit turn 1 and die!!!!

F1 and Rally are sooooo much better than any other racing out there. Some may argue that technology takes the "driver" outta the racing equation, when in actuality, it makes a great driver faster. JPM didn't fare so well, and I think that it took its toll on his F1 career. He had/has talent, but in his case, he wasnt able to keep the pace with other top drivers. MAYBE, the "driver" is still in F1 afterall.

TURN LEFT!

Originally posted by 95greenhrcgs
The fucking "machine" called Nascar needs to hit turn 1 and die!!!! F1 and Rally are sooooo much better than any other racing out there.

Quoted for greatness!

one aspect to add here is that the level of safety and crash-worthiness in modern racing machines honestly lets some drivers get aways with these "smash-up derby" driving styles. Go back 20 years and you wouldn't see some of the ham-fisted overtly aggressive moves people pull these days, cos they knew that they stood a pretty good chance of not walking away from an incident. Some guys now will absolutely intentionally drive their car into another one, or if not, make it no better than a game of chicken like they used to do in those 50's teen movies.

Monty's f/u in the last race would have been a lot more serious had Heidfeld been seriously injured in that cartwheel crash.


Here is a (the?) classic example of real racers going at it:
http://www.joga.com/VideoView.aspx?videoDocId=14059770555801451649
(Villeneuve vs Arnoux, '79 French GP)

juan

Absolutely. F1 is about the man AND the machine. To make racing about the driver alone, it must be a spec series with limited technological development. I like that too, such as in GP2. But I also want to see the apex of competition be between different groups of talented engineers. Different levels of execution and planning strategies are also key.

I thought last year was great, with the better pace and consistency of Renault against the greater raw performance of McLaren.

juan

Last year was a much better season. Even though Schummi is still in it, I don't seem to care (not a fan though of him though). The rest of the field is so uncompetitive it's not fun to watch. I only watched the race until the first pit stops to see if Alonso was running more fuel. When he stopped I was ready to go home.

Anyone watch the race today? That was boring. Can someone actually pass or is this whole series all about pit strategy?

I feel ya on the non-passing. Schumacher was just killing everyone tho. I DID enjoy some of the wrecks, and am happy that the German in the Italian car won and not the OTHER GUY Alonso.