heres the deal. I know almost nothing about suspension. I have eiback pro kits (or which ever are the lowest drop ones..) with tokiko shocks and have been into the tire shop (les schwab) numerous times over the past 4 1/2 years for "suspension" and "camber realted issues". I have had 4 alignments (5th one tomorrow) and had some "rear toe adjustment thing" replaced last year because of alignement issues. the shop installed the drop kit and did front camber work at that time as well, whcih i'v had no issues with (the front).

where im at right now is, i was told last year when the "toe thing" was replaced that i needed a camber kit. i sat on it and didnt do anything untill now. I notcied my pass. side rear tire is bald on the inside (i knew it was wearing, i could see the off camber-ness of it just looking at it). So i did the $15 camber mod.

well, when i got under there i found both sides shimmed already, which tells me someone had to do camber work on there before me...

Some questions:

1. is it normal to have that much suspension work and alignments needed in a 4 year period with all parts shop installed (professional???)?

2. can camber adjustments wear out that fast? can they cause me to need that much work done in the time frame alreaduy listed?

3. can i go out of alignment that fast in the rear when i have done nothing to it?

4. should the shop have been able to anticipate/correct alot of this stuff long before now?

im asking all this stuff because it seems "not right" to have this much work needed and so much "stuff" not anticpated by the shop, causing me to be on my 5 aligniment from adding camber parts. im going to confront the shop if my suspisions are confirmed.
does this just seem a bit excessive?

help.
thanks

There probably are just not enough washers to bring it back into the ideal reange of the correct amount of camber. Idealy you want between 0 and -.25 deg camber. positive and any more negitve than that and you loose grip and see excessive tire ware, exp on wider tires.

Depending on the drop there is only so much a shop can do with washers in the rear. It is also abotch to adjust and then see were the cambers at and then add more washers. then test and see where cambes at and then add more washers. The probably just guess where it should be at and just left it, but i don't know i wasn't there.

It really sounds to me like you need to start understanding better what you are paying people to do to your car or you will continue to have problems like this. If you are going to spend on the money on parts you need to start spending the time to understand what the changes will do to your car and what other systems they will affect.

i sugest Fred Puhn's book to you call "how to make your car handle" i got it on amazon for only 5 dollars new. it should help you understand your issues.

good luck, i hate adjusting camber too!

You have alot questions so I'll do my best. Unless you live on shit roads, I'd say your adjustments should stay from year to year unless you do a crazy amount of driving. Rear toe most of the time can only be fixed by replacing parts. If he saw that toe was out, he should have just stopped, and just charged for a 2 wheel alignment. The $15 camber mod to us, should be a regular way of adjusting camber for the rear for any ASE tech with a brain. That could be why you have shims there. Your questions:
1)Nope

2)No, unless you travel shit roads, aim for potholes, or like to destroy ball joints for fun.

3)see above

4)YES! If the tech has eyeballs, and esp if he's aligned the car 2x's before, he should anticipate any problems unless he's a fucking moron.

Camber doesn't "wear out". Other parts around the adjustment do. Ball joints don't crap out overnight, neither do tie rod ends, or any other suspension that are driven normally. I've seen blown apart suspension parts. Shit like that rarely happens on the way to work just all of a sudden. Basically your tech is retarded and you should do your own work. Watch them align a car. If it takes more than 30 minutes with any sort of new equipment. Ask them to stop, get the car off the lift, call him retarded, and leave. I can do almost any type of car in 20 minutes and I'm not that good at it. If you live near me, PM me and I'll make sure that it's done right.

thanks guys..

you should need an alignment every year, Ive seen alignment go out of spec in 6 months, its all about where you drive and just a couple bad bumps can mess with alignment

IMO you have all the parts, now just get it aligned correctly, look at their print out of your specs, you will see what needs adjustment.
get it aligned (camber and toe) and you should be fine till next year.

Camber isn't what douches your tires in 5K miles, toe is. When a 2G is lowered, it gains camber (duh - SALA 101), but it also gains considerable toe. If this is not corrected, you will scrub the rubber from the inside of the tire to the outside in a hurry.

If you can see that your camber is off, it isn't shimmed enough. I think that I would get a proper camber kit on there so that you aren't using an inch of washers. I don't care what grade the bolt is, it can't be a good thing to put that much shear load on 4 smallish bolts.

The "toe thing" that was replaced last year was probably the toe control arm. Most likely, both of them. The bolt likes to seize to the bushing sleeve. Turning the cammed bolt will turn the bushing before the bolt breaks loose. The only fix for this is a sawzall, a new toe control arm, and a new bolt. I did the sporty thing, though, replacing the bolt, and putting a prothane bushing in the arm. :thumbsup

Keep coming with the questions. I do my own alignments, using two oiled plates as slip plates (bearings? We don't need no stinkin' bearings!), string, straight rods of varying length, and a measuring tape. I don't recommend this for everybody, though. It's just hard (around here, at least) to get a tech to put an alignment as "out of spec" (factory spec) as I want it.

yeah if you drive you car pretty rough like I do you'll probably need wheel alignments more often. Another thing that causes bad alignment is hitting something. I've had a lotta suspension work because I've hit curbs and mountain sides. So if you bend something you'll out of alignment, hopefully it won't be so bad where you need to replace something.

also for the front you might want to check out your tie rods to see if they have any play. That can make toe kinda drift.

Originally posted by ryansiefring
There probably are just not enough washers to bring it back into the ideal reange of the correct amount of camber. Idealy you want between 0 and -.25 deg camber. positive and any more negitve than that and you loose grip and see excessive tire ware, exp on wider tires.

-1.66° ± 1/2° is spec for rear camber. More negitive camber = MORE grip on corners, downside being less straight line stability, (and more steering wheel effort for front camber).

With Eibach Sportlines, which is what you have (not Pro Kits) if they are the lowest Eibachs like you said, using the $25 Ingalls Xtreme rear camber kit (grade 10.9 fender washers & bolts) I used 3 washers for each bolt (each washer being 1/4") for my sportlines to put me exactly at -1.6° of camber, perfect.

Camber should NOT change unless you bend something (past an elastic bend, which is called a plastic bend), or you shred a bushing. Toe is more suspectable to being off via play in the pinion and tie rods.

The Sportline Woes... I hear ya, Tim. Fortunately for me, this is only my first year with them installed. Since April and this is what happened to my tires... Just did the old DIY $20 camber mod tonight and will be taking her in for toe adjustment/alignment ASAP. Sorry for the large pictures, but I feel they are relevant.



I just used four of the grade 10.9 flat washers for each 10.9 bolt. Still appears a bit inside at the top, but I'll take it in and get it checked out within the month.

One of the oldest threads I can remember from here had someone posting pictures like this and saying, "I don't rag my tires." Neither do I, but Sportlines without proper camber/toe adjustments are murder on tires. Good thing these are just cheapies that came with the wheels. I'd cry if this was a set of 8 month old Ecstas or Azenis. :thumbsdown