Give a number you know they can't touch. Don't even make a reasonable number don't go off of sticker price either. The trick is giving the number you know they can't touch and be prepared to walk out the door if they dont make it. Trust me they will do anything to get your business that day. They will always ask what can we do today to earn your business. I almost bought an Acura TSX for $4k under the sticker price and this was a brand new 06' fully loaded black with black leather except navigation. This was a car that goes quick to so usually they wont settle alot less on a car they know they can sell to someone else. But thats the best info I can give you. Walk in with a number in your head you expect they wont be able to give you.